Zahra Baker's Biological Mother

[Jacaranda]

From what I understand, her mother has said they were living in Wagga Wagga when Zahra was born when she left Zahra in his care while she was suffering from PND. When she went back to get in touch with them, AB had moved and she didn't know where to. This move was to Newcastle, it took her a long time to track them down to there and by the time she did, he had moved to Giru. She did not find them in Giru until she came across the mother of a friend of hers on FB who was listed as a friend of KB's. The rest is history.

I'm not uptodate on when she said she received Zahra's medical records, I haven't read anything about that but if she didn't know to look for them in Queensland and was still thinking they were in NSW, it may have limited her search. I don't know but what I do know is that she is in no way connected to this poor little girls disappearance. I have been reading how she is copping a hiding on a FB page dedicated to Zahra, from what appears to be friends and family of the fathers family and it makes me sick.

 

[Kimster]

Let's start moving the discussion back on the interview and less on mum's ability to parent. Her parenting skills have nothing to do with what happened to Zahra. Whatever she shoulda woulda coulda done is now mute and negative speculation can only cause more pain to her. She's suffered enough.

 

[Pondering Mind]

I'm going to use something I went through as an example. A couple years after my divorce my ex decided he didn't want to pay child support (he also rarely saw the kids) - I filed through the DA to get wage garnishment. Because of this, the county knew where he was - even after he quit his job.

I was not on public assistance, so the county had no real interest in pursuing him, but I was persistent and filed complaint after complaint, for failure to pay support - occasionally over the years the DA would drag him into court and a judge would threaten to spank his hands for not paying. So I know they had current addresses for him.

I eventually remarried and my husband wanted to adopt the youngest - we went through the county for a step parent adoption and did everything they asked for, but we had no idea where the ex lived - mind you this was all in the same county! The office we went to for all our appointments was in the same building as child support division, but they would not / could not help us, because privacy laws protected the ex.

We eventually found him by accident, two years after we started paperwork for the adoption - we later discovered he lived within 10 minutes of my house the whole time and had for several years. Hiding in plain sight.

AB moved Zahra across country from ED - if I understand what she posted at HM correctly - they were 700 miles away from her when she found out Zahra was so sick. I have no trouble believing her explanation of not finding Zahra. Been there, done that.

I hear ya LCoastMom! My ex moved from SC to W. Va. to avoid paying child support. Since I was not on public assistance they wouldn't even look for him! ..and it would not have been hard to find him as he was drawing a disability check the entire time..but the courts wouldn't/couldn't do a thing. One call to the Social Security Administration would have told where his check was going..but nope..wouldn't do it..

 

[LCoastMom]

I hear ya LCoastMom! My ex moved from SC to W. Va. to avoid paying child support. Since I was not on public assistance they wouldn't even look for him! ..and it would not have been hard to find him as he was drawing a disability check the entire time..but the courts wouldn't/couldn't do a thing. One call to the Social Security Administration would have told where his check was going..but nope..wouldn't do it..

Ya know Pondering Mind - I am feeling so hopeless about this whole situation. The internet isn't new! These connections have been available for years - I fully believe ED did her best and someone along the way could have helped her out - like with your ex and mine - their information is available -

AB was also allowed to get away with his bad behavior by moving Zahra around. Was that ever in Zahra's best interest? I'd have to say NO! And somehow I doubt if AB is ever going to face the ultimate sanctions for what he caused and allowed to happen to his daughter.

 

[pharmchick]

I have two questions that are nagging at me about Zahra's situation in Australia after seeing all of her mum's media....

Her mother said that she was grateful to KB for helping to make sure her daughter was healthy and safe (I'm paraphrasing --- can't remember if I saw this on one of the edits of mum's interviews or on her HM postings?), but do we know if KB made every move that AB did? Not trying to sleuth KB because I feel she's a victim here too, but just trying to shed some light on whether AB was Zahra's primary caregiver at most points or had KB helping him the whole time until the move to the US.

Also, what was Zahra being told about her mum? She must have asked. Did AB leave her out of the family drama and tell her the sort-of-truth, "your mum loves you but she can't take care of you right now," or did he use it as an instrument of emotional abuse by saying "your mum doesn't love you or want you," or worse "your mum is dead" ??

