Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California

[Gilgamesh]

I believe the cases are totally different. For Max's accident, only thhe CPD investigated, and by the time the Doctors at Rady's had called Child Protective Services, Rebecca Zahau had already sent her sister- the only other witness home - and then hung herself later that night/early next morning. So there were no polygraphs, and all the evidence had been at the house and had possibly been tampered with by Rebecca by the time Max's accident was invetigated (exp., the chandeliar at the trash, and the missing link). So the main POI is dead, and had time at the mansion to get rid of anything that may have been evidence. Max's death was simply what CPO thought happened.

In Rebecca's death, all the POI's cooperated fully and the scene was throughly investigated and solved through forensic evidence with the help of the FBI and Dept. of Justice. Much different scenerio.

I haven't followed the McStay case, but don't compare cases anyway.

The scene was not actually fully investigated by the plaintif's attorneys. The catch-22 that Jonah and the SD sherriff's office gave them successfully blocked them from examining it. Then the remodel further destroyed any possibility of further examination.
Therefore, you could say that "evidence at the house had been possibly tampered with".
Yes, I know you are stating that LE 'thoroughly' examined the scene. But it is interesting that PI's from the Plaintiffs' side were not allowed entry and all possible evidence that may have remained has been destroyed forever.

 

[K_Z]

Although I could totally see Dina losing her temper during depositions, facing her worst enemy -- herself -- and that she has to deal with all this legal developments post-Rebecca aftermath (her nemesis in life and now in death still haunting her due to her own vengeance actions) and Dina blowing up physically and vocally. I think her lawyers have a lot to work on for her "presentation" in court.

Respectfully snipped.

IMO, it's really hard for a person with a deep seated, long standing vendetta toward someone to hide their feelings. It's even more disturbing, IMO, when that person continues their vendetta after the target of their rage is dead in their grave. It's my opinion that most rational people on a jury would find that not only disturbing, but highly suspicious, in the case of a gruesome and violent death like Rebecca's.

IMO, DS will have to work very hard to not come across as snippy, angry, and arrogant in her deposition and testimony. I'm thinking that just getting thru the beginning demographic, and background personal information questions is going to be very, very difficult for her. Even with attorney prep sessions. JMO.

Her very good (and very expensive) attorneys will need to keep her away from on- the- record recorded oral deposition as long as possible, IMO. I think they will fight tooth and nail to keep her off of video camera recording in her deposition, because of the way she comes across in interviews, IMO. I think they will drag this out months, or even years if they can.

 

[*Lash*]

Why didn't San Diego sheriffs solve McStay family murder?

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/nov/07/mcstay-family-murder-suspect/

That means the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department identified their suspect and made an arrest in a year. And the San Diego County Sheriff's Department, which handled the case for more than three years until the bodies were found, had nothing. The case changed with the discovery of the bodies, but the question remains: How did the man now accused of killing a family in their Fallbrook home escape detection for so long? Even after San Diego County sheriffs gave him a lie detector test? For reader Greg Gross, the question is: "What led San Bernardino Sheriff's homicide to Charles Merritt as a suspect that their San Diego counterparts didn't have, or somehow missed?"

I so wish there was a different county or LE agency that would investigate Rebecca's case. Couldn't the CPD reopen the file?

SDSO spokeswoman Jan Caldwell of the McStay murders followed by comments by San Bernardino County Sheriff's Office.

San Diego County Sheriff's spokeswoman Jan Caldwell drew this difference between the two cases in an interview Friday: “We worked this case as a missing persons because that’s all we had. Tragically, with the bodies being discovered, it automatically shifted to four homicides. It opened doors for warrants and other investigative techniques. They had access to information that we didn’t.”

Here is how San Bernardino County Sheriff's Sgt. Chris Fisher explained it: "San Diego was conducting a missing persons investigation. When we got the case, we were conducting a homicide investigation. When we got it, we were looking into how these people were killed and where they were killed. So we were looking at everything."

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Adam stated he found her hanging. There is no evidence that she was hanging. Her autopsy was not consistent with hanging. No one else claims to have seen her hanging.

The whole scenario with the table with the broken leg...he stood on it? Really?

They also should have checked for his DNA on Rebecca's mouth...did he really try to give her CPR?

This trial has a stealth defendant and that is the SDSO.

