Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California, #3

[MyBelle]

BBM. Detail below to expand your thinking.........

The time of death on the autopsy report that indicates 6:48 a.m. coincides with the 911 call Adam made to report the death. That in no way indicates that Rebecca actually died at 6:48 a.m. They are “calling” it at that time is all. In fact, Adam indicates he found her at 6:30 a.m. and she was clearly dead at that point.

Rigor mortis was present in her jaw, when paramedics arrived in short order. And this definition of rigor mortis means she died at least 3 hours prior if not more:

Rigor mortis - commences after about 3 hours, reaches maximum stiffness after 12 hours, and gradually dissipates until approximately 72 hours (3 days) after death.

Rebecca did not die at 6:48 a.m. It could have been as much as 12 hours prior.

Since Rebecca was found by Adam at 6:30 a.m., the arrival of the medical examiner was 12 hours, 45 minutes after Adam found her dead. Rebecca was lying all day in the sun with no cover over her. To think that an initial examination by the medical examiner 12 hours and 45 minutes after finding her dead is going to be accurate is simply absurd as well.

But, to your point, yes, she was called as dead at 6:48 a.m. but could have been dead as much as 12 hours earlier. That 12 hours computes to 6:30 p.m. the night before. The night that both twins were at the Spreckles mansion. One by admission (Nina) and one by witness account (Dina).

And the Zahaus have the right to know the whereabouts of the defendants from that point forward because Rebecca could have been killed from 6:30 p.m. onward the night before. Let's not confuse the issue and keep the forum on track.

BBM. This is not true. And no, there is no "right" to know personal information about any of the defendants from Wednesday 6:30 pm onward. This lawsuit is only about the wrongful death of RZ and her TOD is listed as 06:48 on Thursday. If rigor was just setting in her jaw, her death was not 10-12 hours previously.

RZ was not "clearly dead" when Adam cut her down which is why CPR was started. Your misinformation doesn't expand my thinking. CPR was only discontinued after EMT detected rigor in the jaw. The Judge can only go by the ME's report, not the fanciful theories postulated by the attorneys for the Plaintiffs and a witness that LE didn't find credible but I doubt this case ever makes it to trial.

Perhaps this will help you better understand the rigor process. Fairly straight forward in layman's terms.

JMO

Rigor mortis begins within two to six hours of death, starting with the eyelids, neck, and jaw.

Read more: http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rigor-Mortis-and-Other-Postmortem-Changes.html#ixzz3eIum4Ipk

 

[screecher]

... it is not unusual for parents, mothers especially, not to leave the ICU while the child is in critical condition.


JMO

I did not imply Dina NEVER left the ICU

snipped

It certainly looks like an implication to me, in that first quoted post, for sure

That's your spin, not mine. The only time in question for me is the time surrounding RZ's death which is noted on the ME's report to be 6:48 AM.

JMO

Absolutely no spin on my part, MyBelle. Perhaps a bit of :back: on your part?

Oh, and why in the world would you think Rebecca stop breathing and her heart stopped beating at 6:48 AM?????

 

[justice be served]

Rebecca's death could not have taken place "tweleve hours before she was found". The Medical Examiner's report estimates the time of Rebecca's death by suicide at between 1 a.m and 3 a.m on the morning of July 13th.


http://sdsheriff.net/coronado/


In their implausible accusations, the Zahaus' accuse Dina and Nina of being at the mansion a little after 10 p.m on the night of the tweleth.

Nothing before that time is relevant to this case.

Since Rebecca was found by Adam at 6:30 a.m., the arrival of the medical examiner was 12 hours, 45 minutes after Adam found her dead. Rebecca was lying all day in the sun with no cover over her. To think that an initial examination by the medical examiner 12 hours and 45 minutes after finding her dead is going to be accurate is simply absurd. I believe that documented fact will most definitely play into the Zahaus replay of the "investigation" and will have weight on determining TOD.

 

[MyBelle]

Note my post above on time of death. There is no question that the defendants will need to prove their whereabouts prior to when Adam called to report Rebecca's death and to suggest otherwise is simply an attempt to derail the thread.

