Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California, #3

[IQuestion]

It is impossible to talk about Rebecca Zahau's death without talking about Max's as well.[/QUOTE]

Max and Rebecca's deaths are intwined forever, since Rebecca took her life just about 40 hours after Max was fatally injured. Dina was at Max's bediside at Rady's ICU the evening and early morning of Max's death. That is what we were discussing, and then others took it to Dina's lawsuit with Jonah - also not part of this thread discussion.

It is impossible to talk about Rebecca Zahau's death without talking about Max's as well.

LL2, Maybe you wrote the sentence that I BBM'd in Red above, mistakenly? The WDS is not about where Dina was on the evening and early morning of Max's death....it is where Dina was on the evening and early morning of Rebecca's death. I just wanted to get that part right, ok? (sometimes I type a post and realize I have made an error and then it is too late for me to edit.)

 

[MzOpinion8d]

When Dina Shacknai gives her evidence to the Judge, the case will be DISMISSED with PREJUDICE. On October 9. Mark my words.

No one will be writing a check...except maybe for the Defeat Zahaus when they have to pay the Defendants legal costs.

I thought that was supposed to have happened on May 1, but I guess the judge decided to keep the case going and waste everyone's time and money til October instead?

 

[MzOpinion8d]

IT was REBECCA ZAHAU's FAULT that Max died. PERIOD.

But didn't the SDSO, whom you so faithfully believe in regarding their conclusion of Rebecca's cause of death, rule that Max's death was accidental?

 

[*Lash*]

Excellent interpretation, Lash-- and thank you for digging up the references to the Rady surveillance CDs. I remember how delighted I was to learn that the surveillance recordings are STILL AVAILABLE! The way this case has gone, with so much critically important evidence lost or not collected, I had assumed that evidence was gone, as well.

Reading between the lines a little further, I think what Dina is complaining about publicly, and in motions, is NOT that the CDs are "unavailable" to her and her attorneys, but that she hasn't been able to "obtain the disks" (from the quote in the above post). (My emphasis and coloring.)

It could be that the disks are "available" to both plaintiffs and defense, and their authorized representatives are to physically hoof their tired backsides over to the evidence storage facility to review them and take notes. But the disks perhaps are NOT "available" for the originals, or copies, to be DELIVERED to the defense team (and perhaps not available to be delivered to the plaintiffs, either.

If that's the case, and I'm correct, either side could designate a representative to review the 27 Rady surveillance CDs, and whatever that side FINDS is their personal WORK PRODUCT-- and protected from disclosure during discovery. Meaning, either side is free to review the evidence in its entirety, but neither side is REQUIRED to tell the other side what they FIND (or don't find). The surveillance camera evidence, in full, is the evidence.

My take on the Rady surveillance disks is that they are preserved evidence, and available for review, but not for sending out, or copying.

The "Border Patrol" part of the comments, IMO, is an attempt on the part of DS and her attorneys to try to find problems or technicalities with the immigration status of Rebecca, Mary, Robert, or Pari Zahau. If the defense can find, or insinuate that there were immigration "problems" with any of the Zahau family members named in the suit, they can try to have the whole case thrown out for lack of standing. Another rabbit hole to go down, to delay the case and harass the Zahau family, IMO.

The Zahau's increasingly sound like they are pretty close to being ready to go to trial, and WANT to go to trial. Dina and her attorneys increasingly sound like they want to do anything possible to prevent going to trial, to delay, distract, and run out the money and the will of the plaintiffs. JMO.

RBBM - I agree. The big question, if Dina has an ironclad alibi or nothing to worry about, why even go down this road? Why spend money on the legal fees to fill out the forms and write letters regarding the Zahau's immigration status if your alibi will clear things up? Seems to be a waste of time and money if there is an ironclad alibi. KWIM?

The word obtain could be significant regarding the CD's. Possibly meaning Dina is unable to obtain copies of the CD's rather than not available to view. However, what do either of these two things have to do with the DOJ? Isn't Dina alleging the CD's are in their custody?

 

[kittychi]

But didn't the SDSO, whom you so faithfully believe in regarding their conclusion of Rebecca's cause of death, rule that Max's death was accidental?

From IQuestion's post yesterday:
Hmmm, This is just an "open post" based on a poster suddenly using the words "under the care of Rebecca Zahau", "under her watch" "fatally injured on her watch"....
I think the change is because.......(this is mind blowing in regards to homeowner's policy and the WDS) " there is wording in the contract that speaks to criminal acts, my spin is there is never coverage for a criminal act as it would be against public policy."
-----

BBM: I notice the change in terms also, there seems to be a new set of talking points from the kitten kamp.