Maybe there's not an answer to either, but just wondering if any of you awesome sleuthers have come across anything. Thanks.

 

[pudd]

And then Newcastle to Wagga is another 7-9 hours depending on the route you take (610 kilometres/380 miles).
This is the full trip - hope this works! :crossfingers: It's about 27 hours non-stop.

map of Giru, Qld to Wagga Wagga, NSW here

And just because I'm obsessive, here's the map showing the distance between Giru and Wagga via Newcastle. You can see how far it is and it covers two state jurisdictions, which usually don't co-operate well with each other.

Apologies for ther_beatingA_Dead

 

[Clue Hopper]

I have a question. If anyone is knowledgeable about this could you please answer? Postpartum depression, could or does it involve a possible harm to the child? what exactly is it? I googled it, but it still leaves me wondering exactly what it is, and what effects it has.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

< snipped by me >

Postpartum depression can happen anytime within the first year after childbirth. A woman may have a number of symptoms such as sadness, lack of energy, trouble concentrating, anxiety, and feelings of guilt and worthlessness. The difference between postpartum depression and the baby blues is that postpartum depression often affects a woman's well-being and keeps her from functioning well for a longer period of time. Postpartum depression needs to be treated by a doctor. Counseling, support groups, and medicines are things that can help.

Postpartum psychosis is rare. It occurs in 1 or 2 out of every 1000 births and usually begins in the first 6 weeks postpartum. Women who have bipolar disorder or another psychiatric problem called schizoaffective disorder have a higher risk for developing postpartum psychosis. Symptoms may include delusions, hallucinations, sleep disturbances, and obsessive thoughts about the baby. A woman may have rapid mood swings, from depression to irritability to euphoria.



http://www.medicinenet.com/postpartum_depression/page2.htm

The type of thing you are asking about would fall under the category of Postpartum Psychosis, and that's pretty rare. So I'm inclined to believe that Biomum does not fall into this category.

 

[NoeticSoul]

I have two questions that are nagging at me about Zahra's situation in Australia after seeing all of her mum's media....

Her mother said that she was grateful to KB for helping to make sure her daughter was healthy and safe (I'm paraphrasing --- can't remember if I saw this on one of the edits of mum's interviews or on her HM postings?), but do we know if KB made every move that AB did? Not trying to sleuth KB because I feel she's a victim here too, but just trying to shed some light on whether AB was Zahra's primary caregiver at most points or had KB helping him the whole time until the move to the US.

Also, what was Zahra being told about her mum? She must have asked. Did AB leave her out of the family drama and tell her the sort-of-truth, "your mum loves you but she can't take care of you right now," or did he use it as an instrument of emotional abuse by saying "your mum doesn't love you or want you," or worse "your mum is dead" ??

Maybe there's not an answer to either, but just wondering if any of you awesome sleuthers have come across anything. Thanks.

BBM

That's a very good question which I would like to learn to answer to as well.

IMO at the very least (even if AB was telling Zahra lies) ZB should have been told (positive things!) about her mum by KB.

I understand that grandma took care of ZB and made sure she had proper medical treatment, and I don't doubt that she may now be grieving but she STILL did Zahra and Emily wrong in the very worst way by not making sure ZH knew her mum as well as afforded the ability to visit with Emily (who by the way had joint legal custody as of 2001 and paid child support).

OT/ I also don't see KB advancing any effort to recover Zahra in any way. I find that curious. jmoo

 

[Pondering Mind]

Ya know Pondering Mind - I am feeling so hopeless about this whole situation. The internet isn't new! These connections have been available for years - I fully believe ED did her best and someone along the way could have helped her out - like with your ex and mine - their information is available -

AB was also allowed to get away with his bad behavior by moving Zahra around. Was that ever in Zahra's best interest? I'd have to say NO! And somehow I doubt if AB is ever going to face the ultimate sanctions for what he caused and allowed to happen to his daughter.

You're right..it was only 5 yrs ago that my ex came back into the picture..and only then because he called me!..I couldn't find him and I worked for a skip tracing company @ the time! I had software available to me (which I used to try and track him down with his SS#..his name, his girlfriends name, everything I could think of! Not only that, but I have a friend that is a detective who went out on a limb and ran his SS# and other info for me.. he really wasn't supposed to do that, but since the ex had a warrant out for child support..he helped me out. The only thing he was a able to find was an address (that I had already checked) of my ex's nephew here in SC..different city but still SC..that it appeared mail had been going to..Big Fat Dead End..nothing, nada..and like I said he was/is getting a SS disability check the whole time..how can that be, that he couldn't be tracked? He was in W Virginia for 6 years AND his g-friend was in prison for 3 of those years for bad checks..and I couldn't find em!

I believe that ED did the best she could at that time..and you know the saying..when you know better, then you do better..I do know one other thing though..IF she really was suffering from PPD..I can relate..as I have severe depression/anxiety that has crept up on me over the last decade or so..and no one and I mean no one could possibly know how totally debilitating depression can be unless they have experienced it..I don't know how severe ED's depression was..but I thank the Lord everyday that mine was not like this when my children were young and at home, I really do..wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy..

 

[epiphany]

http://www.riversideonline.com/health_reference/Womens-Health/AN01236.cfm

Content Provided by MayoClinic.com

The signs and symptoms &#8212; such as fatigue, mood swings, sleeping problems, sadness and anxiety &#8212; can be so strong that they interfere with daily tasks, including caring for an infant. Studies show that depressed mothers are less involved with their infant. They are also inconsistent in how they respond to their infant. They can be loving and attentive one minute and withdrawn the next.

 

[Pondering Mind]

IMO, nobody over in Australia is directly responsible for what happened to Zahra through any action or inaction. There were two people who lived with her EVERY DAY that were supposed to be loving her and taking care of her, regardless of any other family drama, and those are AB and EB. In my mind, THEY are the ones that failed her, and THEY alone are responsible.

I know I haven't posted here a whole lot, but I do know that WS is the forum I choose to read most because it is so victim friendly. None of us know what ED has been through, at least not fully, and her daughter just died under some horrible circumstances - that makes her a victim. It makes me sad to see all the posts that seem to blame her in some way for not loving her daughter enough or not searching for her hard enough. What would that matter now anyway? Poor Zahra has suffered something really horrible, and that means that ED is suffering too. Not attacking anyone, but MOO.

See, that's the thing that really bugs me too. What IF ED did not look for Zahra the way 'we' would have or didn't start until just the last couple of years..no matter what the reason..good or bad. Even IF she just didn't want to be a mum back then..then yes, that's something I could never understand..but she still didn't cause Zahra's death! I mean it would be a reasonable expectation to assume that a childs father would not murder her or sit by while she was murdered by his wife!.. jmo fwiw..

 

[Patty G]

I have a question. If anyone is knowledgeable about this could you please answer? Postpartum depression, could or does it involve a possible harm to the child? what exactly is it? I googled it, but it still leaves me wondering exactly what it is, and what effects it has.

This link gives a good description of "Postpartum Depression".
https://health.google.com/health/ref/Postpartum+depression

Postpartum Depression
Postpartum depression is a more serious condition that affects between 8 - 20% of women after pregnancy, especially the first 4 weeks. It is necessary to seek medical attention to treat postpartum depression.

You may have a higher chance of postpartum depression if you:
Are under age 20

Currently abuse alcohol, take illegal substances, or smoke (these are also serious medical health risks for the baby)

Did not plan the pregnancy or do not want the pregnancy

Had a mood or anxiety disorder prior to pregnancy, including depression with a previous pregnancy

Had something stressful happened to you during the pregnancy, including illness, death or illness of a loved one, a difficult or emergency delivery, premature delivery, or illness or abnormality in the baby

Have a close family member who has had depression or anxiety

Have a poor relationship with your husband, boyfriend, or significant other or are unmarried

Have financial problems (low income, poor housing)

Have little support from family, friends, and a significant other

Previously attempted suicide

Received poor support from your parents in childhood

Treatment
The treatment for depression after birth often includes medication, therapy, or a combination of both. There are several types of antidepressant medications that may be given to breastfeeding mothers, including nortriptyline, paroxetine, and sertraline.

If you are thinking of harming yourself or your infant, seek immediate medical help. If depression is diagnosed, you may need to be followed closely for at least 6 months.

 

[epiphany]

Additionally, she may again have experienced PPD after her subsequent pregnancies:

According to the National Institute of Mental Health, women with a prior history of postpartum depression have a 50% chance of recurrence.

