Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California, #3

[K_Z]

But Ann Rule worked exclusively with Anne Bremner, who was the Zahaus' Attorney and Rule's best friend. And Rule had access to ALL the case files. AND she even quotes our own KZ in the book!

The Lefthanded Kitten site is a forum like WebSleuths and not affiliated with Dina Shacknai in any way - so your comparison makes no sense. I suppose you also think the Zahaus are behind WebSleuths since most of the posters in this thread are their supporters?

JMO

Regarding the Anne Rule book, there were a number of errors which were "agreed upon" to be corrected in subsequent printings of the book. (That's my own info-- no link for that. Accept it or reject it as you wish.) The book has not had a second printing, therefore, the errors continue to "stand". AR has passed away. I sincerely doubt there will ever be a subsequent version of her book, or another printing.

There IS concrete evidence linking Dina Shacknai to the kitten forum. Judy Melinek herself has admitted publicly, and in her report, that Dina provided the "connection" to the site, which JM used in her Dina Shacknai-paid opinion piece. So saying there is no connection, is more than a bit disingenuous. It may be your opinion, but it is definitely not a "fact".

And I won't mince words about your term "affiliation". The site in question has about 35 "anonymous members" on the world wide web, according to their site. It's a veritable "needle in a haystack." Courts of law don't consider any forums (especially anonymous comment forums) as any kind of EVIDENCE.

And while we may find Anne Rule's book interesting (or not), it's a popular culture non-fiction piece. What it contains is not evidence, either. It's an opinion/ commentary. Always has been, always will be.

 

[screecher]

Correct K_Z. Also, it ought to be noted, iirc, Anne Rule was in the early stages of dementia while writing Rebecca's horrific murder story.

And regarding the comparison of the filthy litter box forum with websleuths forum? OMG!!! Different realms.

Desperate post, by a poster in desperate times, imo.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Regarding the Anne Rule book, there were a number of errors which were "agreed upon" to be corrected in subsequent printings of the book. (That's my own info-- no link for that. Accept it or reject it as you wish.) The book has not had a second printing, therefore, the errors continue to "stand". AR has passed away. I sincerely doubt there will ever be a subsequent version of her book, or another printing.

There IS concrete evidence linking Dina Shacknai to the kitten forum. Judy Melinek herself has admitted publicly, and in her report, that Dina provided the "connection" to the site, which JM used in her Dina Shacknai-paid opinion piece. So saying there is no connection, is more than a bit disingenuous. It may be your opinion, but it is definitely not a "fact".

And I won't mince words about your term "affiliation". The site in question has about 35 "anonymous members" on the world wide web, according to their site. It's a veritable "needle in a haystack." Courts of law don't consider any forums (especially anonymous comment forums) as any kind of EVIDENCE.

And while we may find Anne Rule's book interesting (or not), it's a popular culture non-fiction piece. What it contains is not evidence, either. It's an opinion/ commentary. Always has been, always will be.

Because Judy Melinik used Lefthandedkitten as a reference does not link Dina Shacknai to the site. That logic is ludicris. If I were to tell someone about RealityChatter, does that mean I have a " connection" to RealityChatter? No. It does not. It means I told someone about the site. That's ALL.

I never said that a forum could be used as evidence (that is just stupid), so not sure why you are trying to twist my words.

Without a link, I will take your information about the "mistakes to be corrected" with a grain of salt. Unless Mary Zahau wanted her to remove all of the unflattering info about "sweet, innocent" Rebecca - like all the men she dated while married to Neil, the shoplifting charge, and the finding of the movie, The Housemaid, and the overly dramatic diary entries. More whitewashing? Now that I would believe. Since you claim they were correcting mistakes, I'm curious, were they going to remove your opinion on Max's injuries?

Ann Rule writes TRUE CRIME, not opinion and commentary. Non-fiction True Crime. Always has been, always will be.

