Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California

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I think brothers can be a huge influence on each other, however.

AS doesn't appear to me to be a very stable person in the interview. His body language seems "off", as does his verbal content, in the context of the gravity of that police interview. And when you apply statement analysis techniques to both the 911 call and his use of words in the interview, it becomes clear that his responses to Rebecca's death are unusual, and it's pretty obvious that he somewhat lacks a filter from brain to mouth when under pressure. So yes, I think his appearance on the stand might be serious cause for worry.
 
I don't think Adam being deposed or on the witness stand will be a problem at all.

Even though I can't say whether someone is stable or not from a 5 minute interview, when you didn't do anything wrong, you don't have much to blurt out under pressure.
 
The sheriff's office do explain, in a very roundabout way that might be confusing for some people, that the 🤬🤬🤬🤬 searches occurred *before* twelve midnight in the hours immediately *prior* to Rebecca's body being found. Ie, on the same day Adam Shacknai was in the mansion.

Now, why the SO won't release the specific times of those searches, I do not know. If they're arguing suicide, then any demonstration of planning would help the pubic image of that ruling immensely. But -- nope. There's just a strangely convoluted statement to the effect that the searches did occur, at some undisclosed point during the day (or evening) before Rebecca was found.

What I am sincerely hoping for is that SOMEbody during this court procedure will release the precise times of those searches. It's far from difficult information to find, you wouldn't need any kind of expert to dig that info up.
 
I don't think Adam being deposed or on the witness stand will be a problem at all.

Even though I can't say whether someone is stable or not from a 5 minute interview, when you didn't do anything wrong, you don't have much to blurt out under pressure.

It's not so much about 'blurting out' something damaging, it's about patterns of language which have been proven to exist in the speech of people who are lying, or withholding important information. Added to the 'inconclusive' polygraph result, it could feasibly add to the mass of circumstantial evidence in the case for wrongful death.

And, as I have repeatedly pointed out in this thread and elsewhere, circumstantial evidence *can* and very often *does* lead to a guilty verdict. A bare minimum of research will confirm that fact.

As for AS appearing not very stable, IMO - well, I have seen a LOT of suspect and witness interviews in murder cases. Very few people use cusswords casually in such a formal and serious setting, especially where that interviewee is intimately connected to the death. Inappropriate language in that setting suggests to me a disconnect with the gravity of the circumstances, hence "unstable". Stable people generally are self-aware enough to adapt their language to suit their circumstances. Ie, what sort of person would be effing and jeffing in a job interview? What sort of person would be doing so in a police interview regarding a woman's death, when they're the most likely to be considered a suspect?

AS's body language and inappropriate verbal language, among other things, suggests to me that, while he might be quite capable of steering a boat, he might also be vulnerable to pressure under circumstances outside of his comfort zone (ie, court room VS job).
 
InParadise and other insiders, I'm curious how Jonah, and the fraternal twins Dina and Nina have been responding to the WDS proceeding?

Are they freaking out or acting calm? I see that Adam has excellent legal representation by a whole slew of reputable defense attorneys.

I concur with KZ that Adam is the wild card as he appears socially awkward though I certainly don't see him as autistic...I think he will be the first to fold and "give it all up". I see him as someone who wants to do the right thing. I also see Jonah as someone who would do the same given that he has nothing to lose either as there's nothing physical tying him directly (yet) to Rebecca's death.

Although I could totally see Dina losing her temper during depositions, facing her worst enemy -- herself -- and that she has to deal with all this legal developments post-Rebecca aftermath (her nemesis in life and now in death still haunting her due to her own vengeance actions) and Dina blowing up physically and vocally. I think her lawyers have a lot to work on for her "presentation" in court.

Nina also tends to be extremely longwinded but she seems more focused on getting her point across so her lawyers will have to keep her brief. Hopefully she goes off the deep end as well and spills her guts out about what conspired and transpired the days leading to Rebecca's murder and her and the other defendants' involvement.

Does anyone know if the depositions are happening already?
 
AZ Lawyer wrote that the Judge cannot ask for charges to be brought should he find enough reasons for the case to move forward after depositions. I did read it. The Zahaus COULD HAVE asked the DA to reopen the case IF they had any evidence, which they don't. They did ask the California Attorney General to review it. The California Attorney General's office looked over the case TWICE and found no reason to reopen. So that will come into evidence as well.

The Zahaus don't have a chance. Doesn't matter when Dina knew when Max was not going to make it. Doesn't matter one bit. The Shacknais and Romanos have DNA, fingerrprints, the findings of the SDSO, which was aided by the DOJ and the FBI, and all the professionals that worked on the case. Saw the ACTUAL scene. Lifted the ACTUAL fingerprints and DNA. I do not think the case will move forward afterr depositions, but if it should, the Zahaus only have rumor and speculation, which will never stand up against FORENSIC evidence, and two reviews by the California District Attorney's office.

If your line of reasoning is correct, then LE correctly dismissed Dina's efforts to re open Max's case. I disagree. I strongly believe Max's case should have been reopened.

You may want to watch the CNN special about the McStay case. It aired for the first time last night. The SDSO came off horribly and screwed that case up. I have every reason to believe its possible they screwed up the Zahau case. I also believe it's quite possible the SDSO influenced the Coronado police to call Max's case an accident and later on blow off Dina. MOO
 
I've thought for a long time that if I were a defending attorney, I would post here as someone from the opposing side. I'd present many situations ( for the defendent(s)) and find out what opposing posters said about them. Then I would prepare my case.

Well, I don't know if defense attorneys would bother actually registering and commenting. We do know that some defense attorneys in high profile cases regularly perused the crime forums. In the Casey Anthony trial they even monitored comments in real time during the trial testimony.

We also know that witnesses in some crimes, and even some "persons of interest" troll the forums. In fact, just yesterday and today there was testimony in open court in the Bob Bashara murder trial (Michigan) from a witness (Obedient Slave/ Therese Giffin) that she openly admitted registering a screen name at the now-defunct Hinky Meter crime forum site. Ms Giffin described in open court, in great detail, how she conspired with another witness to intentionally plant false and damaging information about the victim, Jane Bashara, on that forum site. (Ms. Giffin traded her testimony for immunity from prosecution, as she could have been charged with a number of crimes.) Some here might remember the Hinky Meter-- Rebecca and Max's cases were discussed at length there, before the site was dismantled.

Here's a link to the thread here discussing the witness testimony described above:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...der-of-Jane-Bashara-5&p=11192413#post11192413

So, yes, I think it's not only possible, but probable, that people close to a case, witnesses, etc. sometimes register in these types of anonymous forums. Some have good intentions-- to seek truth, etc. Others clearly have ill intentions, and intend to spread rumors and false information to sway the public.
 
It's not so much about 'blurting out' something damaging, it's about patterns of language which have been proven to exist in the speech of people who are lying, or withholding important information. Added to the 'inconclusive' polygraph result, it could feasibly add to the mass of circumstantial evidence in the case for wrongful death.

And, as I have repeatedly pointed out in this thread and elsewhere, circumstantial evidence *can* and very often *does* lead to a guilty verdict. A bare minimum of research will confirm that fact.

As for AS appearing not very stable, IMO - well, I have seen a LOT of suspect and witness interviews in murder cases. Very few people use cusswords casually in such a formal and serious setting, especially where that interviewee is intimately connected to the death. Inappropriate language in that setting suggests to me a disconnect with the gravity of the circumstances, hence "unstable". Stable people generally are self-aware enough to adapt their language to suit their circumstances. Ie, what sort of person would be effing and jeffing in a job interview? What sort of person would be doing so in a police interview regarding a woman's death, when they're the most likely to be considered a suspect?

AS's body language and inappropriate verbal language, among other things, suggests to me that, while he might be quite capable of steering a boat, he might also be vulnerable to pressure under circumstances outside of his comfort zone (ie, court room VS job).

Excellent analysis, Ausgirl-- spot on interpretation of AS, IMO.

I will also add that AS has done an admirable job of keeping quiet, and staying out of the media. While he does have some very odd comments/ interviews out there, mostly he is "unknown" to the public, IMO. He has far less to overcome via his own words as a defendant, IMO, than the voluminous (and conflicting) interviews of DS and NR.

It will be very, very interesting to see which direction his deposition/ testimony goes, and whether he will reveal more information to shield himself as much as he can. He's not a real "warm and fuzzy" guy, IMO-- he isn't terribly likeable, but in many ways, I think he can be a much more sympathetic figure related to Rebecca's death, than the other 2 named defendants. IMO, he hasn't done anything to actively "trash" the victim publicly, other than perhaps his odd comments at the time of the investigation. He doesn't appear to have a vendetta against Rebecca.
 
Nina also tends to be extremely longwinded but she seems more focused on getting her point across so her lawyers will have to keep her brief. Hopefully she goes off the deep end as well and spills her guts out about what conspired and transpired the days leading to Rebecca's murder and her and the other defendants' involvement.

Respectfully snipped.

I agree. Nina has a habit of adding voluminous and extraneous detail to her re-telling of events, IMO. Remember the pink Coach wristlet, that was only big enough for a cell phone and a lipstick? Brand new yoga pants? Looking thru the gate, but NOT touching it? It reminds me of the kind of breathless retelling of events that young adolescents are parodied for-- "And then, one day, at band camp, when I was wearing my new Nike shoes...."

Either that, or the extraneous information that pathological liars use-- like they have to convince the listener of their veracity.

Nina (like Dina, IMO) is most believable when she is reminiscing about Max. I do believe she was very fond of her nephew, and loved him a lot. She's not as facile with language, and adapting on the fly as Dina, but they have very different life experiences, it seems. IMO, Nina will be the most nervous of the 3, about giving her deposition and testimony. JMO. She seems to follow her sister's lead in many things. JMO.
 
It's not so much about 'blurting out' something damaging, it's about patterns of language which have been proven to exist in the speech of people who are lying, or withholding important information. Added to the 'inconclusive' polygraph result, it could feasibly add to the mass of circumstantial evidence in the case for wrongful death.
'
And, as I have repeatedly pointed out in this thread and elsewhere, circumstantial evidence *can* and very often *does* lead to a guilty verdict. A bare minimum of research will confirm that fact.

As for AS appearing not very stable, IMO - well, I have seen a LOT of suspect and witness interviews in murder cases. Very few people use cusswords casually in such a formal and serious setting, especially where that interviewee is intimately connected to the death. Inappropriate language in that setting suggests to me a disconnect with the gravity of the circumstances, hence "unstable". Stable people generally are self-aware enough to adapt their language to suit their circumstances. Ie, what sort of person would be effing and jeffing in a job interview? What sort of person would be doing so in a police interview regarding a woman's death, when they're the most likely to be considered a suspect?

AS's body language and inappropriate verbal language, among other things, suggests to me that, while he might be quite capable of steering a boat, he might also be vulnerable to pressure under circumstances outside of his comfort zone (ie, court room VS job).


I also have seen a LOT of witness and suspect of interest interviews, and don't agree at all with your assertion that stable people don't use cusswords. Especially when someone is tramatized by the circumstances. Which Adam was. People use all sorts of bad language when stressed. Maybe all of the people being interviewed by the police in Australia as prim and proper, but certainly not here! As Adam's poly was taken the same day he found Rebecca and AFTER having two long and very stressful days, I really find it difficult to believe that anyone could ascess his personality from the quick clip that has been released - even the most gifted of those that study body language - with all due respect to your talents.

With all of your research, you have probably also found, as I have, that polygraph evidence is not admisable iat all n American courts and that circumstantial evidence won't bring a guilty verdict if there is forensic evidence that trumps the circumstantial evidence. So far, the Zahaus have nothing. Not one piece of physical evidence. Not one.

I keep asking for any physical evidence at all that ties any of the three to the room Rebecca hung herself from. ANYTHING that proves one of them was even in that room. Anything. Any at all. One thing.

So far, no one has given me anything but imagined theories and speculation.
 
If your line of reasoning is correct, then LE correctly dismissed Dina's efforts to re open Max's case. I disagree. I strongly believe Max's case should have been reopened.

You may want to watch the CNN special about the McStay case. It aired for the first time last night. The SDSO came off horribly and screwed that case up. I have every reason to believe its possible they screwed up the Zahau case. I also believe it's quite possible the SDSO influenced the Coronado police to call Max's case an accident and later on blow off Dina. MOO


I believe the cases are totally different. For Max's accident, only thhe CPD investigated, and by the time the Doctors at Rady's had called Child Protective Services, Rebecca Zahau had already sent her sister- the only other witness home - and then hung herself later that night/early next morning. So there were no polygraphs, and all the evidence had been at the house and had possibly been tampered with by Rebecca by the time Max's accident was invetigated (exp., the chandeliar at the trash, and the missing link). So the main POI is dead, and had time at the mansion to get rid of anything that may have been evidence. Max's death was simply what CPO thought happened.

In Rebecca's death, all the POI's cooperated fully and the scene was throughly investigated and solved through forensic evidence with the help of the FBI and Dept. of Justice. Much different scenerio.

I haven't followed the McStay case, but don't compare cases anyway.
 
