GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #3

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"The defence has previously claimed that the absence of Ms Harnum's fingerprints on the balcony railing could be explained by the trained dancer doing a "ballerina-type leap" on to the top of the railing before jumping over the edge."

^ If this wasn't so extremely sickening, I would have laughed at this. REALLY?

THAT is what they said out loud in a court of law?

:facepalm:

I know! To high jump (calling all men) requires a run up. In ballet as a youth it requires at least a few leaps to gain the momentum. I think this case has been reported without the background of the skill. God help me if the say Allison Baden-Clay leapt to her death as a youth ballerina. No less she was discovered UNDER a bridge.

Moo
 
I'm about as far from being a ballerina as it gets (if you don't count the Disney hippos...) and even --I-- know a leap like that is totally implausible. What a crap way to try to blame the victim.

That comment just smacked to me of sheer desperation -- the case for the defence was all but dead in the water from the get-go, and they knew it, and were clutching at anything they could.

Suffa in ya jocks, is all I have left to say to Gittany and his victim bashing lawyers.
 
Respectfully snipped by me.

A person has died, and an other person has lost his freedom.

A mother has lost a daughter with the grief that has no definitive time of ending.

Two worlds don't collide over a balcony toss.

Moo

I guess what I was trying to say is that two people (LH and SG) both came from very different backgrounds and upbringings, different sets of morals, one good, one bad and unfortunately they happened to meet each other in their course of their lives and it all ended disastrously. :tears:
 
In any case, I NEED a TIMELINE! If I have time, I will construct one....

I feel the same. I started one - looking initially at the final 48 hours of Lisa's life, but it became really apparent going through the verdict that it was really the events of the final week that needed to be examined.

The main thing that struck me was Lisa's relationship with Lisa Brown and Michelle Richmond. Those two BEAUTIFUL, AMAZING women, had only very recently come into her life. I am so very very thankful that Lisa had them in her life for such a brief time.

You might argue that Michelle was just "doing her job" - but I think both went above and beyond the call of duty - especially Lisa Brown.

They inspire me, but also fill me with a sense of guilt, in my own life. How many times do we encounter someone at the shops, or in our working lives - that we can sense needs help? And sure, I might offer money, or a conversation - but these two women COMMITTED to a person at the time she needed them most. They opened up their hearts, and sadly, as the ACA interview showed when Michelle recounted her disbelief "I didn't think he would kill her" , they will always hurt deeply for someone they cared for in such a short space of time. So brave. I'm feeling like a bit of an inadequate human by comparison. Too easy to not get involved. Too easy to give a bandaid and fix the surface but not dig deeper.....

Anyway - I'll tidy up my timeline a little - and then we can all evolve it as a group. I'm sure there are things I've missed!!! I'll post it soon!
 
Ausgirl, You took my words!! Unbelievable (not that you took my words) ... but that it was said out loud in a court of law! And considered CREDIBLE!

Considered so credible that it was accepted as 'exceptional circumstances', the ballerina leap that is, leading to a suicide possibility. Gullible magistrate. And what other mischief did he get up to in his bail time out?
 
I guess what I was trying to say is that two people (LH and SG) both came from very different backgrounds and upbringings, different sets of morals, one good, one bad and unfortunately they happened to meet each other in their course of their lives and it all ended disastrously. :tears:

Thank you JJ, I did misunderstand what you posted.

Only because in the Sunday Papers it said she was a favourite amongst 'the boys'. If you are attractive it is not a girls problem. My Best Friend in high school was a model in print and TV. Boys aren't seeing the photographic girl. They are taller than everyone and have a gait. Only because they have long legs.

Moo
 
Gittany has had a few different lawyers from the time he was first arrested for Lisa’s murder.

