Zahra Baker's Biological Mother

[WhyaDuck?]

I don't believe bio mom either. There are 2 sides for every story. Women do not have there children removed for nothing. In Zahra's case, she just left here. If it was post partum depression doesn't AUS have national healthcare?
The only one I would like to hear from is Zahra's grandmother.
Has anyone checked out IMVU, the social networking site where EB met AB. It doesn't seem to me that you could meet some lonely heart online and manipulate them. Afterall, you can be anyone or anything online.

Hi! We have a thread dedicated to the IMVU/VW line of inquiry, but we ask that all discussion of that subject be confined to the members only section of WS for the time being.

Members can visit the thread here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118817"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[carmenugt]

My heart BREAKS for Zahra's real mother. My cousin had untreated post-partem depression, and it went on for years until it got so bad she finally was hospitalized and put on medication. If people have not experienced this kind of depression that do not know what it does. You are not yourself. It's a chemical imbalance that does not remedy itself on its own easily. I believe it took years for this bio-mom to really get better and even then, she was fragile. The contempt for her I've heard from KB's comments on FB is not warranted after I've heard this side of the story. They never mentioned this -- only that the mom took off. Marie Osmond also 'took off' after having one of her children when she got the pp depression. It's not their fault. For the father and his family to wall her off and then speak of her like that shows that knew nothing of the suffering of this woman. And they could have made an effort for her to have small visits with her mother. I'm mad at the Bakers and the Aussie government. This child should NEVER have been allowed to leave the country unless they had contacted the bio-mom for permission because she wouldn't have given it. And Zahra wouldn't have been abused and tortured and she'd be safe with her mom.

If someone does not "show up" for the raising of their child, not to mention 2 cancer battles, why would they show up to court to contest travel? I believe bio mom is experiencing "hindsight."
I do not come on her to bash. People always say "you can do anything you want to do." I don't believe this to be true for some children. Some child do not have the basic need of shelter, food and safety. Without these basic needs met,they can not develop normally or at the rate of a child who's needs are met. I read to learn. I read to try to use my voice and talent to change the things in the world that trouble me. One child at a time. One person at a time. Otherwise, the injustice in this world seem overwhelming .Hopefully, when I grow old, I will have changed someone's life for the better.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

perhaps she felt very low about herself. Maybe she had zero self esteem at o.ne point. I refuse to judge, as far as I am concerned neither ED nor KB has been proven to have done anything to have caused the death of Zahra. I believe we know where that blame lies

We're on the same page yet again, TL. My personal view is that we know absolutely nothing about the circurstances surrounding either ED or KB. I can see quite plainly that ED is mourning this child. I know that KB took an active interest in this child's life, when she was able to do so. I see absolutely NO reason to try to dig up dirt on either of these women, and try to place any blame on their shoulders what so ever. THEY are not the reason we are all in here trying to find a precious child. That responsibility stops right at her father and step mother's door.

MOO

 

[bellyup]

Your situation certainly sounds like it was difficult, to say the least, but my comment wasn't directed at your situation at all. I can ABSOLUTELY see where you would feel the necessity of keeping your child away from her father, and I can understand from personal experience your disgust with the justice system that ignores blatantly horrible parenting. But what is it you think ED did or didn't do to justify AB and KB keeping her away? Was it really that bad, or was it just the B's subjective opinions?

We don't know. As I've said there are TWO sides to this story. There are people (other than the Baker's) who are out there discrediting ED's story and quite harshly I might add. If what they are saying is true or not ... I don't know.

I just do not trust the been looking for her forever gig. I see many ways that ED could have found Zahra if it was her top priority. It wasn't IMO, and that puts her squarely in the column of adults that failed Zahra.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

We don't know. As I've said there are TWO sides to this story. There are people (other than the Baker's) who are out there discrediting ED's story and quite harshly I might add. If what they are saying is true or not ... I don't know.

I just do not trust the been looking for her forever gig. I see many ways that ED could have found Zahra if it was her top priority. It wasn't IMO, and that puts her squarely in the column of adults that failed Zahra.