I believe the comparison of this case to the McStay case is important for one reason: in both cases, the families of the victims accused the San Diego sheriff's department of not investigating properly, of refusing to collect or analyze evidence or look for evidence, of basically deciding ahead of time what had happened and the looking for evidence to fit that theory, of failing to seriously investigate the case as a homicide

Here is what the father of Joseph McStay had to say about the San Diego sheriff's department, as reported in the LA Times, after a different sheriff's department made an arrest in the case:

"San Bernardino County sheriff's Sgt. Chris Fisher said there was no "smoking gun" that helped solve the case after so many years. He told the Associated Press the agency re-examined 4,500 pages of evidence handed over by authorities in San Diego County, served 60 search warrants and did 200 interviews. Evidence found at the gravesite also helped, Fisher reportedly said.

Patrick McStay says he's thankful that the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department investigated the case, something he says the San Diego County Sheriff's Department failed to do.

"How many more families like ours are going to have to put up with this; waiting for years because these guys don't do their job?," Patrick McStay says. "It's a rogue sheriff's department in San Diego."

"San Bernardino says that they believe that it all happened in the home. You mean to tell me that they can figure that out and San Diego can't?," he added."

I believe it is significant that two families have had the same frustrations with the same sheriff's dept. refusing to seriously investigate cases as homicides, I both cases bending over backwards, IMO, to defend other conclusions. In the McStay case, an entire family went missing and the home was not processed or treated as a possible crime scene for weeks. In Rebecca's case, the suicide theory was introduced early and many explanations were given for how such a ridiculously complicated suicide could have happened, including a video showing how she could have tied her self up that way,etc.

Going to such careful and deliberate lengths to explain suicide, and then just ignoring other evidence that contradicts that finding.

I think the behavior of the SD sheriff's dept. in the McStay case is very relevant here, it shows they have a pattern of not doing unbiased investigations.

My opinion, of course, respectfully submitted.
 
None of those things would have been done in this or any other hanging investigation, as none of that would shown who was the person that was resonsible for the hanging.

Adam stated he found her hanging. There is no evidence that she was hanging. Her autopsy was not consistent with hanging. No one else claims to have seen her hanging.

The whole scenario with the table with the broken leg...he stood on it? Really?

They also should have checked for his DNA on Rebecca's mouth...did he really try to give her CPR?

This trial has a stealth defendant and that is the SDSO.



IMHO
 
With all of your research, you have probably also found, as I have, that polygraph evidence is not admisable iat all n American courts and that circumstantial evidence won't bring a guilty verdict if there is forensic evidence that trumps the circumstantial evidence. So far, the Zahaus have nothing. Not one piece of physical evidence. Not one.

I keep asking for any physical evidence at all that ties any of the three to the room Rebecca hung herself from. ANYTHING that proves one of them was even in that room. Anything. Any at all. One thing.

So far, no one has given me anything but imagined theories and speculation.

And I keep telling you: physical evidence isn't necessary, where the circumstantial evidence stacks up sufficiently. The forensic evidence can be shown to be horrifically tainted and mismanaged by SDSO, whose crime scene and general investigations of the case leave a great deal to be desired. Huge mistakes were made -- coincidentally or otherwise, many in the Shacknai's favour. Tests that should have been done were not. Questions that should have been asked have not been. Coincidentally or not, all in the Shacknai's favour.

I hope this is raised as a rebuttal to the shoddy physical evidence reports regarding the suicide verdict that will get trotted out, missing (as they are now) huge and vital portions of what should be there. I hope the arrogance of Gore is pointed out, when he announces that HIS sheriff's dept does not *have to* test every bit of evidence at the scene of a suspicious death, and indeed in this case did not, too bad, so sad.

Thanks to this sheriff's office, coincidentally or not, we can't actually trust the physical evidence. For example, where extremely valuable evidence may have been gathered from examination of Rebecca's body as to core temperature, livor mortis patterns and insect activity, for example, SDSO inexplicably (really.. how can they possibly justify THIS?) left her body lying in the open sun and air, for 13 hours before removing it to autopsy. All that evidence means nothing, therefore, and speaks absolutely nothing as to what may have happened to her. All conclusions drawn from those and any other aspects of the autopsy affected by this heinous and unthinkably irresponsible treatment of Rebecca's remains cannot be trusted.

The balcony evidence is smirched by the large, misplaced boot of LE. Items at the crime scene were not examined. Missing items were not sought, and therefore not located. And those vital tests... not done, Rebecca's underwear... not located... so evidence was lost that may have helped the case, in either direction.

People who should have been interviewed and asked for samples were not. Gloves that ought to contain strong individual samples from the last person who wore them yielded, inexplicably, only weak 'mixed' dna. It goes on and on...