MSM January 20 2012
Mr Gittany's lawyer, Elias Tabchouri, launched a vociferous attack on the evidence of the key prosecution witness in the case - a man who allegedly heard screaming from the 15th floor of the building as he walked to work through Hyde Park.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/man-accus...ranted-bail-20120119-1q8cv.html#ixzz2mDZJSZry

MSM March 31 2012
Robert Richter QC, has previously told a Supreme Court bail hearing that Ms Harnum was a ''ballerina'', suggesting she could have leapt over the ledge, and subsequently to her death, ''quite easily''.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/family-un...eath-plunge-20120330-1w3iq.html#ixzz2mDYyptvd

MSM January 17, 2013
Gittany's lawyer, Tony Bellanto QC, said the relationship was a "hot and cold" one but there was no evidence Ms Harnum feared violence at the hands of Gittany.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...y-e6frg6nf-1226555912708#sthash.l1iRrNgS.dpuf

MSM October 18 2013
He was a granted a judge-alone trial, to begin on Monday, because it would be two weeks shorter than a trial by jury, allowing him to save money on legal representation by solicitor Abigail Bannister.
Mr Gittany has been refused legal aid because he doesn't meet the requirements.
He has borrowed money from friends and family and dropped Phillip Strickland SC, but is still desperate for cash.

http://www.stockandland.com.au/news...lerina-fiancee-avoids-jury-trial/2675347.aspx

MSM October 22 2013
His barrister, Phillip Strickland SC, asserts that the pair had a troubled but ultimately loving relationship.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/lisa-harn...-court-told-20131022-2vy8u.html#ixzz2mDdZXVcx


I guess on October 18 he took solicitor Abigail Bannister to court, said he dropped Phillip Strickland, he didn't have enough money, couldn't afford the lengthy jury trial. Then after he was granted the judge-only trial, and just 4 days later, Phillip Strickland miraculously became his lawyer again!
(Legal manouevering :notgood: .... thank goodness it all worked out fine in the end, justice was served.)


(ETA: From what I can find, the lawyers all came from different firms.)
 
I've just found some interesting info in regard to the Today Tonight debacle during SG's trial. I was reading about a book written by Kay Schubach titled Perfect Stranger. This is a true story of the horror that Kay suffered at the hands of her narcissisic and violent boyfriend. A story that eerily mirrors that of Lisa Harnum.

I was surprised to read a post on Kay's Facebook (posted 8 November 2013) where she mentions that there was nearly a contempt of court charge for Today Tonight. The episode was going ahead but she wouldn't be included in it.

https://www.facebook.com/perfectstrangerkayschubach

It seems that Today Tonight was going to hightlight and compare the close similarities between Kay Schubach and Lisa Harnum, who both were in relationships with a violent, controlling partner. Ironically both of these men are named Simon. I recall the advertised snippets of that particular Today Tonight episode and the woman who was interviewed looks very much like Kay Schubach.

Further reading about Kay Schubach.

my-life-with-the-playboy-rapist-by-kay-schubach/story-e6freuy9-1226281574197

kay-schubach-author-of-perfect-stranger-answers-ten-terrifying-questions/


Good find Makara ... at least now we know what THAT was all about!
 
I've also been wondering if and when any of SG's past girlfriends will start surfacing from the woodwork to add their stories. Surely he hasn't just had two relationships in his life. There didn't seem to be any lining up to provide character references at his trial. :snooty:
 
I've also been wondering if and when any of SG's past girlfriends will start surfacing from the woodwork to add their stories. Surely he hasn't just had two relationships in his life. There didn't seem to be any lining up to provide character references at his trial. :snooty:

Well, there was the ex-girlfriend mentioned (when he was 18, was it?) where he beat up the girl's boyfriend/boss while his mates held the guy down.

But I bet there is a whole string of them out there somewhere.
 
Timeline of the last week of Lisa Harnum's Life

Notes: I began creating a final 24 hours timeline, however it is really relevant to include Lisa’s preparations to leave. I have deliberately left out a great deal of SG’s alleged version of events, because the overwhelming position in the judgement was that he was not to be trusted. It has also been really difficult, due to international time zones to pinpoint the exact times of conversations and the content of those between Lisa and her mother. I am sorry if anything is incorrect – please tell me!