Just FWIW - the reporter in Australia that did the interview says that he's seen the documents and talked to her extensively and he believes every word she is saying.

And also FWIW - I do too.

 

[bellyup]

I work with Foster Care, so know perhaps a bit about this. If you have Evidence that dad was getting high around this child, it needed to be presented to your attorney or the Judge directly. If you suspect it because someone has told you this, then you need to get that person to let Child Services know, or even the police. Getting high with a child around is a CRIME!
I don't know what the rules are there, but you need to know that there are laws everywhere to protect children, and usually there is something that can be done if somoene makes enough noise.

Oh I know. I made a lot of noise and it was a HUGE battle. The stories I could tell would fill a book. In the end, I finally managed to get the money to get a lawyer and he ended up with supervised visits. Of which he only used a few times and then just quit seeing her for the most part.

I have to say I was a POOR single mom and VERY VERY young. There was NOTHING that would have stopped me fighting for what was best for her. Period. That's what mothers whose children come FIRST, DO.

My daughter is nearly an adult now.... and in the past five years she's talked to him less than i can count on one hand. He STILL claims that my mother and myself kept her from him. I KNOW that if something horrible happened to her.... he'd be the first one running to the media crying and claiming how horrible we both were in keeping her from him. Chances are he'd look really sincere too.

Truth is there is always A LOT more to a story ... and from what I've seen (not stated by the Bakers and posted on public sites by those who claim to know AB and ED) ED has more to her story she isn't going to tell to the public.

 

[bellyup]

Just FWIW - the reporter in Australia that did the interview says that he's seen the documents and talked to her extensively and he believes every word she is saying.

And also FWIW - I do too.

I'm not saying I don't believe SOME ... even most... of what she's said. I just don't think she looked that hard and exhausted every resource she could have.

 

[bellyup]

If someone does not "show up" for the raising of their child, not to mention 2 cancer battles, why would they show up to court to contest travel? I believe bio mom is experiencing "hindsight."

This is another point that I think people need to consider. ED was notified that Zahra was terminally ill.

Think for a moment if you did not have custody of your child but found out they were TERMINAL. Would you be content to sit with medical records and the knowledge that a grandmother was taking care of them.

I for one would NOT .... and I'd go to JAIL if I had to in trying to gain access to my baby. There is NOTHING that could stop me... not money, not other children, not a new husband .... I'd be relentless until I was able to be by my child's side.

 

[NancyA]

However it may be, I'm not going to second-guess, question the amount of effort she coulda/shoulda/woulda put into finding Zahra; it's easy for us who haven't lost a child in these horrific circumstances to sit around saying what we would have done and what in our opinion she should have done. No one's perfect and makes the right choices and decisions every time ALL the time. Right now she's probably beating herself up more than any member of Joe Public ever could for things she did or didn't do. For me, she's a woman in obvious torment and agony and until I see evidence she deserves to be kicked while she's about as down as it's possible to get I'm leaving my kicking boots in the closet.

 

[Beagle]

This is another point that I think people need to consider. ED was notified that Zahra was terminally ill.

Think for a moment if you did not have custody of your child but found out they were TERMINAL. Would you be content to sit with medical records and the knowledge that a grandmother was taking care of them.

I for one would NOT .... and I'd go to JAIL if I had to in trying to gain access to my baby. There is NOTHING that could stop me... not money, not other children, not a new husband .... I'd be relentless until I was able to be by my child's side.

BBM is there a link to show where it states that ED knew Z was ill, as I don't remember seeing one. TIA

 

[Patty G]

BBM is there a link to show where it states that ED knew Z was ill, as I don't remember seeing one. TIA

Emily wrote on { Oct 28, 2010 - 12:10:58 } at the http:www.thehinkymeter.com site the following:

I was not told she was sick until 2007, and then the person to notify me was told by Adam not to notify of their whereabouts, or her illness, but this person felt that was wrong and told me Zahra was in Queensland and very ill. As soon as I was made aware I applied for her medical records which I regularly updated, but once again privacy laws prevented me from knowing where she was, except for the state.