An awful lot of errors and bad calls of judgement, all happening at once. Quite incredible, when you look at it from a few steps back. So, as important portions of the physical evidence were spoiled, or never gathered properly, or at all, perhaps the circumstantial case isn't as overwhelmed by material evidence as some might hope.

You are quite right about one thing though - Aussie crooks do actually cuss inappropriately during police interviews. The stupid ones, anyway.

Polygraph evidence is, according to my incredibly magnificent and sparkly, strawberry-flavoured research skills (and about 15 seconds on Google), allowed in some states of the US, under some circumstances. In California, for example:

[8][9] "Evidence Code section 351.1 states
that 'the results of a polygraph examination,
the opinion of a polygraph examiner, or any
reference to an offer to take ... or [the]
taking of a polygraph examination, shall not be
admitted into evidence in any criminal
proceeding, including ... post conviction ...
hearings, ... unless all parties stipulate to
the admission of such results.'


http://www.polygraphplace.com/articles/polygraph_evidence_approved.htm

I also found this:

States like California, Arizona, Nevada, Georgia, and Florida allow the tests if everyone agrees to them, but may put different emphasis on the test's accuracy.

California lawyers, for instance, can present the results to the jury, and allows them to draw whatever inferences from it they wish.

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/admissability-of-polygraph-tests-in-court.html

And this:

The Constitutional rights of a criminal defendant cannot be abrogated by a state statute. In a civil case (if able to lay a foundation) polygraph evidence is admissible.

http://www.duilawyerlosangeles.com/for-attorneys/admit-polygraph-evidence-for-rebuttle/

And isn't it basically a free for all, polygraph-wise, in New Mexico?

Not that I think AS will agree to having those results aired in court -- after all, it's such a great (and potentially damning) addition to a circumstantial case. But your assertion that polygraphs are not permitted "at all" is clearly .. wrong.
 
II really find it difficult to believe that anyone could ascess his personality from the quick clip that has been released - even the most gifted of those that study body language - with all due respect to your talents.

Body language analyses can be conducted on a still photograph - a single frame! A five-minute clip, with context provided, can yeild a lot of information.

Same goes for language analysis. One does not need a text the length of War and Peace.. A single sentence can contain indicators that the sentence is based in a lie. Even when (or, especially when) analysing a 'very short clip', multiple sentences displaying multiple indicators of deception may add to a conclusion that the subject is not telling the truth on a particular topic, or is avoiding disclosure of information.

Not so hard to believe, then. Unless one really does not wish to..
 
Respectfully snipped.

I agree. Nina has a habit of adding voluminous and extraneous detail to her re-telling of events, IMO. Remember the pink Coach wristlet, that was only big enough for a cell phone and a lipstick? Brand new yoga pants? Looking thru the gate, but NOT touching it? It reminds me of the kind of breathless retelling of events that young adolescents are parodied for-- "And then, one day, at band camp, when I was wearing my new Nike shoes...."

Either that, or the extraneous information that pathological liars use-- like they have to convince the listener of their veracity.

Nina (like Dina, IMO) is most believable when she is reminiscing about Max. I do believe she was very fond of her nephew, and loved him a lot. She's not as facile with language, and adapting on the fly as Dina, but they have very different life experiences, it seems. IMO, Nina will be the most nervous of the 3, about giving her deposition and testimony. JMO. She seems to follow her sister's lead. in many things. JMO.

Actually the person doesn't have to be a pathological liar. People who are lying often tend to embellish their lies because they are listening to themselves as they talk. The feedback they hear from themselves will become embellishes as they try to make the lie sound believable.
 
Respectfully snipped.

I agree. Nina has a habit of adding voluminous and extraneous detail to her re-telling of events, IMO. Remember the pink Coach wristlet, that was only big enough for a cell phone and a lipstick? Brand new yoga pants? Looking thru the gate, but NOT touching it? It reminds me of the kind of breathless retelling of events that young adolescents are parodied for-- "And then, one day, at band camp, when I was wearing my new Nike shoes...."

Either that, or the extraneous information that pathological liars use-- like they have to convince the listener of their veracity.

Nina (like Dina, IMO) is most believable when she is reminiscing about Max. I do believe she was very fond of her nephew, and loved him a lot. She's not as facile with language, and adapting on the fly as Dina, but they have very different life experiences, it seems. IMO, Nina will be the most nervous of the 3, about giving her deposition and testimony. JMO. She seems to follow her sister's lead. in many things. JMO.

Actually the person doesn't have to be a pathological liar. People who are lying often tend to embellish their lies because they are listening to themselves as they talk. The feedback they hear from themselves will become embellishes as they try to make the lie sound believable.
 
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