Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #83

[jjonez]

Could anybody help me out?
I’m thinking about and digging into where GP and BL were spending their nights.

8/12 I know BL was taken to the Bowen (as seen in the footage). I have no evidence as to whether or not he stayed. I don’t know where GP stayed that night. Did she have a reservation at Arches NP?

8/17 BL leaves for FL (per SB, CaL, GP’s uncle)

When did GP check in at the Fairfield? Anybody have a link?

8/21 Uber eats delivered to Fairfield Inn (per JP)

8/23 BL returns from FL (per SB, CaL, GP’s uncle)
Did he stay at the Fairfield with GP? I believe I’ve heard he was with GP at check out. Anybody have a link?

8/24 GP checked out of Fairfield Inn and Suites in SLC, UT. she had stayed multiple nights.
https://www.fox13now.com/news/local...here-missing-woman-gabby-petito-was-last-seen

I’ve only seen speculation as to where her van was at this time. Anybody have evidence?

8/26-8/29 multiple sightings of van at Spread Creek dispersed camping area.

I know they had a profile at The Dyrt . I question the accuracy of the dates provided.

Are there any definitive facts of where and when they stayed in the nomadicstatik youtube video?

please assume everything in this post to be jmo, unless a link is provided.

I’d be grateful to anyone who has something to contribute to this topic. Links and facts preferred. <modsnip - rumors are not allowed to be posted on WS> .

 

[ringbearer]

I'm looking for reasons to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt and at this point, I don't have those. I realize WS isn't court, but for me, before I call someone a murderer, I'd like to have juror-level certainty or at least something close to that based on evidence.

I've read many posts that seem to be saying Fact X will absolutely prove BL's guilt and for me, the things mentioned haven't been all that persuasive. If a certain outcome occurs (and many outcomes put forth here are merely speculative) and there are two plausible ways to interpret that outcome with one meaning he killed her and one meaning he didn't, I'd give anyone the benefit of the doubt under those circumstances. Others may prefer to assume guilt as their default position (whether it's BL, the attorney, or the L's actions under discussion) That's fine on WS (but obviously not on a jury!) For example, BL's DNA. They lived together in a tiny space. They slept together in a tent. It's likely they washed their clothes less often than when they lived in the parents' condo or house. They showered less often than when they lived in a condo or house, I'm sure. Of course, they'd have each other's DNA on their bodies.

Other posts have maintained a lack of foreign DNA on GP would prove BL did it. Well, no, not really.

Perhaps if the FBI releases additional evidence I'll be convinced. But not at this point. I'm not saying BL didn't do it. Just that I need more to be sure he did.
JMO

Exactly. Plus, it doesn't matter what any of us here think, so me declaring "he's a murderer!" would be pfftt. jmo

 

[PommyMommy]

Could anybody help me out?
I’m thinking about and digging into where GP and BL were spending their nights.

8/12 I know BL was taken to the Bowen (as seen in the footage). I have no evidence as to whether or not he stayed. I don’t know where GP stayed that night. Did she have a reservation at Arches NP?

8/17 BL leaves for FL (per SB, CaL, GP’s uncle)

When did GP check in at the Fairfield? Anybody have a link?

8/21 Uber eats delivered to Fairfield Inn (per JP)

8/23 BL returns from FL (per SB, CaL, GP’s uncle)
Did he stay at the Fairfield with GP? I believe I’ve heard he was with GP at check out. Anybody have a link?

8/24 GP checked out of Fairfield Inn and Suites in SLC, UT. she had stayed multiple nights.
https://www.fox13now.com/news/local...here-missing-woman-gabby-petito-was-last-seen

I’ve only seen speculation as to where her van was at this time. Anybody have evidence?

8/26-8/29 multiple sightings of van at Spread Creek dispersed camping area.

I know they had a profile at The Dyrt . I question the accuracy of the dates provided.

Are there any definitive facts of where and when they stayed in the nomadicstatik youtube video?

please assume everything in this post to be jmo, unless a link is provided.

I’d be grateful to anyone who has something to contribute to this topic. Links and facts preferred. <modsnip>.

BBM

Police share body camera footage of Gabby Petito - follow updates live
24 August, 2021: Ms Petito is last seen with checking out of a Salt Lake City hotel with Mr Laundrie

Gabby Petito: Police reveal fears for missing YouTuber - ‘It’s possible something very bad has happened here’
Ms Petito, 22, of Long Island, hasn’t been seen since she checked out of a Salt Lake City hotel on August 24 with her partner Brian Laundrie.

Fiancé of missing woman shared chilling post before she vanished on trip
The 22-year-old New Yorker was last seen on August 24 after leaving a hotel in Salt Lake City, Utah, with Laundrie.

 

[Roselle65]

I know people take SB's statements with a grain of salt, but for whatever it's worth, he does say this:

Bertolino confirmed to 8 On Your Side he spoke with Brian before he was reported missing.

“I can tell you I last spoke to him Sept. 13 and I spoke to him Sept. 12,” he said. “Beyond that, there’s nothing further I am going to add.”

Brian Laundrie timeline: Family attorney details days surrounding disappearance of Gabby Petito’s fiancé

In my own view, BL probably did not take a phone of any sort to the swamp, and I tend to believe SB here, so IMO, BL likely left on the 13th, sometime after speaking with SB. And do we know if CL spent a solid 4-5 hours searching, or did he maybe just come and go several times while they waited for BL's return? Jmo.

I don't know if it helps narrow the time down, but there is also this, from the same source:

According to Bertolino, Brian’s dad Chris went out to the Myakkahatchee Creek Environmental Park on Sept. 13 after his son didn’t come home.

“Chris went out that night and looked for him,” the attorney said. “It was wet, it was rainy. Chris couldn’t see anything. It was dark.”

According to this weather information link, the only rain that day was from around 4:15 to before 5:53 pm.
Weather in September 2021 in City of North Port, Florida, USA

And sunset was 7:35 pm.

I don't understand why they didn't call LE to help with his.

 

[BreakingNews]

I'm looking for reasons to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt and at this point, I don't have those. I realize WS isn't court, but for me, before I call someone a murderer, I'd like to have juror-level certainty or at least something close to that based on evidence.

I've read many posts that seem to be saying Fact X will absolutely prove BL's guilt and for me, the things mentioned haven't been all that persuasive. If a certain outcome occurs (and many outcomes put forth here are merely speculative) and there are two plausible ways to interpret that outcome with one meaning he killed her and one meaning he didn't, I'd give anyone the benefit of the doubt under those circumstances. Others may prefer to assume guilt as their default position (whether it's BL, the attorney, or the L's actions under discussion) That's fine on WS (but obviously not on a jury!) For example, BL's DNA. They lived together in a tiny space. They slept together in a tent. It's likely they washed their clothes less often than when they lived in the parents' condo or house. They showered less often than when they lived in a condo or house, I'm sure. Of course, they'd have each other's DNA on their bodies.

Other posts have maintained a lack of foreign DNA on GP would prove BL did it. Well, no, not really.

Perhaps if the FBI releases additional evidence I'll be convinced. But not at this point. I'm not saying BL didn't do it. Just that I need more to be sure he did.
JMO

I've been on a jury for murder in Australia. It all depends on how the evidence is presented (and we don't have all that now). However with the evidence presented so far, I'd have to go with guilty beyond reasonably doubt. Although not fact, why did Brian come home in Gabby's van alone and why did he kill himself. Common sense puts all this together to make conclusions.

 

[NCWatcher]

I've been on a jury for murder in Australia. It all depends on how the evidence is presented (and we don't have all that now). However with the evidence presented so far, I'd have to go with guilty beyond reasonably doubt. Although not fact, why did Brian come home in Gabby's van alone and why did he kill himself. Common sense puts all this together to make conclusions.

I've been on a murder jury too. We convicted but there was alot more evidence than we have in this case. And even then there was a teeny-tiny doubt that several of us on the jury discussed. Since reasonable doubt doesn't mean zero doubt we were comfortable convicting. But my doubts are much greater here. And I do agree when hearing a court case it depends on how evidence is presented. But the bits of speculative evidence I've seen in various posts touted as "proving" BL killed GP don't prove that at all according to my common sense. Sometimes jurors do add 2+2 to get 5 though.

IF BL found GP dead after he went hiking alone & IF he loved her at all (I think he did) then I could see him feeling distraught enough to kill himself. He easily could have been distraught because he felt he failed her and felt he didn't want to live without her. People do sometimes kill themselves after the natural or accidental death of a partner or spouse. People also sometimes feel intense guilt over a death even when the death was entirely natural. So personally I don't think suicide proves murder guilt. (Plus we don't even know if BL died by suicide at this point. It's an assumption that he did. And even if I thought suicide would prove murder, I'd need actual evidence of suicide.)

So far as the van goes, we don't know who paid for it. We do know BL did most of the conversion work. I DO realize GP was the legal owner. However, comment after comment has taken the point of view that young people are careless in following the law so far as things like getting a DL and car registration & plate in the state of actual residency. But all of a sudden when talking about van ownership BL is expected to be a legal stickler??? Can't have it both ways.

JMO

 

[jjonez]

SB ‘MEDIA TOUR’ COMPILED
updated

Oct 20 CNN, Cuomo Prime Time, phone interview with Chris Cuomo
https://twitter.com/cuomoprimetime/status/1450995282062229506

Oct 21 WFLA 8, phone interview with Mahsa Saedi
Brian Laundrie timeline: Family attorney details days surrounding disappearance of Gabby Petito’s fiancé

Oct 21 NBC News Now
Full interview: Laundrie family attorney speaks out on remains identified as Brian

Oct 21 News Nation Prime, with Marni Hughes
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/wy-gabrielle-‘gabby’-petito-22-grand-teton-national-park-8-25-21-media-maps-no-discussion.586401/page-46#post-17218081

Oct 21 ABC7NY, with Kristin Thorne
Full Interview: Laundrie family attorney Steve Bertolino discusses

Oct 22 GMA, with George Stephanopoulos
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/wy-gabrielle-‘gabby’-petito-22-grand-teton-national-park-8-25-21-media-maps-no-discussion.586401/page-47#post-17219217

Oct 22 Fox News Digital, print interview
Brian Laundrie's lawyer: FBI has 'everything they need' in Gabby Petito murder probe

Oct 22 East Idaho News, print interview
'A bad state of mind': What the last conversation Brian Laundrie had with his parents was like - East Idaho News

Oct 22 News Nation, Ashleigh Banfield
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/wy-gabrielle-‘gabby’-petito-22-grand-teton-national-park-8-25-21-media-maps-no-discussion.586401/page-47#post-17223210

shout out and many thanks to @PommyMommy for being the queen of news links!

 

[Deleted member 229974]

Okay, I mean this in the nicest possible way, but you seem to dismiss evidence that Brian is a murderer even when there are links and multiple sources and instead go out of your way to give him the benefit of the doubt, which is your prerogative.

But I am very honestly curious about what would settle it for you. What evidence would convince you that BL killed Gabby? I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from.

{{{raising hand}}}
Oooo, oooo, let me! A videotape of BL committing the murder. Just like the jurors in the OJ Simpson case wanted. @@ IMO

 

[jjonez]

North Port PD had cameras set up around the Laundrie family home but that strategy was not successful. Those who were watching the Laundrie house saw Brian leave in his grey Mustang.
North Port police admit to mistakes in Brian Laundrie investigation

Doesn't LE know what time BL left? They were monitoring the house, so LE knows when he left.

from the Bertolino & Banfield interview
39:40
The police said that they lost your client. There was surveillance on him and when he went off to the reserve they didn’t even notice the mustang leaving.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/wy-gabrielle-‘gabby’-petito-22-grand-teton-national-park-8-25-21-media-maps-no-discussion.586401/page-47#post-17223210

IMO, I have seen this corroborated by Josh Taylor.

 

[katydid23]

I don't understand why they didn't call LE to help with his.

I think I understand why they didn't call LE. They seemed desperate to keep their son far away from any contact with LE----they did not want him questioned.

 

[katydid23]

I've been on a murder jury too. We convicted but there was alot more evidence than we have in this case. And even then there was a teeny-tiny doubt that several of us on the jury discussed. Since reasonable doubt doesn't mean zero doubt we were comfortable convicting. But my doubts are much greater here. And I do agree when hearing a court case it depends on how evidence is presented. But the bits of speculative evidence I've seen in various posts touted as "proving" BL killed GP don't prove that at all according to my common sense. Sometimes jurors do add 2+2 to get 5 though.

