You, the jury

[madeleine]

I was wondering about JMK said,that the tape was applied to stop the bleeding,not to silence her.What if it was applied in order to make breathing more difficult?

One more thing,it says somewhere that they found bloody mucus under the tape or on her cheek somewhere.What was the cause of that bleeding,strangulation or head bash?

 

[WHITEFANG]

SuperDave;You're right, madeleine, I do know what it means. But that's my point. This isn't fifty years ago, where you stood a much better chance of getting an impartial jury. With all of our modern forms of communication, better access to education and a whole slew of other factors, people are much less circumspect in what they think they know. The law has to change with the times.

All the more reason the Governor of Colorado should have kept his mouth shut.

 

[DeeDee249]

I was wondering about JMK said,that the tape was applied to stop the bleeding,not to silence her.What if it was applied in order to make breathing more difficult?

One more thing,it says somewhere that they found bloody mucus under the tape or on her cheek somewhere.What was the cause of that bleeding,strangulation or head bash?

JMK was not there, period. JMK has offered NOTHING over and above what can be found online by anyone. We ALL know she was found with tape, any one who knows that could easily simply make a statement about why the tape was there.
It was there because it is something easily identifiable as something a kidnapper would do, easy to make it look like it WAS a kidnapping.
There was no evidence on that tape which would indicate that she was struggling to either breathe or remove the tape with her tongue. Her lip prints were found on the tape, perfectly formed. If you wanted to make it difficult for her to breathe, you'd cover her nose as well.
There was bloody mucous on her right cheek, were it ran down her cheek as her face was turned to the right. It can be seen in the photos. Interesting point- the mucous had to have dribbled out BEFORE the tape was placed on her mouth. It was a result of either the head bash or strangulation or both. So right there is an indication the tape was added later for effect.

 

[DeeDee249]

John said he tried to loosen them. Don't know how far he got before he was told to stop.

The operative words here are "John SAID".... enough said.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The operative words here are "John SAID".... enough said.

Ad hominem.

I'm pretty sure that some of us believe an intruder did it. With this in mind, JR and PR become witnesses and their opinions and statements could be helpful.

In my view they are.

 

[WHITEFANG]

The operative words here are "John SAID".... enough said.

And then I brought her upstairs into the

15 living room and later there, at one point, tried

16 to untie the not further, and Linda Arndt stopped

17 me from doing it.

18 LOU SMIT: The knot?

19 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.

She, Linda, may be able to recall whether she told him to stop.
Do we suspect him of lying about everything? Is he pretty much incapable of telling the truth at all, at least when it pertains to this horror?

 

[MurriFlower]

Aww don't do that.
I don't need any favors.
Fine,I understand,the fact that there are other suspects who can't be eliminated is NOT important to you.I am not surprised,you already know who killed JB.Why are you here then,to fight with people like me who have no idea who it was but would like to find out?That's why I am here.

That's a very good question.

 

[sharkeyes]

Yes, I believe Patsy killed JonBenet, though I do not believe she murdered JonBenet. My gut tells me Patsy manhandled JB in a manner that caused her death. I do not believe Patsy murdered JB in cold blood, premeditated, etc. Guilty of killing JB - yes, guilty of being so stupid and trying to cover it up - definitely.

 

[madeleine]

JMK was not there, period. JMK has offered NOTHING over and above what can be found online by anyone. We ALL know she was found with tape, any one who knows that could easily simply make a statement about why the tape was there.
It was there because it is something easily identifiable as something a kidnapper would do, easy to make it look like it WAS a kidnapping.
There was no evidence on that tape which would indicate that she was struggling to either breathe or remove the tape with her tongue. Her lip prints were found on the tape, perfectly formed. If you wanted to make it difficult for her to breathe, you'd cover her nose as well.
There was bloody mucous on her right cheek, were it ran down her cheek as her face was turned to the right. It can be seen in the photos. Interesting point- the mucous had to have dribbled out BEFORE the tape was placed on her mouth. It was a result of either the head bash or strangulation or both. So right there is an indication the tape was added later for effect.

Where did I say JMK WAS there?
I said maybe he GUESSED it right.Maybe he made up something that will turn out to be the right scenario,I don't know.How do you know your or my scenario is better then his.He had a theory just like we do,how do you know his isn't the right one.That has nothing to do with him being or not being there.

 

[madeleine]

I think most people believe in the accident scenario because they have no explanation as to why the husband would cover for her if she were a cold blooded killer..If it was an accident though ,what stopped JR from calling 911.He already lost one daughter.
It doesn't make sense.Put yourself in the man's shoes for one minute.

 

[madeleine]

Live and learn dear defense lawyers,
and make SURE the judge explains your jury what reasonable doubt means!

 

[MurriFlower]

Yes, I believe Patsy killed JonBenet, though I do not believe she murdered JonBenet. My gut tells me Patsy manhandled JB in a manner that caused her death. I do not believe Patsy murdered JB in cold blood, premeditated, etc. Guilty of killing JB - yes, guilty of being so stupid and trying to cover it up - definitely.

Sharkeyes, you should travel in her shoes and then decide. If you can do this and still say she's guilty you must have also looked at the evidence, not just the 'supposing' and 'perhapsing' you read on here. If you have any doubt at all, then you should reserve your judgement.

 

[MurriFlower]

Where did this idea come from anyway.There is absolutely no evidence that the flashlight was used in the murder or to bash JB's head.It's one of the BPD's silly attempts to make it look like RDI but it just doesn't fly.Lots of experts said that the fracture rather tells us she wasn't HIT but pushed/thrown into something and I agree.

"Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer said that the right side of JonBenet Ramsey's skull had a linear fracture which ran the entire length of the skull, measuring 8.5 in.~ in length front to rear. Detective Arndt told me that Dr. Meyer said he observed recent fresh hemorrhage to the brain consistent with the skull fracture line and running its entire length, and that there was a rectangular shaped displaced piece of skull measuring 1.75 in. x .5 in. Detective Arndt stated that the placement of bruising and the skull fracture on the same side of the child's skull, in the opinion of Dr. Meyer, was consistent with a blow to the head."

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

"Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer said that the right side of JonBenet Ramsey's skull had a linear fracture which ran the entire length of the skull, measuring 8.5 in.~ in length front to rear. Detective Arndt told me that Dr. Meyer said he observed recent fresh hemorrhage to the brain consistent with the skull fracture line and running its entire length, and that there was a rectangular shaped displaced piece of skull measuring 1.75 in. x .5 in. Detective Arndt stated that the placement of bruising and the skull fracture on the same side of the child's skull, in the opinion of Dr. Meyer, was consistent with a blow to the head."

Given the size of .5 x 1.75, I'd be thinking something smaller, with smaller cross-section than a gun. Perhaps a small caliber gun, the butt of a knife, or brass knuckles? IMO the displacement of a piece of that size suggests an item with smaller or same cross-section moving at higher speed. Further, it suggests the item penetrated.

 

[madeleine]

Call me nuts but I was bored and decided to do a little exercise

I followed the SBTC pattern in the RN

I took the first s-word,then the b-word,t-word,c-word and then started again with the next s-word,b-word,etc


Mr. Ramsey

Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We do respect your bussiness [sic] but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our posession [sic]. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.

You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 am tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a [sic] earlier delivery pick-up of your daughter.

Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I., etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies. You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart [sic] us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now John!

Victory!

S.B.T.C.


I copied then all the words that stood out and ended up with this


Small business the country
serves be the call
so be the call
so being talking can
stand back the cat
so be that common

Any thoughts?Probably it's nothing.......

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I did something like that when I took out all the nouns. The list of nouns falls easily in a military vocabulary, and a male's vocabulary. Not religion, not female, not southern.

Mr. Ramsey

Listen carefully! We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction. We do respect your bussiness [sic] but not the country that it serves. At this time we have your daughter in our posession [sic]. She is safe and unharmed and if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to the letter.

You will withdraw $118,000.00 from your account. $100,000 will be in $100 bills and the remaining $18,000 in $20 bills. Make sure that you bring an adequate size attache to the bank. When you get home you will put the money in a brown paper bag. I will call you between 8 and 10 am tomorrow to instruct you on delivery. The delivery will be exhausting so I advise you to be rested. If we monitor you getting the money early, we might call you early to arrange an earlier delivery of the money and hence a [sic] earlier delivery pick-up of your daughter.

Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter do not particularly like you so I advise you not to provoke them. Speaking to anyone about your situation, such as Police, F.B.I., etc., will result in your daughter being beheaded. If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies. If you alert bank authorities, she dies. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies. You will be scanned for electronic devices and if any are found, she dies. You can try to deceive us but be warned that we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics. You stand a 99% chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart [sic] us. Follow our instructions and you stand a 100% chance of getting her back. You and your family are under constant scrutiny as well as the authorities. Don't try to grow a brain John. You are not the only fat cat around so don't think that killing will be difficult. Don't underestimate us John. Use that good southern common sense of yours. It is up to you now John!

Victory!

S.B.T.C.

 

[BBB167893]

This is more believable than the flashlight over the head idea.

I have my doubts as well.

That idea doesn't really fit the fractured area very well.

You mean literally or figuratively?

Also why would anyone risk losing their flashlight functionality by hitting someone over the head with it?

That's cold, man.

And why wouldn't PR or JR simply turn on the light? What do they need a flashlight for?

Who says they did need one? Maybe it was just there when everything went down.

Just saying.

 

[BBB167893]

Where did this idea come from anyway.There is absolutely no evidence that the flashlight was used in the murder or to bash JB's head.

I can tell you exactly where the idea came from, madeleine. Werner Spitz. According to him, the flashlight fits into the hole in JB's skull precisely.

In fact, in 2000, he took the skull of a six-year-old, coated it in ballistics gel to simulate flesh and muscle, then struck the skull with a flashlight identical to the one found in the Ramsey home. According to Spitz, it produced a skull fracture nearly identical to the one JB had.

Just thought you'd want to know.

It's one of the BPD's silly attempts to make it look like RDI but it just doesn't fly.

I don't know.

Lots of experts said that the fracture rather tells us she wasn't HIT but pushed/thrown into something and I agree.

I tend to lean that way myself.

 

[BBB167893]

I was wondering about JMK said,that the tape was applied to stop the bleeding,not to silence her.

Who?

One more thing,it says somewhere that they found bloody mucus under the tape or on her cheek somewhere.What was the cause of that bleeding,strangulation or head bash?

Head bash fits with what we know.

 

[BBB167893]

All the more reason the Governor of Colorado should have kept his mouth shut.

Precisely.