From Amazon.com:

Ann Rule
Biography

I am an author of true-crime books, and I'm now working on my 25th and 26th...

http://www.amazon.com/Fatal-Friends...&qid=1443685593&sr=8-1&keywords=Ann+rule+2013


And it is a FACT that Anne Bremner and Mary Zahau worked with Ann Rule on the book, and that the Zahaus listed the book second, in their list of media on the case in their ill-fated Indigo fund raising campaign. (I know they've had so many it is hard to keep them straight, but this is the one where they wanted to "solve a crime using the Internet" but only raised a piddly 1% of their fundraising goal due to lack of support.)

So while you may find Ann Rule's book just " interesting", the Zahaus seem to stand by it. And I will continue to quote it.

JMO

 

[Jessica2012]

KZ, this is just my opinion, and I am writing very respectfully so please do not misunderstand. Anyone can use any website as a reference. A reference, is not evidence, it may or may not support evidence that is presented. Dr. Cyril Wright has mentioned Websleuths in his interviews. Does this mean that the Zahaus are affiliated with Websleuths? Can you please provide a link where Dr Melenek has admitted publicly that Dina Shacknai provided a "connection" to the site? And can you please provide a link where it states that it was a paid opinion piece? This may be your opinion but it is definitely not a fact.
It was Dr. Melenek's choice to reference the site, no one on the site has anything to do with Dr. Melenek or with Dina Shacknai. No one has ever had communication with them or anyone involved in this case. This is again what you believe but it is not a fact. I doubt that the screen names used on here are anyone's real name, so to me everyone on here is anonymous. KZ, if someone wishes to use your reports as a reference without contacting you, I would not call that an affiliation. Are you affiliated with Ann Bremner or were you with the late Ann Rule? Ann Rule used what you wrote, and even what Robert Mack wrote. The Zahaus stated, after the fact, that there may have been mistakes in the book. Considering that they were the only ones that worked closely with Ann Rule, and she never interviewed the Shacknais' or Romanos', the book contains valueable facts in my opinion. Your work is valueable to everyone fighting for Justice For Rebecca Zahau and not one person can ever dispute that. In the same way the research of other professionals on another site are valueable to those fighting for Justice For Maxie Shacknai- no one can dispute that either.
The point is, that Anne Bremner has stated (I provided the link) that she handed ALL the investigative files to Ann Rule. This is a fact.

 

[K_Z]

New scheduling entry on the San Diego Register of Actions:

226 09/30/2015 Discovery Hearing scheduled for 02/26/2016 at 01:30:00 PM at Central in C-69 Katherine Bacal was vacated.

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/faces/CaseSearch.xhtml

Case Number: 37-2013-00075418-CU-PO-CTL

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Quote from KZ, 10/13/12

Ann Rule's website:

http://authorannrule.com/

"All of Ann's books have been New York Times' bestsellers, with Every Breath You Take and Last Dance, Last Chance, and the current Don't Look Behind You and In the Still of the Night all in the top list at the same time.

Eight of Ann's books have been made into TV movies, and five more are in the works. She won the coveted Peabody Award for her miniseries, Small Sacrifices, and has two Anthony Awards from Bouchercon, the mystery fans' organization. She has been nominated three times for Edgar Awards from the Mystery Writers of America. She was also awarded the Washington State Governor's Award. Ann is active in support groups for victims of violent crimes and their families, in programs to help battered and abused women, and support groups for children caught in traumatic living situations."

Well, if history is any predictor, this book may also make the NY Times Bestseller list.

I hope so.

That would bring a lot of attention to both Max and Rebecca's deaths.

Added: I didn't realize Ann Rule was such a celebrated author till I saw this list of her awards and journalistic accomplishments. I'm even more pleased that she chose to write about Max and Rebecca's deaths. It would be easy for someone to dismiss her work because it is "direct to paperback." But I think this is actually marketing genius. She reaches the widest possible audience in the shortest publishing and production time with this approach. And that rapidly furthers the conversation in the public.