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/postpartum_depression.htm#causes

 

[tlcya]

If she did suffer from PPD in subsequent pregnancies, perhaps she had a much better relationship and support sytstem in place with her other two children.

supining

 

[Pondering Mind]

Additionally, she may again have experienced PPD after her subsequent pregnancies:

According to the National Institute of Mental Health, women with a prior history of postpartum depression have a 50% chance of recurrence.

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/postpartum_depression.htm#causes

nor do we know whether or not she suffered from depression before even getting pregnant..just sayin..she may have..

 

[LCoastMom]

BBM

That's a very good question which I would like to learn to answer to as well.

IMO at the very least (even if AB was telling Zahra lies) ZB should have been told (positive things!) about her mum by KB.

I understand that grandma took care of ZB and made sure she had proper medical treatment, and I don't doubt that she may now be grieving but she STILL did Zahra and Emily wrong in the very worst way by not making sure ZH knew her mum as well as afforded the ability to visit with Emily (who by the way had joint legal custody as of 2001 and paid child support).

OT/ I also don't see KB advancing any effort to recover Zahra in any way. I find that curious. jmoo

BBM - Doesn't it just feel like this wasn't the case?

I'd be willing to bet Zahra was told 'your mum doesn't want you' and I'll bet she regularly heard why from EB.

The "reported" comments between KB and ED on the now deleted FB/MS accts makes me think KB was no help to Zahra in this regard. Poor, sweet child.

 

[saqqara]

For all intents and purpose it helps to view ZB's biological mother in the same mind frame as if she had placed her daughter for adoption. Although we have indications now that she was searching for her, we have no indication that she officially every sought to recover her. As a parent who placed a child for adoption, I am not being unfairly harsh or slandering her with this statement. It appears that she for whatever reason walked out of Zahra's life at birth and believed that Zahra was in better care with her father, because of her medical issues (depression).

Although she must now have serious regret about her choices, I find the sympathy and assumptions that she was greatly wrong a bit over done.

I have reconnected with the child I placed for adoption. Make no mistake, the victory of her his accomplishments and the sorrow over his difficulties belong to him and the parents that raised him when I chose not to. I googled him often, tried to assure myself he was safe and growing, but I did not contact him because I had no right to, I gave up that right when I walked away. And in my humble opinion that seems to be what happened here, and unfortunate or not it has no bearing on the tragedy that unfolded. In fact any bearing it does have is that some measure of credit should be given to AB for staying stepped up to the plate in a situation many young men would have not risen to. This does not negate any bad choices he mad later.

 

[vjlaw]

For all intents and purpose it helps to view ZB's biological mother in the same mind frame as if she had placed her daughter for adoption. Although we have indications now that she was searching for her, we have no indication that she officially every sought to recover her. As a parent who placed a child for adoption, I am not being unfairly harsh or slandering her with this statement. It appears that she for whatever reason walked out of Zahra's life at birth and believed that Zahra was in better care with her father, because of her medical issues (depression).

Although she must now have serious regret about her choices, I find the sympathy and assumptions that she was greatly wrong a bit over done.

I have reconnected with the child I placed for adoption. Make no mistake, the victory of her his accomplishments and the sorrow over his difficulties belong to him and the parents that raised him when I chose not to. I googled him often, tried to assure myself he was safe and growing, but I did not contact him because I had no right to, I gave up that right when I walked away. And in my humble opinion that seems to be what happened here, and unfortunate or not it has no bearing on the tragedy that unfolded. In fact any bearing it does have is that some measure of credit should be given to AB for staying stepped up to the plate in a situation many young men would have not risen to. This does not negate any bad choices he mad later.

I am not sure he stepped up to the plate or just sat on the bench. I think KB took care of Zahra and the AU government took care of healthcare. In this country parents have to find away to provide that for their children. It seems he did not do that as we have seen no evidence that he sought medical help for her. jmo

 

[Virgogalsue]

Someone (I apologize for not remembering who) posted a very well written article about how abusive and controlling men can manipulate the court system in cases of custody and access.

I thought that I had saved the article...but apparently I didn't.

Can anyone help direct me back to that article??

Thanks!!!!!!