IF BL found GP dead after he went hiking alone & IF he loved her at all (I think he did) then I could see him feeling distraught enough to kill himself. He easily could have been distraught because he felt he failed her and felt he didn't want to live without her. People do sometimes kill themselves after the natural or accidental death of a partner or spouse. People also sometimes feel intense guilt over a death even when the death was entirely natural. So personally I don't think suicide proves murder guilt. (Plus we don't even know if BL died by suicide at this point. It's an assumption that he did. And even if I thought suicide would prove murder, I'd need actual evidence of suicide.)

So far as the van goes, we don't know who paid for it. We do know BL did most of the conversion work. I DO realize GP was the legal owner. However, comment after comment has taken the point of view that young people are careless in following the law so far as things like getting a DL and car registration & plate in the state of actual residency. But all of a sudden when talking about van ownership BL is expected to be a legal stickler??? Can't have it both ways.

JMO

You say that you believe he loved her. And you suggest he may have found her dead, after he returned from a hike.

If he loved her, would he just leave her decaying body out in the woods? Isn't that disrespectful towards the love of your life?

And wouldn't he want to know who killed her? He loved her and he was OK with running away and not trying to get justice for her?

And how do you explain the crime scene? How did he find her body when he returned? It wasn't with the van or with a tent or anything.
Did he just happen upon her body? Was he the one that hid the remains?

Because if so, why didn't anyone else see it before he hid it from view?

He supposedly went hiking alone, offering strangers 200 dollars for a short ride? What was that about? Wasn't that 200 stolen from her account with the debit card? They were short on cash, so why would he be spending that kind of money just for a ride back to the van?

None of his behaviour after he 'found' her makes any sense, if he was totally innocent. If he was truly away on a hike then he'd have no reason to hide her body and run across country.

If he was truly distraught at her death, as you surmise, why was he seen happy and smiling in the camping photos with his family when he returned home, after finding her dead body?

Think about this part---she was with him, in that van, the very last time she was seen or heard from by anyone. If he had gone on an innocent overnight hike, all alone, why did she suddenly stop communicating with anyone at the same time?

It would be quite a big coincidence if he walked away from their van for his solo hike, and she was then suddenly killed in the woods, by a stranger. What a stroke of bad luck for poor BL.

 

[NCWatcher]

You say that you believe he loved her. And you suggest he may have found her dead, after he returned from a hike.

If he loved her, would he just leave her decaying body out in the woods? Isn't that disrespectful towards the love of your life?

And wouldn't he want to know who killed her? He loved her and he was OK with running away and not trying to get justice for her?

And how do you explain the crime scene? How did he find her body when he returned? It wasn't with the van or with a tent or anything.
Did he just happen upon her body? Was he the one that hid the remains?

Because if so, why didn't anyone else see it before he hid it from view?

He supposedly went hiking alone, offering strangers 200 dollars for a short ride? What was that about? Wasn't that 200 stolen from her account with the debit card? They were short on cash, so why would he be spending that kind of money just for a ride back to the van?

None of his behaviour after he 'found' her makes any sense, if he was totally innocent. If he was truly away on a hike then he'd have no reason to hide her body and run across country.

If he was truly distraught at her death, as you surmise, why was he seen happy and smiling in the camping photos with his family when he returned home, after finding her dead body?

Think about this part---she was with him, in that van, the very last time she was seen or heard from by anyone. If he had gone on an innocent overnight hike, all alone, why did she suddenly stop communicating with anyone at the same time?

It would be quite a big coincidence if he walked away from their van for his solo hike, and she was then suddenly killed in the woods, by a stranger. What a stroke of bad luck for poor BL.

People do all kinds of things after discovering dead bodies. Many of those things are not logical. I'm not saying "leaving her decaying body out in the woods" (as you put it) would have been logical. I'm also not saying he just randomly stumbled over her dead body after hiking. Rather, if that happened I'd suspect a campsite had already been set up. I'm also saying it is illogical to me to decide killing himself proves he killed her. It's possible he killed himself for other reasons such as those I described. Plus, we don't even know yet that he did kill himself. While (as you say) it would have been a stroke of bad luck for BL for GP to be found alone & killed by a stranger, but it's not as though that's never happened to anyone. (Bad luck for GP too, IMO.)