To my knowledge, they have never reconciled their agreement with SDSO on Rebecca's death and their disagreement on Max's. And as IQuestion points out, there has been a change in terms. It looks to me like DS is having to throw everything at the wall to see if something sticks, including the immigration issue (!?).

DS can stop throwing things at the wall if she will just come up with her irrefutable evidence that she was at Rady's during Rebecca's night of terror and death. I fail to understand why she has not already presented this to a judge at any of the hearings already past.

Also, it seems to me that DS's strategy has been two-pronged: 1) Get out of the murder charge and 2) get money out of Jonah. Not necessarily in that order.

 

[justice be served]

From IQuestion's post yesterday:
Hmmm, This is just an "open post" based on a poster suddenly using the words "under the care of Rebecca Zahau", "under her watch" "fatally injured on her watch"....
I think the change is because.......(this is mind blowing in regards to homeowner's policy and the WDS) " there is wording in the contract that speaks to criminal acts, my spin is there is never coverage for a criminal act as it would be against public policy."
-----

BBM: I notice the change in terms also, there seems to be a new set of talking points from the kitten kamp.

To my knowledge, they have never reconciled their agreement with SDSO on Rebecca's death and their disagreement on Max's. And as IQuestion points out, there has been a change in terms. It looks to me like DS is having to throw everything at the wall to see if something sticks, including the immigration issue (!?).

DS can stop throwing things at the wall if she will just come up with her irrefutable evidence that she was at Rady's during Rebecca's night of terror and death. I fail to understand why she has not already presented this to a judge at any of the hearings already past.

Also, it seems to me that DS's strategy has been two-pronged: 1) Get out of the murder charge and 2) get money out of Jonah. Not necessarily in that order.

Second BBM. Yes, fully agree with what appears to be the tactic. Some legacy to leave in your life. Does anyone here think DS will come clean ever? Feel remorse and set the record straight with her soul?

 

[LuckyLucy2]

snipped for brevity.
LL2[/B], Maybe you wrote the sentence that I BBM'd in Red above, mistakenly? The WDS is not about where Dina was on the evening and early morning of Max's death....it is where Dina was on the evening and early morning of Rebecca's death. I just wanted to get that part right, ok? (sometimes I type a post and realize I have made an error and then it is too late for me to edit.)

Thank you, IQuestion! Let me be clear:

Dina was at Max's bedside at Rady's ICU the evening and early morning of Rebecca Zahau's death by suicide.

 

[*Lash*]

Does anyone remember where the info came from claiming Mrs. Luber was with Dina in the ICU that fateful night? I'm asking because even Dina said in her recent statement she WAS ALONE.

“It would be impossible for me to hear any disturbances at Jonah's home as I was with our son alone at a hospital miles away.

Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...nsion-2011-Death-303178091.html#ixzz3a8R4BpTF
Follow us: @nbcsandiego on Twitter | NBCSanDiego on Facebook

 

[LuckyLucy2]

But didn't the SDSO, whom you so faithfully believe in regarding their conclusion of Rebecca's cause of death, rule that Max's death was accidental?

It was not the SDSO that investigated Max's death initially, it was the Coronado Police Department. And they did not do a though job. They did not ever explain how the chandelier link was CUT, or why the scene seemed so STAGED.

And there was no one for the SDSO to investigate after Rebecca Zahau so quickly sent her sister home to Mary Zahau, then Rebecca took her own life rather than face the conequenses

 

[MyBelle]

It is impossible to talk about Rebecca Zahau's death without talking about Max's as well.

LL2, Maybe you wrote the sentence that I BBM'd in Red above, mistakenly? The WDS is not about where Dina was on the evening and early morning of Max's death....it is where Dina was on the evening and early morning of Rebecca's death. I just wanted to get that part right, ok? (sometimes I type a post and realize I have made an error and then it is too late for me to edit.)[/QUOTE]

Sorry for the broken quote but I think the theory of the Z's wrongful death lawsuit is that Max's grave injury that led to the subsequent diagnosis of brain death is what triggered Dina's rage and the murder of RZ. So, Max's injury is very much intertwined in this lawsuit. What the plaintiff's have to prove is that Dina left her gravely injured son's bedside and murdered RZ. I think that will be impossible.



JMO

 

[MyBelle]

According to the Family Court of Maricopa County, Jonah was the LEGAL custodian of Max, not Rebecca. Max died in Jonah's house: JONAH is responsible!