Both the Zahau family and Dina Shacknai are probably celebrating that, on behalf of their loved ones.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Deadly-Neighbors-Ann-Rule-s-Crime-Files/page2

I suppose it is easy for some to dismiss what is in Rule's book when they don't like the FACTS she has written - like the movie The Housemaid being taken into evidence, which has too many similarities to Rebecca"s suicide to be coincidence.

 

[K_Z]

Quote from KZ, 10/13/12




I suppose it is easy for some to dismiss what is in Rule's book when they don't like the FACTS she has written - like the movie The Housemaid being taken into evidence, which has too many similarities to Rebecca"s suicide to be coincidence.

Well, I sure do agree with my old post! Thanks for quoting that again.

I'd never heard of her, or read any of her books before this case. However, Ann Rule WAS a very successful author of popular non-fiction books—there’s little dispute of that, lol! Her books brought her a good income, and a very comfortable life. And her books brought much needed attention to a lot of awful deaths, murders, missing people, etc. Those books are not, and never were intended to be, scholarly forensic reviews of crimes. They are rapidly produced summaries for popular culture consumption. I did read the section on Rebecca and Max’s deaths, and I do think her book brought much needed attention to both deaths. And here we are, still discussing that book section years later! So I guess it was pretty successful.

I don’t give much weight to the Korean movie, but clearly there are a few who do. I think it’s a convenient distraction at best, and more victim bashing and marginalizing of Rebecca, at worst—and I question the circumstances of the “discovery” of the movie as some kind of smoking gun.

One can always find something in movies or books to connect an idea to a real event. Just imagine if Dina had been found to have a copy of “Fatal Attraction” on the front seat of her car, or Cell Block Tango from “Chicago” playing on her ipod? Something like that alone could cause her to be portrayed by some as a bitter ex-wife and a murderer, right? See the connection?

This movie is clearly not going to be given any weight or credibility in a court of law. If this is Dina's plan to defend herself against the accusations in the wrongful death lawsuit, I think that's a pretty foolish plan.

But then again, I don't think People Magazine and an anonymous hate forum should be used as references by a medical examiner paid a very large sum to produce a professionally written opinion. But that's just me! Other opinions vary!

 

[LuckyLucy2]

I definitely disagree with you, The Housemaid is VERY relevant. Fatal Atrration and Chicago have nothing to do with Dina (and you are scraping to even suggest that), but The Housemaid is almost a step-by-step instruction manual for Rebecca's suicide. I take it you have not seen The Housemaid or you would know that.

Sad that you think "victim bashing and marginalizing" should NOT be allowed in Rebecca's case (even when what is being said true), but that it is perfectly fine to bash and marginalize and make up horrible things about the VICTIM of Rebecca Zahau's actions - a MOTHER who lost her only, much loved just-turned-six year-old child in a HORRIFIC accident due to Rebecca's negligence - or worse.

In fact, you are one of the poster's that seems to go out of his or her way to bash this poor woman at every chance. A mother that lost a child. I find that just heartless.

I don't know what plan Dina has for her defense- I don't know the woman - but she won't need any as this will never make it to trial.

Remember, Judge Bacal ordered the Zahaus that they needed to come up with some REAL EVIDENCE for their EIGHTH iteration, not just "belief". They did NOT come up with any evidence (because it never happened).

And Lefthandedkitten is not a hate forum. It has some great information, and true facts - just because you don't like that they believe the SDSO, the FBI, and the DOJ correctly called it a suicide does not make it a "hate forum". LOL!

Is Niecy's blog a "hate forum"' too?

This sham case will be dismissed in February. And I predict the Zahaus will have to pay big time.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

For those posters who are not familiar with it, here is an except from the compassionate and brilliant Niecey456 Weblog:

snipped for brevity. BBM

Rebecca’s death didn’t make a lot of sense to me either. I could not see her doing all of that to herself and being able to pull it off. I could not see how she could have bound her ankles, gagged herself, put a noose around her neck, tied her own hands behind her back and climbed up that rail and hurled herself to her death. It just doesn’t make sense. Again, both deaths have that terrible, impossible rail factor. If Rebecca’s death was not a suicide, then someone knew what they were doing to make it look that way and erase their presence. Yet the way she died signified shame, so it was either hers or someone felt she deserved nothing more. Why do I keep saying shame? Because no woman would want to die like that, especially not when she is menstruating, unless she were deeply depressed and felt shameful and riddled with guilt. [\B]There were a few points that no one could get past in this one that are perceived as impossible. Let’s start with her tying herself up. First, go look at my source of information here as there is a demonstration of how she did it, front and then side views. When you click on the link, scroll down to find the videos of the knot tying, the way they were tied. They were not sailor’s knots.

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/

It should be noted that I read all over the web before I compared everything I found to what the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department had to say. There are a lot more questions that are answered at that site and if I didn’t answer all of your questions with this post, please refer to that site, as the answer is likely there. They do have a “Frequently Asked Questions” link to refer to.

Another is Rebecca being able to go over the rail, bound and gagged, by herself. I am an antique buff. I love historic homes, furniture, etc. There is just one thing about them though, they are not up to codes and standards of today. Spreckels Mansion is a historic home. So I went over to the Sheriff’s Department’s site on the web for this case and found diagrams and pictures. I used the key to figure the approximate height of that rail. This only works if you do not enlarge the photo. The rail looked a bit low to me, as did the door knob on the door behind it. Neither are as high as what is standard today. My best measurement came out to 35″ for the rail, which would be about waist-high on me, as I am under 5′ tall. Rebecca was what? 5’3″? Yes, she could have gone over that rail. It is not standard height (for today) for a second story rail. My porch rail is higher than that and I have a one story built in 2005. It has a wrap around porch, like homes of yesterday. Even though my home has some historic features, they are up to today’s standards, because they had to be. No one (unless they are renovated) goes around and forces people to change rail heights and things of that nature. They won’t even make them change the plumbing and electrical, until or unless they are under repair or renovation. Now all of this said, I did measure my porch rails, which are really decorative more than anything and the bottom of the top rail starts at 35″, but the thickness of it, is almost 2 inches. In my state the rail by code should be at least 36″. I’m not going to get real precise here, but I measured that rail at Spreckels Mansion (by the diagram/picture, using the scale), with what appeared to be foot height on the balcony to the top of the rail, which is not thick at all. Rebecca was about 4 inches taller than I am. I am about 4’11”,but, again 35″ is to my waist. The following is the diagram with the picture. The scale is 1″ = 70″. Do not enlarge it to measure. It must be kept to scale. If that rail came well below her waist, then yes, she could have done that.

I personally did notthink this was an accident/suicide, when I first started researching this case. I totally understood the public outrage and at a point I leaned more toward 2 professional, paid jobs, as disgusting as that sounds (and it is). I just couldn’t figure out how anyone could have preformed the deed or deeds without leaving a trace though. They would have had to have had a hazmat suit on to make that happen, or be a professional hitman or something like that. I could be way off, but one thing I do know is that sometimes, in some cases, things just are not always what they seem at first. You have to have an open mind and understand that all questions have to be answered to come up with a definite outcome. After much research I do believe Rebecca committed suicide and I know that many people do not want to believe that, but the TRUTH is often stranger than fiction and it can be a bitter pill to swallow. In case you are wondering how Rebecca gagged herself without passing out…..You have to understand that many times women have t-shirts that are very long in the torso, so that shorties like me won’t buy them, also many women wear night shirts to bed or over sized t-shirts with boxers or tights to bed as well. She could have done it if it were over sized, really long in the torso or a night-shirt and it still have been her shirt. Another point is Rebecca’s head injuries that appeared to be blows to the head. The railing, as well as the balcony itself are iron. It does not give. Those likely happened when she went over the rail.

What if the Sheriff’s Office is right (and I believe they are) and everyone else that will not let it go is wrong and this was an accident/suicide? Who wins if that is all that can be found and this has been kept going for years? No one.

32 years ago Azaria Chamberlain, a 9 day old baby was snatched out of her family’s tent in the Australian outback, by a dingo dog and it took all of these years to finally come to the conclusion that the dingo did it, after the parents were jailed and scrutinized and the public went viral over it. What finally proved the case? More children were attacked by dingos, some were killed.

What a shame it took 32 years and so much public scrutiny to figure this out. I don’t think anyone will be happy if they can drag this case out like that, especially if in the end, after all of the hurt and anger, the conclusions are the same.

http://niecey456.com/2012/06/18/the-max-shacknairebecca-zahau-cases/

 

[BBL]

Please don't post other people's random (outdated) blogs as fact. There are a number of things to be disputed. #1 being that it came out later that these are in fact "sailors" knots and were much more complicated than what the sheriff's office tried to pass off.

I'll state again that if I were the Zahau's attorney, I'd ask for a deposition of AR's editor and subpoena her drafts, notes and any third party communication. That is how we would find out about the magic of the movie appearing, among other things.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

As it is a blog, I'm sure most people here are smart enough to know it is Niecy's opinion.

Funny, but I seem to recall you are ok with posting Vahail's outdated blog as fact. Can't have it both ways.

The Zahaus have ALL of the investigative files, and, IMO, know Jonah told LE about the movie and how Rebecca identified with the main character, Eun-yi. There was no "magic". The movie was Rebecca's.


JMO

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Quote from KZ, 10/13/12




I suppose it is easy for some to dismiss what is in Rule's book when they don't like the FACTS she has written - like the movie The Housemaid being taken into evidence, which has too many similarities to Rebecca"s suicide to be coincidence.

Let's compare:
The movie character was a maid
Rebecca wasn't Jonah's maid

The movie character hung herself from a chandelier
Rebecca was found hanging from a balcony

The movie character wore clothes during her suicide
Rebecca was unclothed

The movie character didn't bind her own hands and feet
Rebecca's hands and feet were bound

The movie character loved the child
(Per your opinion LL2) Rebecca didn't like Max, and may have intentionally harmed him or allowed her sister to

The movie character was jealous of the man's ex-wife
Rebecca had nothing to be jealous of - Jonah certainly didn't seem even remotely interested in Dina

Yes, now I can see it so clearly...they're exactly the same!

 

[bourne]

Let's compare:
The movie character was a maid
Rebecca wasn't Jonah's maid

The movie character hung herself from a chandelier
Rebecca was found hanging from a balcony

The movie character wore clothes during her suicide
Rebecca was unclothed

The movie character didn't bind her own hands and feet
Rebecca's hands and feet were bound

The movie character loved the child
(Per your opinion LL2) Rebecca didn't like Max, and may have intentionally harmed him or allowed her sister to

The movie character was jealous of the man's ex-wife
Rebecca had nothing to be jealous of - Jonah certainly didn't seem even remotely interested in Dina

Yes, now I can see it so clearly...they're exactly the same!

Thanks MzOpinion8d, this made it patently clear that Rebecca and her murder is NOTHING like some video investigators NEVER mentioned was found or taken as evidence per its absence on the multiple search warrants at the Spreckels mansion. I strenuously believe the video was brought up by someone like Dina who attempted to plant the evidence in the Spreckels but somehow never succeeded and likely ended up "pushing the book" onto Ann Rule prior to Rule's book's publication in order to throw a red herring into Rebecca's heinous murder.

 

[bourne]

Please don't post other people's random (outdated) blogs as fact. There are a number of things to be disputed. #1 being that it came out later that these are in fact "sailors" knots and were much more complicated than what the sheriff's office tried to pass off.

I'll state again that if I were the Zahau's attorney, I'd ask for a deposition of AR's editor and subpoena her drafts, notes and any third party communication. That is how we would find out about the magic of the movie appearing, among other things.

Agreed. At least Valhall was an aerospace *scientist* with a bonafide professional degree and registered state license in a scientific field who used the scientific method, logical reasoning and deduction and inductive skills to draw evidence-based, scientific conclusions.