IMHO

Check for Adam's DNA on Rebecca's mouth to prove he tried to give her CPR? Really? Why would they waste time and resourses when they have Rebecca's death to solve and that certainly isn't going to tell them who was responsible for her death.

I suggest you read the autopsy report which is available on the Document thread. It indeed does state that Rebecca died by hanging, was alive when she went over the balcony, and that the neck wounds are consistant with hanging.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Respectfully snipped.

IMO, it's really hard for a person with a deep seated, long standing vendetta toward someone to hide their feelings. It's even more disturbing, IMO, when that person continues their vendetta after the target of their rage is dead in their grave. It's my opinion that most rational people on a jury would find that not only disturbing, but highly suspicious, in the case of a gruesome and violent death like Rebecca's.

IMO, DS will have to work very hard to not come across as snippy, angry, and arrogant in her deposition and testimony. I'm thinking that just getting thru the beginning demographic, and background personal information questions is going to be very, very difficult for her. Even with attorney prep sessions. JMO.

Her very good (and very expensive) attorneys will need to keep her away from on- the- record recorded oral deposition as long as possible, IMO. I think they will fight tooth and nail to keep her off of video camera recording in her deposition, because of the way she comes across in interviews, IMO. I think they will drag this out months, or even years if they can.

Dina does very well in interviews, IMO. She comes off as a heart broken mother who is still being harassed and tormented by the sister of the woman that was suppose to be watching her only child, but instead, he ended up in ICU and died. She seems very intelligent, and not at all "snippy, angry, and arrogant".

IMO, the one they will have trouble with on the stand is Mary Zahau. She is prone to exageration...her "we are poor immigrants" when she is very well off, and her "the balcony came up to Rebecca's chest" when it was only 36" high quote from Dr. Phil. Exageration or lies? She'd better be careful of perjury, IF this ever makes it to trial, as I have a feeling she will be called to give depositions as well.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

The scene was not actually fully investigated by the plaintif's attorneys. The catch-22 that Jonah and the SD sherriff's office gave them successfully blocked them from examining it. Then the remodel further destroyed any possibility of further examination.
Therefore, you could say that "evidence at the house had been possibly tampered with".
Yes, I know you are stating that LE 'thoroughly' examined the scene. But it is interesting that PI's from the Plaintiffs' side were not allowed entry and all possible evidence that may have remained has been destroyed forever.

The SDSO investigated the mansion with the FBI and the Department of Justice, and worked around the clock for 7 long weeks. I really don't think Jonah Shacknai was required to not let anyone enter his home for a year or more just in case the Zahaus wanted to send in their investigators. IMO, the Zahaus have a warped since of entitlement of Jonah's residence and fortune.

 

[*Lash*]

Judge Whelan's Order Denying Motion to
Dismiss 10-15-2014

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Thanks for posting this, Lash. I noticed this is not available on the court website, so I'm wondering if you got it from one of the Zahaus or their lawyers? If not, where did you find it? The link would be very much appreciated.

I parapharse it's meaning as, "By law, the Judge has to accept the Plantiff's allegations as true, even if they are not based on fact and are ridiculous."

 

[infobabe]

This trial has a stealth defendant and that is the SDSO.
IMHO

Respectfully snipped.

I agree. They decided that it was a suicide, and they developed an explanation for how that happened. They did not look at the evidence and piece together what must have happened, they fell in love with a theory and justified it.

The only way Rebecca's death makes sense as a suicide is if she was trying to make it look like murder. There was a case discussed in these forums when the crime first happened, when we were talking about trying to kill yourself the way Rebecca supposedly had, where a man wanted his family to get life insurance money (LE presumed). He tied himself up and drowned in a lake, it was concluded, trying to make it look like a murder because suicide would cancel the insurance benefit. I will have to dig and find the posts.

So what motive would Rebecca have for killing herself in a way that would look like she was murdered? The amount of planning, effort and thought that would have to go into it just isn't supported by the circumstances. She listens (supposedly) to a voicemail from her boyfriend telling her Max is going to die, maybe he says cruel things to her, like he wants her gone from the house and his life. Maybe he blames her, maybe he threatens her. So, she decides to kill herself and make it look like murder to get back at him?

If Rebecca was so grief stricken by the news that Max was dying that she wanted to kill herself out of grief and guilt, then she would have done that. Maybe leaving a note, maybe not. She would have hung herself or bled out in the bath. Would she have sat down and created an elaborate scheme to kill herself? It doesn't fit with common sense.

You look at the way her body was found, and then you proceed from there. What sense would it make for her to kill herself in such a way? None. But it does makes sense if someone (s) killed her and was covering up a crime by trying to make it look like a suicide.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

IMO, Rebecca Zahau wanted to frame Dina Shacknai and traumatize Jonah Shacknai further. I believe she blamed Dina for Jonah not marrying her.

 

[Ausgirl]

I parapharse it's meaning as, "By law, the Judge has to accept the Plantiff's allegations as true, even if they are not based on fact and are ridiculous."

Wrong.

Motion for Summary Judgment - At the conclusion of discovery, the court will typically review the facts of the case and determine if there is sufficient merit to proceed to trial or to encourage the parties to settle.

If the finding of facts determines the case to be frivolous or non-substantiated, the case is dismissed.

Pretrial Order - If a substantial basis for the case is determined, the court will meet with and notify the parties of the trial schedule.

http://serc.carleton.edu/woburn/issues/trial_process

 

[Ausgirl]

Actually the person doesn't have to be a pathological liar. People who are lying often tend to embellish their lies because they are listening to themselves as they talk. The feedback they hear from themselves will become embellishes as they try to make the lie sound believable.

I agree. I would argue that a pathological liar can actually lie far more successfully (due to techniques learned via long-term, habitual acts of lying) than someone who is not one, though this is not always the case.

 

[K_Z]

IMO, Rebecca Zahau wanted to frame Dina Shacknai and traumatize Jonah Shacknai further. I believe she blamed Dina for Jonah not marrying her.

The question is, how will a jury see it? I think it's pretty doubtful a jury will agree with that scenario, but I guess we'll have to wait and see, right?

IMO, Dina had a very well known vendetta against Rebecca before Max was injured. It won't be hard for attorneys to establish that, IMO. Rebecca's death looks like retaliation and revenge against her by someone rageful who hated her, right down to the chosen mechanism of hanging, to imitate Max's accident. An absolutely overwhelming number of the public who have commented here and elsewhere also think it was a revenge murder. There just isn't a lot of people who see this as a suicide, or a suicide set up to frame someone else. That's pretty far fetched, IMO.

The attorneys don't have to "prove" suicide. And they don't have to prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt. All they have to prove is a preponderance of the evidence shows that the defendants are responsible. IMO, juries don't flinch very hard when deciding if defendants are responsible in wrongful death cases. No one's life or freedom is at stake-- only money.

And I don't agree that Mary Zahau is "harassing and tormenting" Dina Shacknai, by filing a wrongful death lawsuit, lol! IMO, what Dina has done to Rebecca and the entire Zahau family pales in comparison with the momentary annoyance for Dina of having to participate as a defendant in a wrongful death civil lawsuit. It'll all be over shortly, in a few weeks or months, and she can continue on with her life at that point. She should be very, very happy about that, IMO. It could be a whole lot worse for her, IMO-- especially if there had been a criminal prosecution of Rebecca's death, which there should have been, IMO.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

The question is, how will a jury see it? I think it's pretty doubtful a jury will agree with that scenario, but I guess we'll have to wait and see, right?

IMO, Dina had a very well known vendetta against Rebecca before Max was injured. It won't be hard for attorneys to establish that, IMO. Rebecca's death looks like retaliation and revenge against her by someone rageful who hated her, right down to the chosen mechanism of hanging, to imitate Max's accident. An absolutely overwhelming number of the public who have commented here and elsewhere also think it was a revenge murder. There just isn't a lot of people who see this as a suicide, or a suicide set up to frame someone else. That's pretty far fetched, IMO.

The attorneys don't have to "prove" suicide. And they don't have to prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt. All they have to prove is a preponderance of the evidence shows that the defendants are responsible. IMO, juries don't flinch very hard when deciding if defendants are responsible in wrongful death cases. No one's life or freedom is at stake-- only money.

And I don't agree that Mary Zahau is "harassing and tormenting" Dina Shacknai, by filing a wrongful death lawsuit, lol! IMO, what Dina has done to Rebecca and the entire Zahau family pales in comparison with the momentary annoyance for Dina of having to participate as a defendant in a wrongful death civil lawsuit. It'll all be over shortly, in a few weeks or months, and she can continue on with her life at that point. She should be very, very happy about that, IMO. It could be a whole lot worse for her, IMO-- especially if there had been a criminal prosecution of Rebecca's death, which there should have been, IMO.