 

[panthera]

Emily wrote on { Oct 28, 2010 - 12:10:58 } at the http:www.thehinkymeter.com site the following:

I was not told she was sick until 2007, and then the person to notify me was told by Adam not to notify of their whereabouts, or her illness, but this person felt that was wrong and told me Zahra was in Queensland and very ill. As soon as I was made aware I applied for her medical records which I regularly updated, but once again privacy laws prevented me from knowing where she was, except for the state.

I'm confused on the part regarding the privacy laws preventing her from knowing where Zahra was if AB didn't have full custodial rights. :waitasec: MOO

 

[DLT88]

This is another point that I think people need to consider. ED was notified that Zahra was terminally ill.

Think for a moment if you did not have custody of your child but found out they were TERMINAL. Would you be content to sit with medical records and the knowledge that a grandmother was taking care of them.

I for one would NOT .... and I'd go to JAIL if I had to in trying to gain access to my baby. There is NOTHING that could stop me... not money, not other children, not a new husband .... I'd be relentless until I was able to be by my child's side.

We don't know, though, that she didn't try. And, like someone else, said - this woman may not have the self-esteem of a lot of other mothers. She may be prone to depression and feelings of worthlessness. She is the only one, to me, who comes across candid and truthful. We weren't in her shoes, so we don't know that she didn't try and see her child during the cancer bouts.

 

[pharmchick]

IMO, nobody over in Australia is directly responsible for what happened to Zahra through any action or inaction. There were two people who lived with her EVERY DAY that were supposed to be loving her and taking care of her, regardless of any other family drama, and those are AB and EB. In my mind, THEY are the ones that failed her, and THEY alone are responsible.

I know I haven't posted here a whole lot, but I do know that WS is the forum I choose to read most because it is so victim friendly. None of us know what ED has been through, at least not fully, and her daughter just died under some horrible circumstances - that makes her a victim. It makes me sad to see all the posts that seem to blame her in some way for not loving her daughter enough or not searching for her hard enough. What would that matter now anyway? Poor Zahra has suffered something really horrible, and that means that ED is suffering too. Not attacking anyone, but MOO.

 

[bellyup]

IMO, nobody over in Australia is directly responsible for what happened to Zahra through any action or inaction. There were two people who lived with her EVERY DAY that were supposed to be loving her and taking care of her, regardless of any other family drama, and those are AB and EB. In my mind, THEY are the ones that failed her, and THEY alone are responsible.

I know I haven't posted here a whole lot, but I do know that WS is the forum I choose to read most because it is so victim friendly. None of us know what ED has been through, at least not fully, and her daughter just died under some horrible circumstances - that makes her a victim. It makes me sad to see all the posts that seem to blame her in some way for not loving her daughter enough or not searching for her hard enough. What would that matter now anyway? Poor Zahra has suffered something really horrible, and that means that ED is suffering too. Not attacking anyone, but MOO.

IMO when something horrible happens to a child .... it's important to look at ALL the adults in that childs life and see where things could have been stopped, changed, or altered in ANY way to have saved that child. Since ED has claimed that AB was a less than stellar partner (she claimed mental abuse on HM) it's important to note that had she doggedly pursued and obtained custody based on just those feelings ... that this child might well still be alive.

To NOT look at that does Zahra an injustice. If we know what patterns look like , we can learn from them.

It's not about kicking ED when she's down. So far as I know she hasn't posted here (though she could be reading). I KNOW everyone makes mistakes and I KNOW she's probably kicking herself from here to next year that she didn't fight the Baker's harder. I just don't have a lot of respect for someone who cannot own up to their own mistakes and be forthcoming and truthful. A lot of people could hear an important message from ED about abusive relationships and protecting children from them. Could help save another child.

 

[LCoastMom]

IMO, nobody over in Australia is directly responsible for what happened to Zahra through any action or inaction. There were two people who lived with her EVERY DAY that were supposed to be loving her and taking care of her, regardless of any other family drama, and those are AB and EB. In my mind, THEY are the ones that failed her, and THEY alone are responsible.