 

[*Lash*]

No...Niecey456's Weblog is NOT a hate forum. Niecey simply opined on Rebecca's case. Her opinion may differ from mine and I respect we have the right to disagree. Niecey's blog is a well diverse blog which does NOT contain threads dedicated to bashing/mocking posters from other forums. Niecey would not allow such hate on her blog. Niecey has class and doesn't attack posters from other online forums.


Yes...LHK is a hate forum. LHK has multiple threads dedicated to mocking posters from other forums. One example is a thread titled "Zing". The thread attacks posts/posters by mocking and even stoops to name calling. Threads created for the sole purpose to bash posters, that is hating. My opinion that LHK is a hate forum has nothing to do with their belief Rebecca committed suicide. Just like Niecey, they have a right to a differing opinion. I believe it is a hate forum because of the threads dedicated to bashing online posters, Rebecca and her family. It is clear vitriol, absolutely unnecessary and adds nothing of value to either case.

 

[BBL]

As it is a blog, I'm sure most people here are smart enough to know it is Niecy's opinion.

Funny, but I seem to recall you are ok with posting Vahail's outdated blog as fact. Can't have it both ways.

The Zahaus have ALL of the investigative files, and, IMO, know Jonah told LE about the movie and how Rebecca identified with the main character, Eun-yi. There was no "magic". The movie was Rebecca's.


JMO

I have not, even once, posted anything about or from Vahail's blog. Yet another completely wrong statement from you.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

^ Well, you certainly didn't complain about it.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

opcorn:Bold text by me, LuckyLucky2

Let's compare:
The movie character was a maid and a babysitter
Rebecca wasn't Jonah's maids
Rebecca left her job in Jan. 2011 to take care of Max and keep the house.

The movie character hung herself from a chandelier and jumped from a balcony
Rebecca hung herself from a bed leg and jumped from a balcony

The movie character wore clothes during her suicide
Rebecca was unclothed
Nudity in suicide is associated with extreme guilt. The character Eun-yi had nothing to feel guitly about.

The movie character didn't bind her own hands and feet
Rebecca's hands and feet were bound
Instead of setting herself on fire, Rebecca bound her hands and feet to make certain she did not survive.

The movie character loved the child
(Per your opinion LL2) Rebecca didn't like Max, and may have intentionally harmed him or allowed her sister to
Rebecca acted like she loved Max, and strangely called him her own son. the character Eun-yi even says to the child, "I wish you were my child."

The movie character was jealous of the man's ex-wife
Rebecca had nothing to be jealous of - Jonah certainly didn't seem even remotely interested in Dinaa
Jonah had married Dina and they had child together - something Rebecca would never have, but desperately wanted.

Yes, now I can see it so clearly...they're exactly the same!
Perhaps you shouldn't say that till you have seen the movie like I have, as it is too similar to ignore. Why else was it taken as evidence?

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Thanks MzOpinion8d, this made it patently clear that Rebecca and her murder is NOTHING like some video investigators NEVER mentioned was found or taken as evidence per its absence on the multiple search warrants at the Spreckels mansion. I strenuously believe the video was brought up by someone like Dina who attempted to plant the evidence in the Spreckels but somehow never succeeded and likely ended up "pushing the book" onto Ann Rule prior to Rule's book's publication in order to throw a red herring into Rebecca's heinous murder.

Riiigghhht. Blame everything on Dina. The mother of a dead child due to Rebecca Zahau's negligence.

There has been so much HATE speech for this victim of Rebecca Zahau here. Makes me wonder why people would HATE Max's mother so much, when she was no where near the mansion when Rebecca hung herself. She was at Rady's with her critically injured son.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Agreed. At least Valhall was an aerospace *scientist* with a bonafide professional degree and registered state license in a scientific field who used the scientific method, logical reasoning and deduction and inductive skills to draw evidence-based, scientific conclusions.

:floorlaugh: Rigghhht. As evidenced by the ridiculous video she made where she tries to fall over her kitchen chair. Some "scientific" conclusion!