For me to decide he absolutely killed her I need more than a failure of BL to act logically or a failure to act the way I think I would have acted in his situation. I also need more than "if not BL, then who?" to decide he must have done it. Finally, if he did kill himself, BL's apparently happy mood with his nephews could be easily explained. He may have been trying to give them one last happy memory of time with him. Cassie said he was a very loving uncle. Also, it's not unusual for people who've decided to kill themselves to "cheer up." The decision has been made. The pain will be over soon. Relief is on the way.

Again, I'm not saying he didn't do it. I'm simply saying based on currently known evidence I'm just not ready to join the parade that says he's definitely guilty. And the posts I've read so far suggesting X proves his guilt have all been flawed to me. After all, it wasn't that long ago people were 100% sure he killed her immediately after eating at the Mexican restaurant based on the TikToker's GP apology story and the fact he "smirked" at times. The manager's story of the couple's failed dine & dash attempt put a bit of a crimp in that theory. And the engineer who was 99.9% sure he talked to BL in a parking lot near the AT? Many here believed he saw BL. Then after BL's "skeletal remains" were found some seriously suggested BL yanked out his teeth and left them in the FL swamp to be found while he ran to Mexico. How lucky a few individual teeth could be found in a 25,000 acre flooded preserve! (But, of course, his parents led LE to them!) And how many prepaid credit cards were the Laundries hypothesized to have given him? (Along with a kayak at Ft DeSoto, a ride to the Mexican border, and a crawl space hideout under their Florida slab foundation home.)

JMO

 

[blackbeary]

I wouldn't find the presence or absence of BL's DNA anywhere on or in GP's body especially persuasive. GP & BL did live together intimately without access to daily showers and without easy access to laundry facilities. People do engage in "back-scratching sex." We also know in the past GP slapped/scratched BL in non-fatal encounters.

Much has been made of the sweatshirt GP was supposedly wearing. Some posters have concluded that meant the attack occurred in the evening. I don't know if that conclusion is valid but if it was evening, her attacker--BL or someone else-- may have had on long sleeves too. That would have limited the bare skin area available to scratch. And last, her body was outdoors for at least 3 weeks after death.
JMO

If they didn't find any other persons DNA on or around Gabby, that would say a lot in my book.

 

[blackbeary]

If I'm on a vacation with my husband and come back from shopping and he's strangled dead, I'd be screaming my bloody head off, calling for help. I wouldn't get back in our car, drive home & pretend he didn't exist, or that I just left him there to fend for himself a ride home because I've got his debt card. And if I did dump him there you can bet he'd be calling everyone to tell them what a b I am!
It's leaning towards him hurting her at their campsite, trying to shut her up.
M00
Edited to add, on Dr. Phil, Gabby's stepdad said something to the effect, of where the fire ring was & where the tent door was possibly at, and that's the way be would have set up his site. I'm just wondering if the tent was there when the searchers found Gabby?
My own musings

 

[NCWatcher]

If I'm on a vacation with my husband and come back from shopping and he's strangled dead, I'd be screaming my bloody head off, calling for help. I wouldn't get back in our car, drive home & pretend he didn't exist, or that I just left him there to fend for himself a ride home because I've got his debt card. And if I did dump him there you can bet he'd be calling everyone to tell them what a b I am!
It's leaning towards him hurting her at their campsite, trying to shut her up.
M00

I don't think I'd leave someone's dead body either. (Whether I'd drive off and leave a live person would be pretty situation specific.)