I tried to break down the bits we knew with tags like "TEXT MESSAGE" etc. Some of them aren't the greatest headings, just how my mind works. Where a timestamp wasnt available, I've used **.** and given an approximation in brackets. It's not a pretty document (attached) because its still a WIP



Monday 25th July, 2011

**.**am – INTERACTION – exact time unknown – Personal Training Session with Lisa Brown on the Balcony. (Paragraph 155)

**.**am/pm – RELATIONSHIP – exact time unknown – SG exceptionally angry that she had a workout in view of other people – after refusing to allow her to train at the beach. (Paragraph 156, Paragraph 157, Paragraph 158, Paragraph 165)

Tuesday 26th July, 2011

**.**am – RELATIONSHIP – exact time unknown (“All morning until appointment”) – SG is yelling at LH until she is collected by MR. (Paragraph 159)

**.**am – INTERACTION – exact time unknown. Lisa Harnum had her second session with Michelle Richmond. Ms Richmond collected her on her way to the office. Escape plan of moving items to storage is hatched. (paragraph 157)

Wednesday 27th July, 2011

(Did LH work out with LB this day? )

8.30pm – MISSED CALL / VOICEMAIL – Lisa tries to contact Michelle Richmond. Miss Harnum left a voice message in which, according to Ms Richmond's statement to police, her voice sounded distressed. (Paragraph 166)

8.32pm – TEXT MESSAGE – MR to LH : “In a dinner meeting are you ok” (Paragraph 166)

**.**pm – TEXT MESSAGE – LH to MR: “ Hi Michelle. Sorry to call you late. Just upset. We can talk tomorrow if you are busy. Don't want to be away to long. Have a beautiful evening honey x” (Paragraph 167)

8.46pm – TEXT MESSAGES - MR to LH: “Call me back I'm just hanging” And then a further text:”Hun call me” (Paragraph 169)

**.**pm – TEXT MESSAGE – LH to MR: “Sorry honey. I can't talk right now. Can I call you later. Everything is ok. Just with Simon at the moment xx” (Paragraph 170)

**.**pm – TEXT MESSAGE – MR to LH: “Any time I'm up until late” (Paragraph 170)

**.**pm – MISSED CALLS – MR to LH, Later that evening Ms Richmond tried several times to call Lisa Harnum on her phone. (Paragraph 171)

**.**pm – TEXT MESSAGE – MR to LH “Sorry I think My phone accidentally kept calling you when it was in my bag apologies Michelle.” - Michelle was concerned due to how "reactive" Lisa Harnum had said the accused was that he might be angry that she had called so many times. (Paragraph 171)

**.**pm – TEXT MESSAGE – LH to MR: “That's ok. Was wondering if everything was ok. Have a good night Michelle.” (Paragraph 172)

Thursday 28th July, 2011

**.**am - EMAIL – time not stated (“Shortly after midnight") Lisa Harnum sent an email to Metro Storage at Bondi seeking storage space (Paragraph173)

9.39am – RELATIONSHIP – SG departs the apartment for a meeting. (Paragraph174)

9.56am – TEXT MESSAGE – SG to LH: “ I'm heading out west as I have meeting today @ 12 & either before it or after it I want to put side steps on. I have prayed about our situation & I am confused about what to do. I don't want us to regret this decision years from now. I have gym later so will talk then”. (Paragraph174)

11.29am – RELATIONSHIP – LH leaves the apartment for training (Paragraph 176)

