Zellner Tweets

[IDK]

SA's blood in TH's SUV is devastating evidence for SA. If proof of planting cannot be achieved then SA doesn't have a good chance for exoneration (IMO).

What about the lack of commingling with TH's blood?

 

[Safeguard]

It looks like Zellner has narrowed the suspects to JR, and RH...
http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...9/q-10-key-issues-steven-avery-case/89540604/

 

[Karinna]

It looks like Zellner has narrowed the suspects to JR, and RH...
http://www.postcrescent.com/story/n...9/q-10-key-issues-steven-avery-case/89540604/View attachment 100530

Yeah it's usually someone close to the victim or who they know fairly well in most murder cases. Interesting, and thanks for posting this up Safeguard.

 

[Karinna]

That would also make sense for RH hacking into Teresa's phone to delete numerous voicemails, they must of been incriminating toward him.
I wonder if Ms. Zellner was able to retrieve the content of the deleted V/mails?

 

[Sinsaint]

He told CA on the 31st that she didn't show up, so he did try to deny it initially.

Do you know if this was in reference to her showing up to photograph the van or the later request to come back out and photograph the loader?

 

[Sinsaint]

If it again shows no EDTA I doubt she will be making an announcement. If her testing claims it does then it means there are two different tests with two different results which will require a further test. The State will not be taking this lying down imo.

Zellner isn't looking for EDTA.

 

[krkrjx]

I would think she have to wait for the results of the testing before naming anyone, so why not just say that?

Yep, I agree, though there could be the chance she has someone watching some people to see how they react to what she says and documents she files. Will someone suddenly relocate? I am not sure the guilty party(ies) would feel the need at this juncture given someone is already convicted. But, imo, that doesn't mean people won't get antsy and get their guard up in a noticeable way, especially if the courts rule the right way.

I can't see any reason for anyone to object to further testing or whatever KZ feels necessary to prove or disprove some things. Both sides should be interested in the truth, right?

 

[krkrjx]

SA's blood in TH's SUV is devastating evidence for SA. If proof of planting cannot be achieved then SA doesn't have a good chance for exoneration (IMO).

Maybe not exoneration, but there could be enough questions raised that a judge could overturn the conviction and SA could get a new trial in which he might be found not guilty, depending on what issues his new defense uses to show reasonable doubt.

 

[Sinsaint]

Well he is evil, but not a genius. Funny when he tried to blame the murder on his brothers in his 2009 motion for a new trial, he did use it against them. So...

He wasn't blaming his brothers in that appeal. He was pointing out how inept the investigation was by showing other people on the property were not investigated.

 

[Karinna]

Yep, I agree, though there could be the chance she has someone watching some people to see how they react to what she says and documents she files. Will someone suddenly relocate? I am not sure the guilty party(ies) would feel the need at this juncture given someone is already convicted. But, imo, that doesn't mean people won't get antsy and get their guard up in a noticeable way, especially if the courts rule the right way. I can't see any reason for anyone to object to further testing or whatever she feels necessary to prove or disprove some things. Both sides should be interested in the truth, right?

I would think by the release of this information she has more evidence against RH & JR that proves her case. She has sounded very confident in what she has said and we don't know everything yet. She knows what she is doing, her track record attests to that, All IMO.

 

[krkrjx]

I would think by the release of this information she has more evidence against RH & JR that proves her case. She has sounded very confident in what she has said and we don't know everything yet. She knows what she is doing, her track record attests to that, All IMO.

KZ does not win every case but her track record is quite remarkable. She is not one to just go running off at the mouth. I do not see her taking cases that are a long shot and even though this will be an uphill battle, she has something to go on or she would not be going on. She's a busy person and would not waste her time if she had nothing.

 

[Karinna]

KZ does not win every case but her track record is quite remarkable. She is not one to just go running off at the mouth. I do not see her taking cases that are a long shot and even though this will be an uphill battle, she has something to go on or she would not be going on. She's a busy person and would not waste her time if she had nothing.

Yes you're right and i agree, although i couldn't imagine her losing too many cases. But no one's perfect i guess. She does great work and puts up a lot of her own money if she feels someone has been wrongfully convicted. I admire her efforts.

 

[missy1974]

Do you know if this was in reference to her showing up to photograph the van or the later request to come back out and photograph the loader?

Along with that, I would like to see a statement from Charles saying this. Or his trial testimony, oh wait....

The only thing in the CASO report that mentions this comment is from Fabian and Earl. Pages 208 and 236 specifically.

Fabian does testify in the trial, but this is not mentioned at all. His testimony starts on page 108 https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1nzus-fCQcoZEpQR29QX1BSMnM/view This seems like pretty important information if true, why is not brought up in court? In his testimony he does say he got there around 4:45-4:50, when was that last call to TH from SA? Hmmm and he saw SA by the salvage yard buildings, not killing TH?

I'm not sure that we can take much in these CASO reports as truth though, especially after seeing the CASO report compared to JR's actual statement ... big difference between a large fire behind SA's trailer and a large fire contained to a 55 gallon drum.

JMO

 

[missy1974]

I would think by the release of this information she has more evidence against RH & JR that proves her case. She has sounded very confident in what she has said and we don't know everything yet. She knows what she is doing, her track record attests to that, All IMO.

The article you posted early this morning/last night, was from April. At that time it sounded like she believed it was a male close to TH. What we have heard recently is that someone is talking and now JR seems to be on her radar.... JR, is not close to TH. So something definitely changed her mind since April.... I can't help but wonder about that red trailer at the deer camp that was sold and gone within a year of her disappearance..... did someone tip KZ off (JR employee? family?), did she find the trailer and do testing?

 

[Karinna]

The article you posted early this morning/last night, was from April. At that time it sounded like she believed it was a male close to TH. What we have heard recently is that someone is talking and now JR seems to be on her radar.... JR, is not close to TH. So something definitely changed her mind since April.... I can't help but wonder about that red trailer at the deer camp that was sold and gone within a year of her disappearance..... did someone tip KZ off (JR employee? family?), did she find the trailer and do testing?

Hi missy, yeah anything is possible. I am fairly new to this case and not well versed in some of the other players in it, so was wondering what the relationship might be between RH & JR? Were they well known to each other? TIA.

 

[Karinna]

Hi missy, yeah anything is possible. I am fairly new to this case and not well versed in some of the other players in it, so was wondering what the relationship might be between RH & JR? Were they well known to each other? TIA.

From reading the information from KZ, it seems there are 4 players she mentions. That being RH, JR, JL & AC. Wonder how those 4 tie into each other and how such an elaborate plan would of been executed to set up SA?

 

[missy1974]

Karinna I don't think there has been any connection made between JR and RH, here or elsewhere.

I also think what Zellner was saying in her motion was that JR or RH are responsible for the murder and as a separate issue, JL and/or AC were part of the "framing". She doesn't accuse all LE of being part of the frame job, she is quite specific with pointing the finger at those 2.

IMO there could have been 2 different frame jobs going on at the same time, and the separate parties weren't aware of the other LOL For example.... if JR did it, it would have been in close enough proximity to shift the evidence over to the Avery's... the RAV4, the bones, the electronics. If RH did it... if he knew she had just come from SA's, take the RAV4, the bones, the electronics there and dump them. I can come up with issues for both scenario's in light of this motion though.... the tower ping is an issue for me if JR is responsible. The logistics of dumping the RAV4 and getting a ride back to wherever is an issue for me with RH.

As far as JL and AC. They could have been planting evidence to ensure a conviction, ya know, make sure this one sticks! Let's look at some of the evidence that surrounds those two:

License plates ~ could they have been found by 1 of them in another location and thrown into the vehicle they were found in so it looked bad for SA?
Key ~ could it have been found in the RAV4 and strategically (and poorly LOL) placed in SA's bedroom?
blood ~ ugggh so many thoughts on the blood LOL

I'm sure there is more that I can't think of right at the moment LOL But I don't think they needed to plant the bones, the bones could have been put there by the person responsible for the murder, right? Or I guess they could have put them there if they were found elsewhere too.... like a quarry or deer camp :scared:

If you read through the CASO report, it's evident that Lenk/Colborn were everywhere! They were at Kuss Rd (where a dog tracked), they were all over the Salvage Yard, they were in and out of all the residences, it is logical to assume that if there is planting in this case, it was one or both of these 2 that are responsible. Not to mention they were the one's that sat for depositions earlier that month. I doubt they liked being accused of anything.

 

[Sinsaint]

What about the lack of commingling with TH's blood?

He used a tissue.

 

[Karinna]

Karinna I don't think there has been any connection made between JR and RH, here or elsewhere.

I also think what Zellner was saying in her motion was that JR or RH are responsible for the murder and as a separate issue, JL and/or AC were part of the "framing". She doesn't accuse all LE of being part of the frame job, she is quite specific with pointing the finger at those 2.

IMO there could have been 2 different frame jobs going on at the same time, and the separate parties weren't aware of the other LOL For example.... if JR did it, it would have been in close enough proximity to shift the evidence over to the Avery's... the RAV4, the bones, the electronics. If RH did it... if he knew she had just come from SA's, take the RAV4, the bones, the electronics there and dump them. I can come up with issues for both scenario's in light of this motion though.... the tower ping is an issue for me if JR is responsible. The logistics of dumping the RAV4 and getting a ride back to wherever is an issue for me with RH.

As far as JL and AC. They could have been planting evidence to ensure a conviction, ya know, make sure this one sticks! Let's look at some of the evidence that surrounds those two:

License plates ~ could they have been found by 1 of them in another location and thrown into the vehicle they were found in so it looked bad for SA?
Key ~ could it have been found in the RAV4 and strategically (and poorly LOL) placed in SA's bedroom?
blood ~ ugggh so many thoughts on the blood LOL

I'm sure there is more that I can't think of right at the moment LOL But I don't think they needed to plant the bones, the bones could have been put there by the person responsible for the murder, right? Or I guess they could have put them there if they were found elsewhere too.... like a quarry or deer camp :scared:

If you read through the CASO report, it's evident that Lenk/Colborn were everywhere! They were at Kuss Rd (where a dog tracked), they were all over the Salvage Yard, they were in and out of all the residences, it is logical to assume that if there is planting in this case, it was one or both of these 2 that are responsible. Not to mention they were the one's that sat for depositions earlier that month. I doubt they liked being accused of anything.

Thanks for clarifying about RH & JR. Thanks also for your thoughts on all you have set out in your post. There certainly is a lot to think about, but i think in due course all will be revealed and will be much clearer. I hope so anyway. As Ms Zellner stated she will take the mystery out of the mystery.

 

[missy1974]

I think for myself the bigger question would be was there any other way SA's blood could of been obtained for "planting" in the Rav4 vehicle other than having had it come from a vial of his blood that has been held in evidence? He did in fact have a fairly bad cut on his finger didn't he? That would of yielded blood not contained in a vial and if he had of discarded bandaids or whatever he used to stop the bleeding could that fresh blood of his been lifted from something else and a bit of water added to it if dried to make it liquefy again to plant?

ugggh rabbit hole, here I go... jumping in... :hills:

JMO but here are my issues with the RAV4 blood. I cheated and went back to an old post of mine http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?298490-DNA-What-does-the-evidence-say/page5 Here is part of my post from then:

Nick Stahlke testified that his estimated amount of blood for all the stains in the RAV4 would be 1-2ml's (not including TH's blood) Day 12 pages 26/27. I went looking for the testimony again just now, and I read something that I found odd and stuck out to me ....

A. About the only thing I can tell you is that a natural stain would -- or a drop of blood contains about a .05 milliliters.

so if a natural drop of blood is .05ml, and there were 6 .... that should have been .30ml's, but he estimates it was 1-2ml's.

So, if we have a 10ml vial. There was 5.5ml when the FBI got it, LabCorp writes that they consumed 1ml, and Stahlke testifies to estimating 1-2ml of SA blood in the RAV4.... we have at most 8.5ml of blood total if adding them all.

The amount of blood in the vial has always bothered me. I still have not found the answer to this question btw LOL

Add to this.... LeBeau (the EDTA/FBI guy) testified that not only did he not do presumptive blood tests on the swab or the cut of the swab that he tested, he didn't even test it to make sure it was SA's. So what if they cut a part to test it that didn't even have blood on it? How do we know the swab even had SA's blood on it? He said it was reported as being that and that was is. When he was asked if he did these test, he said "no sir, I'm not a qualified serologist" What?? LOL This line of questioning can be found here https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1nzus-fCQcod1J2blYwcG01M0U/view on page 225-226 I understand that this is only a small portion of his testimony, but it's pretty important, isn't it? I mean, if you are going to be testing for EDTA in the blood, it should be confirmed that you are actually testing blood, right? and at least testing the right person's blood? JMO