Fortunately, that's not the way it works. A parent is not held criminally responsible for the negligent actions of a caregiver while their child is entrusted to their care. Doesn't matter if the caregiver is girlfriend, grandpa or Kindercare.

Civil litigation is different. The decision a parent makes about who they entrust to care for their children can have civil consequences such as wrongful death.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Excuse me, but Max was under the care of Jonah. Rebecca was not Max's mother, merely Jonah's girlfriend. If Dina had objections to Rebecca "baby sitting" Max, she should have taken it up with Jonah and/or the Maricopa County Family Court. My guess is that she voiced her dislike of Rebecca being involved with Max to Jonah, but Jonah blew her off.......what happened to Max was not Rebecca's fault: what ever happened was in Jonah's house, and apparently he was just fine with Rebecca watching Max. IMO, Dina should be pressing Jonah for the whereabouts of his older children and himself that morning rather than be blaming the woman that Jonah left her for.

BBM. Please post a link that supports going to court at that point was even possible. I don't believe a parent has any legal basis to take issue in court with who the other parent chooses to have babysit their child during the other parent's "parenting time" unless there is tangible proof the third-party is unfit, such as a conviction for drugs or on a state registry for child abuse. I know the baby-sitter convicted in the murder of Cash Bell should have been on the radar of a child referral service and wasn't, which has resulted in a civil lawsuit against the service.

JMO

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/...nst-childcare-referral-company-303359001.html

 

[kittychi]

BBM. Please post a link that supports going to court at that point was even possible. I don't believe a parent has any legal basis to take issue in court with who the other parent chooses to have babysit their child during the other parent's "parenting time" unless there is tangible proof the third-party is unfit, such as a conviction for drugs or on a state registry for child abuse. I know the baby-sitter convicted in the murder of Cash Bell should have been on the radar of a child referral service and wasn't, which has resulted in a civil lawsuit against the service.

JMO

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/...nst-childcare-referral-company-303359001.html

WHO among us has not had our eyes off of a child for a minute when that child was getting into something, or near a stairwell or any one of 100's of things that endanger a child around a home. Our family has been very lucky to have avoided tragedy, but it is not because we had our eyes on the children all of the time!!! Max was not a toddler or a special needs child, after all.

We know that DS did a background check on RZ since that is obviously where the shoplifting information came from. Apparently "tangible proof the third-party is unfit" does not include shoplifting.

How hypocritical of DS to expect RZ to have her eyes on 6-year-old Max constantly, but she, herself was late picking him up and could not be found or awakened for hours after his accident.

But this brings us back 'round to the WDS. IMO, DS had it "in" for RZ from very early on in the JS/RZ relationship and Max's accident put her over the edge. Whether it was RZ's fault or not, she was blamed and paid with her life.

 

[K_Z]

Hmmm, This is just an "open post" based on a poster suddenly using the words "under the care of Rebecca Zahau", "under her watch" "fatally injured on her watch"....
I think the change is because.......(this is mind blowing in regards to homeowner's policy and the WDS) " there is wording in the contract that speaks to criminal acts, my spin is there is never coverage for a criminal act as it would be against public policy."

Read more: http://www.insuranceclaimhelp.org/home-insurance-claims/#ixzz3a3eeaQY4
So, in a nutshell, Dina can not collect money for injury if she continues to pursue Max's death as a "criminal act."??? Right? I guess the money paid to Judy Melinek to keep repeating the definition of homicide kind of back fired on the homeowners claim. So in order to settle the homeowners claim.....a person would have to go along with "NO CRIMINAL ACT" in order to settle with the insurance company for big dollars." Isn't that "irony on steroids"....and the insurance company would probably insist the plaintiff sign a "white paper" of nondisclosure on the AMOUNT OF MONEY they received..... Well, well, well....that is an interesting thought.
If your home was robbed, you are the victim of a crime (robbery)and you have to make a police report in order to be reimbursed for your loss. But no insurance will reimburse you for a criminal act, that can not be proved.
I'm just thinking out loud here, but that would mean ONE CAN NO LONGER CLAIM REBECCA'S ACTS WERE CRIMINAL IN ORDER TO COLLECT FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANY.....hmmm??? And who said "WDSs" are just about money? For instance, the parents of a woman shot in her home, by her husband, can not collect from the homeowner's insurance company on a WDS, because the actions of the homeowner (ie the husband) was a willful criminal act. right?
Likewise, to receive compensation for injury to a child, the plaintiff would have to drop the criminal component (ie willful act) and now agree (outwardly at least) in order to collect under a homeowners insurance company.