**.**am – INTERACTION – (Some time soon after in the lobby of The Hyde) – Ms Brown arrived at The Hyde, Miss Harnum met her in the lobby. Ms Brown stated that she was "very agitated andnervous and I would say jumpy" Ms Brown gave the following account of their conversation : “She told me that she was planning to leave Simon and that Michelle Richmond had told her that it was ok to give me some clothes and things of hers for me to look after until she was able to leave”. Ms Brown described Lisa Harnum as looking "petrified". She said "she kept looking around everywhere, nervously, looking to see if anybody was around" . They went to the gym, where Lisa Harnum had hidden two pillow cases full of clothes and shoes behind some equipment. They took the pillow cases downstairs to Ms Brown's car. They then went back up to the gym on the eighth floor but did not train. They just talked. Ms Brown said that Lisa Harnum was talking about the accused and "the way that things were for her and how she felt about things and how unhappy she was" Ms Brown said that Lisa Harnum told her she wanted to leave the accused but she wanted to stay in Australia and that she was worried that if she left him she wouldn't be able to stay because of the visa. Lisa Harnum told Ms Brown that she had no friends, that she missed her friends and that she wanted to live a different life. She said that she missed working as a hairdresser and that the accused did not want her to work and that he would give her money and she did not have to work but she wanted to and she wanted to go back into hairdressing. Ms Brown told Lisa Harnum that, if she wanted to leave, Michelle would "know the right people from her work". Ms Brown stated - I said if her current situation was worse than the fear of the unknown then that was the time that she would know was right to leave. (Paragraph 176, Paragraph 177, Paragraph 178, Paragraph 179)

1.30pm – INTERACTION - Lisa Harnum took a bag of personal possessions to Metro Storage in Bondi. She listed Michelle Richmond and Lisa Brown as people who should have access. She planned to return with more
clothes (Paragraph 182)

3.59pm – RELATIONSHIP – SG returns to the apartment. (Paragraph 183)

4.46pm – RELATIONSHIP – SG exits the apartment and goes to the gym (Paragraph 183)

5.52pm – TEXT MESSAGE – LH to MR: “ Hi Michelle. I just wanted to touch base with you as I know you are really busy today. I spoke to Lisa today and have (sic) her a few bags to give to you. I opened up to her about a few things as I am sure the pillow cases full of clothes was a bit odd. He was away most of the day so I packed another big bag of things and took it to a storage centre. He is coming home after training and I think he wants to talk. I am very nervous. I am so sorry to bother you Michelle. I hope you are having a good day honey x” (Paragraph 184)

**.**pm – TEXT MESSAGE – MR to LH: “Hi lovely you can call me I'm free now ... Say little and just listen keep breathing Mx “ (Paragraph 185)

**.**pm – PHONE CALL – LH to MR: Discussing how she was feeling, strategies for the conversation with SG. A warning, that if he comes home to just Hang Up! (Paragraph 186, Paragraph 187, Paragraph 188)

6.16pm – RELATIONSHIP – SG returns to the apartment (Paragraph 186, Paragraph 188).

**.**pm – RELATIONSHIP – SG checks monitoring program, finds message LH sent to MR. (Paragraph 189)

**.**pm – RELATIONSHIP – SG lies to LH and claims Lisa Brown told him about the clothes being stored { I said, "Cecilia, I know I spoke to Lisa Brown and I know that you gave her some bags."} (Paragraph 189)

**.**pm – MISSED CALL/VOICEMAIL – (sometime around 6pm) LH to Lisa Brown. Asking Ms Brown urgently to get in touch with her. Sounded "frantic" (Paragraph 192)

**.**pm – PHONE CALL - (At about 7pm) SG to Michelle Richmond from LH’s phone. No words on the other end of the line. (Paragraph 193)

**.**pm – PHONE CALL - (At about 7pm) - MR to LH’s phone. Calling back. Ms Richmond pretended she did not know who the call was from, saying "Hi, I just received a missed call from this number". SG launches tirade of abuse at MR: “Michelle, you ****ing *****, if you ever come near Cecilia again, try to contact or meet her, have anything to do with her, I know where you live. I will ****ing harm you.” And continues a “monologue of abuse” until MR hangs up. (Paragraph 193, Paragraph 194, Paragraph 195)

**.**pm – PHONE CALL - (after the above call) - MR to Lisa Brown, advises her not to call LH (Paragraph 199)

7.53pm – TEXT MESSAGE – LH’s phone to Michelle Richmond (likely message sent by SG): “Leave me alone you have ruined my relationship. Drop all my stuff off at my concierge by no later than tomorrow 10 am. OK?” (Paragraph 201)