I'm fairly confident the sheriff has already proved the defendants whereabouts and the ME is confident in his ruling of suicide.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Absolutely no spin on my part, MyBelle. Perhaps a bit of :back: on your part?

Oh, and why in the world would you think Rebecca stop breathing and her heart stopped beating at 6:48 AM?????

No, my comments have always been about RZ's time of death which took place on Thursday morning, not Wednesday night. You are repeatedly attempting to misrepresent them. The topic of the thread is the wrongful death lawsuit. To prevail in a wrongful death action, the Plaintiffs must prove the defendants caused the death.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Rebecca's death could not have taken place "tweleve hours before she was found". The Medical Examiner's report estimates the time of Rebecca's death by suicide at between 1 a.m and 3 a.m on the morning of July 13th.


http://sdsheriff.net/coronado/


In their implausible accusations, the Zahaus' accuse Dina and Nina of being at the mansion a little after 10 p.m on the night of the tweleth.

Nothing before that time is relevant to this case.

Yes, the ME's report takes Wednesday, July 12th totally off the table. The report also notes that RZ apparently knew MS wasn't going to survive and she killed herself after learning this information.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

<modsnip>

There is nothing difficult to understand about this suicide. A little boy suffered horrific injuries while in RZ's care and doctors were suspicious and reported it to CPS. She likely would have faced a very grueling criminal investigation.

I appreciate the information you have provided. Thanks!

JMO

 

[screecher]

If she were only asking for Dr. Malinek's documents, I suppose one could deduce that Dina wanted them for many reasons. Since Dina is asking for all the documents for all the guests, it doesn't seem reasonable that she is just doing it to see if Dr. Malinek double-charged.

IMO, it is much more reasonable to beleive she wants all the documents to fight the false charges leveled against her, in a case that was ruled a suicide.

Just scrolled upthread, found this...last sentence bbm. Now why in the world would Defendant Dina want/need all of those documents to fight the so-called false charges? All she needs to do is provide proof she was with her son during the time in question! After all, she did say she was with Maxie. Seriously.

Jonah has proof, was quickly proven he couldn't have murdered Rebecca.

Defendant Dina? Nope.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

snipped

There is nothing difficult to understand about this suicide. A little boy suffered horrific injuries while in RZ's care and doctors were suspicious and reported it to CPS. She likely would have faced a very grueling criminal investigation.

JMO

And it is likely that Jonah Shacknai, who loves\ed his children more than anything, (according to everything we know about him), would have cut Rebecca out of his life entirely after Max's accident - whether she was found responsible by CPS, or not.

JMO.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

MyBelle, do you think that Rebecca intentionally tried to make her suicide look suspicious? If so, what are your theories on why?

TIA!

 

[MyBelle]

MyBelle, do you think that Rebecca intentionally tried to make her suicide look suspicious? If so, what are your theories on why?

TIA!

My theory is by that point in time, JS was aware MS would not survive and was very angry at RZ and had told her to clear her stuff out of his house. He chose to stay at a hotel rather than sleep at home even though he went to the mansion to get his stuff.

I think RZ's intent of her suicide was to not just to implicate JS but to also embarrass him which is why she chose full nudity outdoors. As the ME report notes, her wrist easily slipped from the wrapping and if she had committed suicide in the house, she may not have been found for days. I think she wanted to be "saved." Adam tried and as a thanks for his effort, her family accuses him of murder.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

And it is likely that Jonah Shacknai, who loves\ed his children more than anything, (according to everything we know about him), would have cut Rebecca out of his life entirely after Max's accident - whether she was found responsible by CPS, or not.

JMO.

I agree with your take on the situation. I think the least LE can do is reopen the homicide investigation into MS' death.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I think proof that Dina was with her son will only become public when the defendants file defamation lawsuits against the Zahou's. The Sheriff certainly seems willing to give to provide the information according to that request for a court order and the affidavit.

JMO

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I agree with your take on the situation. I think the least LE can do is reopen the homicide investigation into MS' death.

JMO

So you think the SDSO is wrong in their conclusion of Max's death, but right in their conclusion of Rebecca's?