I know I haven't posted here a whole lot, but I do know that WS is the forum I choose to read most because it is so victim friendly. None of us know what ED has been through, at least not fully, and her daughter just died under some horrible circumstances - that makes her a victim. It makes me sad to see all the posts that seem to blame her in some way for not loving her daughter enough or not searching for her hard enough. What would that matter now anyway? Poor Zahra has suffered something really horrible, and that means that ED is suffering too. Not attacking anyone, but MOO.

Thank you and I agree with everything you said.

The reporter who interviewed ED said he has seen proof of everything she claims and that he believes her 100%.

 

[grayjay]

I'm confused on the part regarding the privacy laws preventing her from knowing where Zahra was if AB didn't have full custodial rights. :waitasec: MOO

I've hesitated to bring this up because it's very personal, but I've had this exact same experience here in the US. It's possible it may fall out of the choice I made NOT to spend any more money on the fight through attorneys after some very bad experiences and also because of some of my basic beliefs, but that is what happened.

 

[LCoastMom]

I'm confused on the part regarding the privacy laws preventing her from knowing where Zahra was if AB didn't have full custodial rights. :waitasec: MOO

I'm going to use something I went through as an example. A couple years after my divorce my ex decided he didn't want to pay child support (he also rarely saw the kids) - I filed through the DA to get wage garnishment. Because of this, the county knew where he was - even after he quit his job.

I was not on public assistance, so the county had no real interest in pursuing him, but I was persistent and filed complaint after complaint, for failure to pay support - occasionally over the years the DA would drag him into court and a judge would threaten to spank his hands for not paying. So I know they had current addresses for him.

I eventually remarried and my husband wanted to adopt the youngest - we went through the county for a step parent adoption and did everything they asked for, but we had no idea where the ex lived - mind you this was all in the same county! The office we went to for all our appointments was in the same building as child support division, but they would not / could not help us, because privacy laws protected the ex.

We eventually found him by accident, two years after we started paperwork for the adoption - we later discovered he lived within 10 minutes of my house the whole time and had for several years. Hiding in plain sight.

AB moved Zahra across country from ED - if I understand what she posted at HM correctly - they were 700 miles away from her when she found out Zahra was so sick. I have no trouble believing her explanation of not finding Zahra. Been there, done that.

 

[revampz]

re above......he moved her to Giru from Newcastle (or wagga wagga) which is in new south wales......just to let you know............from Giru to Brisbane (capital of Queensland) is about a 14 hour drive or 1300 kilometres (825 miles).....from Brisbane to Newcastle is probably another 8 -9 hours 785 kilometres (480 miles).
so there is ALOT of distance........

however like I mentioned before her name was in the local newspaper in Townsville saying she lived in Giru (pop 300)......in 2008.....so if she was looking up the internet and googled her name this would have come up.....

I dont want to judge her and am sure she tried her best probably with limited funds and a new family......however I do not beleive that she could not track this little girl down....especially when they had shared custody but he took off......

the truth is the above but I also beleive this must be devastating for this poor woman who would also be feeling so much guilt for not being in her daughters life and being able to save her....

she also is NOT the one who abused or killed her.....

I also think AB got Zahra out of the country without this womans permission and she should have been notified by him, regardless of whether she was in her daughters life or not.......he was out of order.

 

[pudd]

re above......he moved her to Giru from Newcastle (or wagga wagga) which is in new south wales......just to let you know............from Giru to Brisbane (capital of Queensland) is about a 14 hour drive or 1300 kilometres (825 miles).....from Brisbane to Newcastle is probably another 8 -9 hours 785 kilometres (480 miles).
so there is ALOT of distance........

And then Newcastle to Wagga is another 7-9 hours depending on the route you take (610 kilometres/380 miles).
This is the full trip - hope this works! :crossfingers: It's about 27 hours non-stop.

map of Giru, Qld to Wagga Wagga, NSW here