Friday 29th July, 2011

**.**am – INTERACTION – (about 10 am) Lisa Brown returned the two pillow cases to the concierge at The Hyde apartment building. SG collected the bags from the concierge (Paragraph 214)

10:42am – PHONE CALL – LH to Joan Harnum (1hr 30 mins duration) Mrs Harnum said that Lisa told her that, when she got home after giving a bag to Lisa Brown, the accused came home; that he knew she had given a bag to Lisa Brown and put another in storage and that he was very angry with her. He took her to go and get the bag from Lisa and took her to get the bag from the lock up and bring it back to the apartment and then he said that that was very embarrassing for him to give the bag to Lisa{BROWN} because Lisa was from his gym. Mrs Harnum said Lisa told her that Simon had made her call both Lisa Brown and Michelle Richmond and tell them that she hated them and did not want to have anything further to do with them. Lisa told her the accused had: started yelling at her and telling her that she shouldn't embarrass him, that she was to do as she was told, that she should submit and he had her on her knees in front of him. He had her kneel in front of him. Mrs Harnum said Lisa told her that, after that incident, she felt very afraid and very sad. This may have been the “Mummy come and get me” call, and plans were first made. (Paragraphs 203-206, & Paragraph 215)

**.** am – RELATIONSHIP – LH goes to Department of Immigration about Visa. (Paragraph 218)

1.42pm – PHONE CALL – Lisa Harnum to Mr Granger (Immigration Lawyer) Enquiring about implications if she left to go to Canada on her residency status. (Paragraph 218, Paragraph 219)

**.**pm – PHONE CALL – (About 2pm) Lisa Harnum to Lisa Brown - She told me that I had told Simon about the clothes ... I told her that I hadn't ... I told her that I didn't say anything about the bags of clothes to Simon. I asked her why she would think that. She told me that Simon had said to her that I had told him about the bags of clothing on Thursday afternoon, the previous day, at George Street Platinum Fitness First. Ms Brown said that Lisa Harnum was very distressed during that conversation and said “ Please don't ever contact me again. I don't want to hear from you. You have ruined my life. Tell Michelle not to contact me.” Ms Brown said we were only here to help her, or words to the effect, if I recall, and I told her that I was always here for her and that I wished her love and light and she could call me at any time if she needed to. There was a male voice in the background. (Paragraphs 221-224)

2.17pm – TEXT MESSAGE – (likely, due to use of ampersand instead of the word and, to have been written by SG) LH to MR: “I wish I never met you because you have ruined my life & I have been kicked out of the house by simon. I had everything with simon but you brain washed me Michelle & now I am out on the street with nothing! I want the money I paid you for ruining my life as I am broke & need money. You should be ashamed of yourself. Thank you for this big mess you created! (Paragraph 229)


7.08 pm - TEXT MESSAGE - Mrs Harnum sent a message to Lisa Harnum saying "Hi sweetie. Are you ok?" (paragraph 235).

7:20 pm – INTERACTION - Mr Rokobaro arrives (paragraph 237).

8.24 pm – TEXT MESSAGE - Lisa Harnum replied to her mother's earlier text, "I am okay. How about you?"

**:** pm – PHONE CALL – time unknown, Lisa and Joan speak on the phone, approximately 8-10 mins (paragraph 243) Mr Rokobaro still present but nothing tendered about him witnessing a call.

9.15 pm – TEXT MESSAGE Mrs Harnum sent a text to Lisa Harnum saying that there was a flight on Friday coming back on Sunday "for 1600", presumably a reference to the price (paragraph 243).