 

[KALI]

Division, and the San Diego Sheriff's department.

Personally, I was blown away by their ineptness.
My personal experiences, are that the L.E. in San Diego, do NOT listen.

 

[justice be served]

Division, and the San Diego Sheriff's department.

Personally, I was blown away by their ineptness.
My personal experiences, are that the L.E. in San Diego, do NOT listen.

We now know what a stellar job SDSO did on the McStay murders [sarcasm]. I'm sorry to hear about your own unfortunate experiences.

 

[justice be served]

I agree with your take on the situation. I think the least LE can do is reopen the homicide investigation into MS' death.

JMO

Wrong thread.

 

[screecher]

....and kindly refrain from misrepresenting mine, too.
I actually find, after reading your posts, I am more diligent than ever in researching the subjects you appear to know so much about. For instance, the location and purpose of security camera's at Rady's. If it were not for your brilliant contributions, I would have never known about Wayne Bleyle, the 26 year old respiratory therapist who worked there, and arrested. And if it were not for your brilliant contributions, I would have never known about the arrest of Chirstopher Irvin, the 32 year old nurse...(both who were arrested for child , photographing children at the hospital and Irvin inappropriately touching an unconscious child.) http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/30/9/1795.full
And, I would have never known the extraordinary changes and serious efforts Rady's has taken to protect their patients, today. They have state of the art surveillance and every employee attends lengthy orientations in that regards.
BTW, What is your opinion on the use of CELL PHONE CAMERAS TO TAKE PICTURES OF UNCONSCIOUS PATIENTS????
Do you think that is against hospital policy?

Excellent and informative post, IQuestion! To jump off your second to last sentence...and after snapping those pics, plasters one of the all over MSM. UGH

 

[MyBelle]

So you think the SDSO is wrong in their conclusion of Max's death, but right in their conclusion of Rebecca's?

I don't know that the SDSO ever really investigated Max's death.

 

[screecher]

...

Nina did admit she was at the house on Wednesday evening but there is no evidence that she or anybody else entered the residence or was there at the time of RZ's death on Thursday @ 06:48

JMO

I'm only interested in facts. Wrongful death lawsuits ALWAYS take into account the time of death. There must be real evidence presented that the defendant was the proximate cause of the death. RZ didn't die on Wednesday, July 12. Insisting Nina and Dina must prove their whereabouts on the day BEFORE RZ died isn't going to impress a Judge and is why this case will get thrown out.

JMO

BBM. This is not true. And no, there is no "right" to know personal information about any of the defendants from Wednesday 6:30 pm onward. This lawsuit is only about the wrongful death of RZ and her TOD is listed as 06:48 on Thursday. If rigor was just setting in her jaw, her death was not 10-12 hours previously.

RZ was not "clearly dead" when Adam cut her down which is why CPR was started. Your misinformation doesn't expand my thinking. CPR was only discontinued after EMT detected rigor in the jaw. The Judge can only go by the ME's report, not the fanciful theories postulated by the attorneys for the Plaintiffs and a witness that LE didn't find credible but I doubt this case ever makes it to trial.

Perhaps this will help you better understand the rigor process. Fairly straight forward in layman's terms.

JMO

Rigor mortis begins within two to six hours of death, starting with the eyelids, neck, and jaw.

Read more: http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rigor-Mortis-and-Other-Postmortem-Changes.html#ixzz3eIum4Ipk

No, my comments have always been about RZ's time of death which took place on Thursday morning, not Wednesday night. You are repeatedly attempting to misrepresent them. The topic of the thread is the wrongful death lawsuit. To prevail in a wrongful death action, the Plaintiffs must prove the defendants caused the death.

JMO

Yes, the ME's report takes Wednesday, July 12th totally off the table. The report also notes that RZ apparently knew MS wasn't going to survive and she killed herself after learning this information.

JMO

BBM

WOW. MyBelle. Where are you getting all these differing dates from?

I guess you aren't aware Rebecca Zahau was found dead on Wednesday morning, July 13, 2011?

:thud::drink::thud: