Zellner Tweets

[Karinna]

I think the worst part of this case was that Avery & Dassey were never afforded the presumption of innocence as is everyone's constitutional right. I think LE knew right away who they were going to find guilty without ever investigating anyone else who was close to Teresa Halbach.

 

[dexter75]

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...rial-Exhibit-359-Avery-Call-Log-2005Oct31.pdf

He called them at 8:12am from his cell phone, without the *67.

the toll free number can be verified with this document that was also part of the trial:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...nd-362-Auto-Trader-Appt-and-Phone-Records.pdf

took me a minute or 2 to verify it, I knew we had, but couldn't find it with google.

Not very sneaky IMO

:yourock:
IMO
In case I haven't mentioned it lately
:tyou:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Maybe he didn't want her to have his number on her personal cell, but decided after the photo shoot, it was not really a big deal to him, so he didn't bother to block that last call? I am just not seeing it as a huge issue. Some may see it as, he didn't bother blocking that last call, cause he knew she was dead, and made the last call trying to locate her phone (or whatever), and didn't need to block it, at that point.

But if he was all that crafty, why would he want to leave a record of that last call? Why not just look for the darn phone, it couldn't have *gone* that far* ( just thinking out loud).
I agree this keep going around in circles. It's brought up a lot, by the He's Guilty-ers...The significance is just lost on me.

Sorry, but I have to be honest. I do think its very significant and I think his jury thought so too. Its just not typical behavior. Has someone who you are going to do a job for ever blocked their number when calling you about that service so you couldn't see it was them calling?

Maybe he was trying to set it up to look like she never arrived? Did he leave a voicemail? If so, what did he say? tia

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think the worst part of this case was that Avery & Dassey were never afforded the presumption of innocence as is everyone's constitutional right. I think LE knew right away who they were going to find guilty without ever investigating anyone else who was close to Teresa Halbach.

How long did they take before they arrested him? Although in many cases the suspect or suspects were arrested the very same day and were convicted. Did they arrest them the day they found her vehicle?

 

[dexter75]

The state is now trying to make that a lot of these pieces that weren't in the movie (were) more sinister than they really were," Buting said.

Among the details missing in the series was that Avery called Halbach three times on the day of her murder.

"With regard to this for instance, also left out was the fact that he called and made an appointment to the office," Buting said. "If he had her cell phone number and was trying to lure her, why would you call the office and create a paper trail? You would just call her directly and no one would ever know that he'd come here. Instead, he goes to the office."
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/making-a-murderer-steven-avery-defense-attorneys-fire-back-critics/

Um, exactly

 

[Karinna]

I think all that the phone calls do is add confusion to this case, IMO. And i don't think if i was a juror i could convict someone on the phone info. being discussed here. There would have to be much more compelling evidence than that to sentence someone to life in prison for me. All IMO.

 

[Karinna]

How long did they take before they arrested him? Although in many cases the suspect or suspects were arrested the very same day and were convicted. Did they arrest them the day they found her vehicle?

The point of my post was that LE were going to pin this on Avery and Dassey was going to help nail that conviction without doing a thorough investigation of other people TH was involved with and had been close to in her life. If anyone killed her IMO it was someone she knew.

 

[Karinna]

And besides it's no secret that TH had an appointment to take photos of a vehicle at the Avery property that day.

 

[missy1974]

Testimony from Dawn from AutoTrader: *** I would like to note that I don't necessarily believe everything she says though LOL

8 A. I couldn't quite make him out because he was very

9 hard to understand. The closest I got was the

10 initial B. Janda.

11 Q. This man said that he wanted the photographer who

12 had been out there before; did he identify by

13 name that person?

14 A. No, he did not.

15 Q. Did he provide you an address where he wanted

16 this photo to be taken?

17 A. Yes, he did.

18 Q. Do you remember what that was?

19 A. I don't remember the exact number, but it was

20 something B Avery Road.

This is from her statement she gave to police on November 3rd:

DAWN states they had received a phone call from somebody who identified himselfTherself as B.
JANDA. DAWN states she knows the JANDAS are basically the AVERY brothers. She states
they have done work for them before and she does not know why they give the name of B.
JANDA.


Barb Janda owned the van that was being photographed that day. Nothing odd there. Just like like Craig Sippel called AutoTrader to photograph a vehicle that was at Steven Schmitz house and address, and was her first appointment that day.

And apparently on November 3rd, Dawn knew Janda's were basically the Avery's.... huh!

 

[Karinna]

@Oceanblueeyes, Steven Avery was first arrested on the 9th. of November. TH was reported missing on the 3rd. November.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Sorry, but I have to be honest. I do think its very significant and I think his jury thought so too. Its just not typical behavior. Has someone who you are going to do a job for ever blocked their number when calling you about that service so you couldn't see it was them calling?

Maybe he was trying to set it up to look like she never arrived? Did he leave a voicemail? If so, what did he say? tia

I agree that Steven Avery's behavior is not typical and I would have to say very suspicious. JMO

 

[Karinna]

I didn't realise the Halbach's filed a wrongful death suit against Avery on Feb. 15th.

 

[Karinna]

I agree that Steven Avery's behavior is not typical and I would have to say very suspicious. JMO

But you can't convict someone on just suspicion. There has to be evidence against them. What about some of the other players in this case that acted suspiciously as well?

 

[Karinna]

I would say TH's deleted phone messages or texts or whatever he deleted from her phone by her ex b/friend were more suspicious than what Avery did in a couple of phone calls and the way he made them.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

But you can't convict someone on just suspicion. There has to be evidence against them. What about some of the other players in this case that acted suspiciously as well?

I'm not convicting anyone. I'm on the fence in regards to Steven Avery's guilt.

I'm just pointing out how I feel about his behavior.

 

[dexter75]

BBM

I BOLDED what I felt made wonderful sense

Thank you, Missy

I hadn't thought about him not knowing her name. Now that you mention it, it makes perfect sense.

My friends & I used to do this too, when multiple last names were listed of *ahem* friends, *67 & HANG UP when we didn't get who we were looking for lol!!

Like Avery, once we got the correct person on the line & confirmed we had the right number, we would just call back not blocked a bit later & no one was the wiser:innocent:

Again, as your opinion states, calling the COMPANY to say " send the same girl as last time " isn't being sneaky at all. Knowing they at AT would HAVE to look into their records to see who it was they sent last time. KNOWING a MALE & most likely KNOWING it was Avery on the phone, making the appointment for AVERY RD.

So he made it in Barb's name, so what. Barbs van.
Maybe he didn't want to be stuck with the bill & from the get go he wanted it known this was BARBS deal.
Maybe tax/financial reasons?

This *67 stuff?..Nothing.
JMO

Your statement probably has different meaning than it does to me LOL

But I have wondered if he *67 when he called her because he wasn't sure it was the "autotrader girl". According to Dawn (ugggh do we believe her? LOL), he didn't know her name, just said the same girl as last time. He did have her number written down, but I don't think it had Teresa, or AutoTrader, or anything beside it. Maybe he just wasn't sure it was her number, so he *67 it when he called in the afternoon.

I think it was common for Teresa to leave an AT magazine and her card after she took the photo's and part of that was so she could possibly get direct bookings because she got paid substantially more for those hustle shots. Once she was there, and she gave him the standard package that she left, he knew it was her number.

What makes me question that he lured her is....

He did not *67 when he called AutoTrader first thing in the morning. Who does that if you don't want them to know it's you? We know he knew how to use *67, why not use it to set up the appointment then.
He requested the same girl as last time. Who does that if you are luring? I would have expected him to call as if he was a new client.
]Using Barb's name isn't suspect to me because it was her vehicle.
He gave them the address... AVERY ROAD.... anyone else live on Avery Road other than the Avery family and the Avery Salvage Yard?

 

[Karinna]

I'm not convicting anyone. I'm on the fence in regards to Steven Avery's guilt.

I'm just pointing out how I feel about his behavior.

I didn't think you were trying to convince anyone. It's what i would call "lively debate", I couldn't say i am 100% convinced about SA's guilt and remain open to what happens in the future in regard to this case. All good.

 

[Safeguard]

Hi Ranch. Great to 'see' you. I think we are in the minority here don't cha think?

RSBM

Hi Oceanblueeyes! If you ever want to feel really, REALLY marginalized and "in the minority", go on the Jon Benay Ramsey forum and say you think the Ramesies are innocent! ROTFLOL!. (Not that I think that or anything... * Looks over shoulder nervously*).

Now about that DNA....

You posted, "Also to me how could they find Teresa's DNA on the bullet when she was burned and the bones were severely fragmented and charred when they first came there. What kind of DNA was found of hers on the bullet?. How would LE be able to get her clean DNA with all the contaminates from the fire that would comingle?'

I'm sorry I didn't know how to grab that quote more 'expertly', but I want to thank you for it. This is a very good point imo. "How" indeed!

 

[dexter75]

BBM

I wonder why he asked for the same girl as last time. Did someone else do a poor job and he didn't want them? Why not say "Don't send the person who did the job poorly".

Maybe depends on the type of person you are?

Some, the good people/experiences come to mind first! Some, the bad.

Maybe the first thing that popped into HIS head was not the poor job the one girl did, but the great job Teresa did!:thinking:
JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I didn't think you were trying to convince anyone. It's what i would call "lively debate", I couldn't say i am 100% convinced about SA's guilt and remain open to what happens in the future in regard to this case. All good.

I said that I'm not trying to "convict" anyone. I would also say that I'm not trying to "convince" any members to change the minds about this case.