Rebecca's hanging may look like " retaliation and revenge" to those with vivid imaginations and a stubborn refusal to admit there is forensic evidence that proves Rebecca died at her own hand.

Jurys don't like to say people are guilty of murder when it is clear due to the physical evidence they are not. Even to make [modsnip] more wealthy. There is too much evidence that shows Rebecca Zahau killed herself - both circumstantial and physical.

Mary Zahau has been out for Dina ever since July 11, 2011. Who do you think spilled the information about Jonah and Dina's private lives during their divorce? Mary did, IMO. While they were making arrangements to bury their child. Mary only cares for Mary and money, IMO. She does not give one flip about Dina Shacknai or Max Shacknai, nor did her sister, IMO. We will just have to disagree here.

We will see if it moves past depositions. The Zahaus will need to invent some real evidence. Maybe a video tape of all the things they said went on at the mansion that night? There would be no other way to prove it! LOL!

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Wrong.

Motion for Summary Judgment - At the conclusion of discovery, the court will typically review the facts of the case and determine if there is sufficient merit to proceed to trial or to encourage the parties to settle.

If the finding of facts determines the case to be frivolous or non-substantiated, the case is dismissed.

Pretrial Order - If a substantial basis for the case is determined, the court will meet with and notify the parties of the trial schedule.

http://serc.carleton.edu/woburn/issues/trial_process

Uhhhhh, wrong.

I was referring to the "Order of Dismissal Denial " linked to Lash's post #1047 on the last page. Which was the post before my comment.

 

[bourne]

Judge Whelan's Order Denying Motion to
Dismiss 10-15-2014

Kudos to Judge Whelan for following the rule and letter of the law, and for being fair and reasonable and just.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Kudos to Judge Whelan for following the rule and letter of the law, and for being fair and reasonable and just.

He had no choice in the matter. Since the Zahau's 3rd (4th?) allegations met SCA requirements, it has to go forward by law. From the last page of the document:

At this stage in the litigation, the Court is bound by
Supreme Court’s mandate in Twombly to take the factual allegations in the SAC as true.
550 U.S. at 555. Therefore, notwithstanding California Health and Safety Code §
103550 and the “prima facie evidence of the facts stated” in the Coroner’s Report, the
Court, in viewing the factual allegations in the light most favorable to Plaintiffs, finds
that the SAC has set forth allegations with the requisite level of specificity.

 

[*Lash*]

Kudos to Judge Whelan for following the rule and letter of the law, and for being fair and reasonable and just.

Yes, kudos to Judge Whelan! Imo, being fair, reasonable and just is sadly something we have not seen in this case. It is very refreshing. Even if Judge Whelan is just doing his job, he is following the rule of law.

 

[screecher]

I may be wrong, lol, but I believe after discovery, it will move to trial. There is evidence of Dina's disdain (putting it mildly) toward Rebecca (before anything happened to Maxie, before anything happened to Rebecca) there is evidence of Rebecca fearing Dina, there is evidence of all three defendants being at Rebecca's and Jonah's place and there is evidence of motive.

Yeah, I absolutely believe this will go to trial.

 

[*Lash*]

1. Plaintiffs’ SAC pleads facts sufficient to state a claim of a wrongful death based on
2. a conspiracy to batter. Specifically, the SAC alleges the formation of a conspiracy. It also
3. alleges specific facts regarding each Defendant’s role in furtherance the conspiracy,
4. including allegations of the underlying tort and facts as to “where, when, and who did
5. what to whom.” Kendall, 518 F.3d at 1048. Additionally, the SAC alleges resulting
6. damages. (SAC ¶¶ 25–28.) At this stage in the litigation, the Court is bound by
7. Supreme Court’s mandate in Twombly to take the factual allegations in the SAC as true.
8. 550 U.S. at 555. Therefore, notwithstanding California Health and Safety Code §
9. 103550 and the “prima facie evidence of the facts stated” in the Coroner’s Report, the
10. Court, in viewing the factual allegations in the light most favorable to Plaintiffs, finds
11. that the SAC has set forth allegations with the requisite level of specificity.