IMO, there was possibly an "easier" way for Dina to try to get Jonah's homeowner's insurance to pay out for damages-- and that would be to demonstrate that the staircase railing was not up to code/ dangerous, and contributed to Max's fatal fall.

That still would have been tough fight, but a heckuva lot more "objective" than SUBJECTIVE and unprovable claims of negligence by anyone there, IMO.

I never really understood why Dina didn't pursue the inadequate/ faulty railing angle? Granted, it would mean publicly abandoning her vendetta against Rebecca and her sister, because now "the railing" would be at "fault".

But it seems like that angle, the railing, would bring in more money for her than her current strategies. Lawsuits and related travel and activities have become a way of life for Dina. Even with her big divorce $$ award, I suspect she is under some financial pressures these days-- especially since she doesn't work, and has no other apparent source of income.

 

[IQuestion]

LL2, Maybe you wrote the sentence that I BBM'd in Red above, mistakenly? The WDS is not about where Dina was on the evening and early morning of Max's death....it is where Dina was on the evening and early morning of Rebecca's death. I just wanted to get that part right, ok? (sometimes I type a post and realize I have made an error and then it is too late for me to edit.)

Sorry for the broken quote but I think the theory of the Z's wrongful death lawsuit is that Max's grave injury that led to the subsequent diagnosis of brain death is what triggered Dina's rage and the murder of RZ. So, Max's injury is very much intertwined in this lawsuit. What the plaintiff's have to prove is that Dina left her gravely injured son's bedside and murdered RZ. I think that will be impossible.

JMO[/QUOTE]

MYBELLE, The actual line you cited as being a "quote" from me is incorrect. The actual quote is from LuckyLucy2 and it was post #560...
and I have included "her entire quote" so that you can see the origin of the comment. I know it is tough when we "slice and dice" comments out of context.....I have probably, unknowingly, done that a few times myself. I have bolded the entire post from LL2, so you can see its true origin. Thx IQ

LuckyLucy2
LuckyLucy2 is offline Justice 4 the Shacknais and Romanos

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Max and Rebecca's deaths are intwined forever, since Rebecca took her life just about 40 hours after Max was fatally injured. Dina was at Max's bediside at Rady's ICU the evening and early morning of Max's death. That is what we were discussing, and then others took it to Dina's lawsuit with Jonah - also not part of this thread discussion.

It is impossible to talk about Rebecca Zahau's death without talking about Max's as well.

The last line above is from LL2's post, not mine.......although I sometimes have the same thought, I can not claim it as my own.

 

[coastal]

IMO, there was possibly an "easier" way for Dina to try to get Jonah's homeowner's insurance to pay out for damages-- and that would be to demonstrate that the staircase railing was not up to code/ dangerous, and contributed to Max's fatal fall.

That still would have been tough fight, but a heckuva lot more "objective" than SUBJECTIVE and unprovable claims of negligence by anyone there, IMO.

I never really understood why Dina didn't pursue the inadequate/ faulty railing angle? Granted, it would mean publicly abandoning her vendetta against Rebecca and her sister, because now "the railing" would be at "fault".

But it seems like that angle, the railing, would bring in more money for her than her current strategies. Lawsuits and related travel and activities have become a way of life for Dina. Even with her big divorce $$ award, I suspect she is under some financial pressures these days-- especially since she doesn't work, and has no other apparent source of income.

I seem to remember something was different about those railings, too - but I don't remember the details. DOh. Cooking dinner so I can't look back now, but I'll BBL.

Anyway, I agree.

 

[Morag]

E-n-t-w-i-n-e-d

 

[K_Z]

Does anyone remember where the info came from claiming Mrs. Luber was with Dina in the ICU that fateful night? I'm asking because even Dina said in her recent statement she WAS ALONE.

“It would be impossible for me to hear any disturbances at Jonah's home as I was with our son alone at a hospital miles away.

Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loca...#ixzz3a8R4BpTF
Follow us: @nbcsandiego on Twitter | NBCSanDiego on Facebook

Good catch, Lash. Dina certainly never has publicly mentioned Lisa Luber was with her. Remember the "Boy Interrupted" articles?

As we all know, no one is ever "alone" in a PICU. Pediatric hospitals have very sophisticated security surveillance, to protect the children from abduction, abuse, and things like parental custodial disputes. I think Dina was probably intending "alone" to mean that she had no other visitors with her, and hence "no one" to vouch for her presence there, which may be her newest strategy to explain her absence from Rady video surveillance.

However, I tend to not believe a lot of what Dina says, particularly if there is nothing objective to back it up. If she said it was raining, I'd look outside to verify.

It is really not possible for her to have been at Rady for all those hours, and not show up on a single security video. She's not invisible, after all. In her interviews, they would have asked her how she arrived to Rady-- did she drive? Where did she park? Which door did she enter? Which route did she use to get to PICU? How many times did she go in and out of the PICU doors? What did she eat? Where did she eat it? How many times did she use the bathroom? Which bathroom/s did she use? Etc. Etc. Etc. Believe me, the areas outside the entrance doors to intensive care units at every hospital are meticulously recorded. If she was there-- she would have been recorded. Period, end of discussion.

IIRC, the subpoena for the Rady surveillance included 24 hours before and after the time period they were interested in. If Dina is not on the 27 Rady security CDs of video, and the Sheriff says she was NOT, that is an enormous hurdle for her to overcome.

We do know from her own interviews that she had extended gaps in her visitation pattern in the hours and days after Max was admitted. She was not camped out at his bedside continuously after admission. So, it may not have seemed out of the ordinary to staff for her to be gone from PICU the night of Rebecca's death. I still think Max's records will have some info there about her presence/ absence, other visitors, information about Max's care and prognosis that was shared by docs with them, etc.

It would be an academic point if not for the following morning’s grisly discovery. Dina says she got the news at the hospital. “Jonah was sobbing. He said ‘Rebecca killed herself,’” Dina recalls. “I didn’t know what to say. I was like, ‘I’m so sorry.’ My next thought was ‘Why would she do that? Max is going to be fine.’ I still believed he would be OK.”

As Dina was leaving the hospital, a Coronado police detective paid her a visit. “Are you aware what happened?” he asked.

“Yes, it’s awful,” Dina answered. Later, at her home, two more detectives asked Dina what she thought about Rebecca’s death. She was in a hurry to return to the hospital to view the results of Max’s MRI. “They said something like ‘Is this related to what happened to Max?’” she recalls. “And my first thought was: ‘What are you suggesting? That somebody hurt Max on purpose? That somebody harmed Rebecca?’… They were intimating [foul play].”

http://www.phoenixmag.com/Valley-News/boy-interrupted.html

BBM. Dina made a number of trips away from the bedside in Rady PICU.

 

[Inparadise]

Fortunately, that's not the way it works. A parent is not held criminally responsible for the negligent actions of a caregiver while their child is entrusted to their care. Doesn't matter if the caregiver is girlfriend, grandpa or Kindercare.

Civil litigation is different. The decision a parent makes about who they entrust to care for their children can have civil consequences such as wrongful death.

JMO

I have a relative on the Maricopa County Superior Court Bench......that is the law........the homeowner is responsible. <modsnip>

 

[MyBelle]

Sorry for the broken quote but I think the theory of the Z's wrongful death lawsuit is that Max's grave injury that led to the subsequent diagnosis of brain death is what triggered Dina's rage and the murder of RZ. So, Max's injury is very much intertwined in this lawsuit. What the plaintiff's have to prove is that Dina left her gravely injured son's bedside and murdered RZ. I think that will be impossible.

JMO

MYBELLE, The actual line you cited as being a "quote" from me is incorrect. The actual quote is from LuckyLucy2 and it was post #560...
and I have included "her entire quote" so that you can see the origin of the comment. I know it is tough when we "slice and dice" comments out of context.....I have probably, unknowingly, done that a few times myself. I have bolded the entire post from LL2, so you can see its true origin. Thx IQ

LuckyLucy2
LuckyLucy2 is offline Justice 4 the Shacknais and Romanos

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Max and Rebecca's deaths are intwined forever, since Rebecca took her life just about 40 hours after Max was fatally injured. Dina was at Max's bediside at Rady's ICU the evening and early morning of Max's death. That is what we were discussing, and then others took it to Dina's lawsuit with Jonah - also not part of this thread discussion.

It is impossible to talk about Rebecca Zahau's death without talking about Max's as well.

The last line above is from LL2's post, not mine.......although I sometimes have the same thought, I can not claim it as my own.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the clarification. I share LL2's opinion that Max's injury/death does seem to be part of of the Z's theory of Dina's motive. But a theory does need evidence to support it and the Z's will have to disprove her alibi of being at Max's bedside. I still think that the nurse/doctor's notes on Max's chart mention the times when his parents were at his bedside.

JMO