But none of us are BL and most of us are not 23-year old men. And what we think we'll do in a situation often isn't what we actually do. For example, the vast majority of those commenting here said they'd turn in an adult child for a crime that could result in life in prison or the death penalty. While those answers are quite the law & order answers, I'm sure most of those answers were sincerely offered. But the vast majority of people arrested for crimes-- even minor crimes--aren't turned in by family members even when family are well-aware LE is searching for them. Turning an adult in for a suspected crime isn't quite like taking a 7-year old back to the store to pay for a candy bar. So judging others' actions by what we think we'd do is often unfair.
JMO

 

[Sassafrass]

Many snowbirds rent for 4 to 6 months

Yes, and? I have snowbirds all around me (I'm in a northern state) and while gone, all the usual home management - cleaning, upkeep, seasonal, landscape, rep - is managed and coordinated by a separate service that handles the mail as well, rather than simply getting even the junk mail forwarded by using the post office forwarding option.

 

[Sassafrass]

I'm looking for reasons to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt and at this point, I don't have those. I realize WS isn't court, but for me, before I call someone a murderer, I'd like to have juror-level certainty or at least something close to that based on evidence.

I've read many posts that seem to be saying Fact X will absolutely prove BL's guilt and for me, the things mentioned haven't been all that persuasive. If a certain outcome occurs (and many outcomes put forth here are merely speculative) and there are two plausible ways to interpret that outcome with one meaning he killed her and one meaning he didn't, I'd give anyone the benefit of the doubt under those circumstances. Others may prefer to assume guilt as their default position (whether it's BL, the attorney, or the L's actions under discussion) That's fine on WS (but obviously not on a jury!) For example, BL's DNA. They lived together in a tiny space. They slept together in a tent. It's likely they washed their clothes less often than when they lived in the parents' condo or house. They showered less often than when they lived in a condo or house, I'm sure. Of course, they'd have each other's DNA on their bodies.

Other posts have maintained a lack of foreign DNA on GP would prove BL did it. Well, no, not really.

Perhaps if the FBI releases additional evidence I'll be convinced. But not at this point. I'm not saying BL didn't do it. Just that I need more to be sure he did.
JMO

Whew. Fair enough (of course!). But do remember when looking to approach or approximate a "juror-level certainty" that in any jury case, 1) what is allowed in or excluded as evidence does not necessarily align to all that is relevant or probative, 2) the standard in court is "reasonable doubt," not scintilla of," and 3) as you note, there may well be significant evidence that would be admissible in court but to which we are not privy. Most cases ultimately rely on some level of judgment call by triers of fact - it's almost always possible to poke holes in any one piece of information standing alone, but the determination rests on an assessment of the totality of the evidence. If one says, " well...it could have been aliens" to each mote of info, that's ignoring the "reasonable" in "reasonable doubt."

 

[FindingJoLee]

If I accept all the proposed twists and turns that would need to take place in order for Brian to be innocent of Gabby’s murder, who is it that should be considered as (a) potential murder suspect(s)?

 

[Wendigo4]

Gabby Petito’s Father Speaks On The Contents Of Brian Laundrie’s Notebook As Sleuths Seek More Answers (msn.com)

JP's thoughts on the notebook

 

[Doghairrules]

I don't think I'd leave someone's dead body either. (Whether I'd drive off and leave a live person would be pretty situation specific.)

But none of us are BL and most of us are not 23-year old men. And what we think we'll do in a situation often isn't what we actually do. For example, the vast majority of those commenting here said they'd turn in an adult child for a crime that could result in life in prison or the death penalty. While those answers are quite the law & order answers, I'm sure most of those answers were sincerely offered. But the vast majority of people arrested for crimes-- even minor crimes--aren't turned in by family members even when family are well-aware LE is searching for them. Turning an adult in for a suspected crime isn't quite like taking a 7-year old back to the store to pay for a candy bar. So judging others' actions by what we think we'd do is often unfair.
JMO

Think about BL’s behavior in stark contrast to Mollie Tibbett’s boyfriend’s behavior after she went missing. He sounded the alarm when he found out she didn’t show up to work. He drove home. He allowed himself to be questioned by LE even though he was likely to be their first suspect. He was with her family, they worked together to find her. He didn’t slink off and hide with her stuff. He HELPED.

If BL returned from his hike, which apparently no one saw him on, and found her dead why wouldn’t he want police out there ASAP while the evidence was fresh? That would have been the time to prove someone else was there. Other campers could have been questioned. DNA would have been present. There may have been footprints or drag marks or whatever. But we will never know because he chose to hide her death and run away.