**:** pm – TEXT MESSAGE – time unknown – timestamp error. Lisa later sent a text to her mother "Done. What airline? I'm okay x" (paragraph 244)

9.28 pm – INTERACTION - a man from a Thai restaurant delivered take away. The accused said Mr Rokobaro ate with them (paragraph 245)

9.37 pm – TEXT MESSAGE – JH to LH: “ Air canada and united. I will book from here. It is cheaper. How is everything “ (paragraph 246)

10.36 pm – TEXT MESSAGE – JH to LH: “ Good night sweetie. Sweet dreams. Love you. Xoxoxo” (paragraph 247)

11.27pm – TEXT MESSAGE – LH to JH: “I am okay mama, everything has calmed down. I told him you were coming down. Hope you still will. Let me know the dates and I will buy you a ticket. I will call You tomorrow when I can to talk to you more about it. Did you get tour (sic) results back from the doctor? I love you xoxoxoxo". (paragraph 248)

**:** pm – INTERACTION – time unknown – Rokabaro leaves, allegedly watch “Romeo and Juliet” (paragraph 250)



Saturday 30th July 2011


**:** am - TEXT MESSAGE - time unknown (Shortly after midnight) LH to JH: are you okay? (paragraph 251)

2.15 am - TEXT MESSAGE - Lisa wrote "good night mama. I hope you have a beautiful day today (paragraph 251)


Then…… we know that:

SG got up and looked at *advertiser censored* – 3/4/5am – fiddled with the cameras.

Telstra records 3 calls to Canada from the bathroom.

We have the footage of the attempt to leave, and the tragic result.


I’m still trying to piece together the calls to Joan and the likely content based on duration. (Sorry!)

I will edit this post (document) with updates and feedback from all of you when I have the chance (crazy work week this week) Ta!
 

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Well, there was the ex-girlfriend mentioned (when he was 18, was it?) where he beat up the girl's boyfriend/boss while his mates held the guy down.

But I bet there is a whole string of them out there somewhere.

Yes - I forgot about that one. This article below says that, on that occasion, SG returned about an hour later with about 12 others, who held the ex-girlfriend's employer whilst SG punched him in the face. (I hadn't heard that detail before - about returning with 12 others). :bigfight:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-28/murderer-simon-gittanys-violent-past-revealed/5121836
 
SG returned about an hour later with about 12 others, who held the ex-girlfriend's employer whilst SG punched him in the face. (I hadn't heard that detail before - about returning with 12 others)

Pathetic little man. Can't take on someone his own size without backup.
But loves to prey on those he can overpower.
 
Wow ... thanks for the timeline, icu nurse! Now to read it carefully, and digest ....

:tyou:
 
Wow ... thanks for the timeline, icu nurse! Now to read it carefully, and digest ....

:tyou:

Nps! It's not complete yet - it started off as just my notes while reading the transcript - but it's a starting point we can work from at any rate.
 
Nps! It's not complete yet - it started off as just my notes while reading the transcript - but it's a starting point we can work from at any rate.

I wonder where the "... if anything happens to me, remember I love you" phone call to Joan came in?

Apparently, during the last phone call ... according to this Canadian article.

She testified that in their last phone conversation her daughter told her: “Remember that I love you.”
Joan Harnum added: “We said our goodbyes and that was the last time I heard from her.”


http://globalnews.ca/news/951530/ac...stralian-court-about-death-of-canadian-woman/
 
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/fifty-shades-of-a-killer-who-craved-control-20131129-2yh81.html

Fifty shades of a killer who craved control
November 29, 2013 by Tim Elliott, Features and investigations journalist for The Sydney Morning Herald

"...Gittany's case is certainly at the extreme end...The trouble is that in extreme cases, the relationship is so important to the man that they see any threat to it as a threat to their existence. And so the essential message to their partner is: don't move away, don't show any difference or individuality"...But for Gittany ... as far as Lisa was concerned, it was him, and only him. Letting her go was not an option.
 
I've just noticed the house next door to his parents at Merrylands is a newly listed property for sale, up for auction later this month. It's only 2.5 years old, so it is not the house showing on google maps. I wonder if that was planned or a sudden decision because of all the notoriety / publicity.
 
Nps! It's not complete yet - it started off as just my notes while reading the transcript - but it's a starting point we can work from at any rate.

Awesome work icu nurse - thank you for putting this in a concise and chronological format for us. :takeabow:
 
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