OR OR - David 'Dave' Lewis, 46, Ashland, 4 September 2008

[Sleuth2010]

Dave didn't assault anyone. When physically pushed, Dave, in self-defense punched a convicted child molester. A CONVICTED CHILD MOLESTER. Dave confronted him with court papers in hand. They proved and included sodomy of a girl.
This man lived in Florida previously under a different name, which the FBI documented.

Dave was a man of strong integrity. Always protecting children, handicap and old.

When Hyatt Lake " RVs" were red-tagged, it was Dave who put down the tools and left, while the scofflaw owner told the crew to keep building. They went around back and continued working, RV after RV. Fraud installed as " park model RV" in a campground!!! Turning a campground into a private mobile home neighborhood. Disgusting. Cowards.
The entire lot of them.

MOO IMO

 

[Red Clover]

Dave didn't assault anyone. When physically pushed, Dave, in self-defense punched a convicted child molester. A CONVICTED CHILD MOLESTER. Dave confronted him with court papers in hand. They proved and included sodomy of a girl.
This man lived in Florida previously under a different name, which the FBI documented.

Dave was a man of strong integrity. Always protecting children, handicap and old.

When Hyatt Lake " RVs" were red-tagged, it was Dave who put down the tools and left, while the scofflaw owner told the crew to keep building. They went around back and continued working, RV after RV. Fraud installed as " park model RV" in a campground!!! Turning a campground into a private mobile home neighborhood. Disgusting. Cowards.
The entire lot of them.

MOO IMO

Again, what would have been the motivation in either of these scenarios to kill Dave??

Hyatt Lake Resort owners-
That Dave put down his tools but others continued working?

JH-
That Dave had assaulted him?
His previous conviction?
Dave was troublesome?

I'm genuinely trying to understand.
It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Red Clover]

Dave didn't assault anyone. When physically pushed, Dave, in self-defense punched a convicted child molester. A CONVICTED CHILD MOLESTER. Dave confronted him with court papers in hand. They proved and included sodomy of a girl.

The definition of assault includes
"A violent physical attack, as with blows"

assault /ə-sôlt′/

noun​

1. A violent physical attack, as with blows.
2. A strong or cutting verbal attack.
3. A military attack, such as one launched against a fortified area or place.

 

[Red Clover]

Dave didn't assault anyone. When physically pushed, Dave, in self-defense punched a convicted child molester. A CONVICTED CHILD MOLESTER. Dave confronted him with court papers in hand. They proved and included sodomy of a girl.
This man lived in Florida previously under a different name, which the FBI documented.

Dave was a man of strong integrity. Always protecting children, handicap and old.

When Hyatt Lake " RVs" were red-tagged, it was Dave who put down the tools and left, while the scofflaw owner told the crew to keep building. They went around back and continued working, RV after RV. Fraud installed as " park model RV" in a campground!!! Turning a campground into a private mobile home neighborhood. Disgusting. Cowards.
The entire lot of them.

MOO IMO

@Sleuth2010
I'm curious.
Do you think they murdered him because he was a good guy?

"Dave was a man of strong integrity. Always protecting children, handicap and old"

"When Hyatt Lake " RVs" were red-tagged, it was Dave who put down the tools and left, while the scofflaw owner told the crew to keep building"

Again, I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

If you had to finger either the Hyatt Lake Resort owners or JH as the killer who is more likely?

OR is there someone else who you think is more likely?

I don't personally think it's either scenario but I'm curious who seems like the more likely culprit to you as it's unlikely that it's both of them.

Who would be so bold as to go onto Dave's property in the late night or early morning hours (to murder him and burn his house down)?

Recently someone close to the cases (Dave & Troy's) told me they remembered there had been some kind of motorcycle or dirtbike tracks found at the scene at Dave's(!!) I had never heard that.

I have always wondered if all of Dave's dirtbikes, motorcycles etc were accounted for afterwards.

Could one of Dave's dirtbikes or motorcycles have been used to travel between the locations on DIMR that night?

Is it possible the murderer could have used a dirtbike to escape up Conde Creek Road and up to their camp or to the historic shelter on Soda Creek road/Little Butte creek?

As always IMOO

 

[Red Clover]

I would like to point out that this case is not about the sexual abuse (SA) of anyone involved in this case.

I am not in any way defending SA just saying that's not what the case is about.

 

[Lilibet]

Who would be so bold as to go onto Dave's property in the late night or early morning hours (to murder him and burn his house down)?

It suddenly occurred to me as I read this sentence…
—Do we know that the murderer necessarily arrived at Dave’s property in the middle of the night?
—Just because the fire was discovered in the early morning hours doesn‘t mean that Dave was killed then, does it?
—Could this be someone who paid Dave a seemingly or even actually benign visit earlier in the afternoon or evening.
—Was the person already there when Dave arrived home from Ashland?
—Was Dave expecting them?
—Did they arrive on foot, bypassing the driveway somehow if they didn’t want to be seen or simply out of convenience?
—Do we know for sure that murder was the intent of the visit?
—Could Dave’s murder have been unplanned?
—Did something escalate during the visit?
—It could have taken some time after the murder to decide to set the fire and gather the fuel on the property to accomplish it, making sure it was burning well before leaving.

—The second fire (but the first one discovered) doesn’t make sense to me, except to delay the discovery of the fire at Dave’s long enough for Dave’s cabin to burn down completely.
—The person setting the second fire would need to have known that the second cabin, which was fairly close to the road, was unoccupied IMO.
—So that implies to me that it was someone with local knowledge. After all, it was a vacation cabin and Labor Day weekend.
—I find it interesting that the cabin was owned at the time by someone named Lewis.
—Was that deliberate or a simple twist of fate?

Just some thoughts in the middle of the night.

 

[Red Clover]

It suddenly occurred to me as I read this sentence…
—Do we know that the murderer necessarily arrived at Dave’s property in the middle of the night?
—Just because the fire was discovered in the early morning hours doesn‘t mean that Dave was killed then, does it?
—Could this be someone who paid Dave a seemingly or even actually benign visit earlier in the afternoon or evening.
—Was the person already there when Dave arrived home from Ashland?
—Was Dave expecting them?
—Did they arrive on foot, bypassing the driveway somehow if they didn’t want to be seen or simply out of convenience?
—Do we know for sure that murder was the intent of the visit?
—Could Dave’s murder have been unplanned?
—Did something escalate during the visit?
—It could have taken some time after the murder to decide to set the fire and gather the fuel on the property to accomplish it, making sure it was burning well before leaving.

—The second fire (but the first one discovered) doesn’t make sense to me, except to delay the discovery of the fire at Dave’s long enough for Dave’s cabin to burn down completely.
—The person setting the second fire would need to have known that the second cabin, which was fairly close to the road, was unoccupied IMO.
—So that implies to me that it was someone with local knowledge. After all, it was a vacation cabin and Labor Day weekend.
—I find it interesting that the cabin was owned at the time by someone named Lewis.
—Was that deliberate or a simple twist of fate?

Just some thoughts in the middle of the night.

Such excellent questions @Lilibet
Really excellent.
Hopefully we'll have some answers soon.

 

[Red Clover]

It suddenly occurred to me as I read this sentence…
—Do we know that the murderer necessarily arrived at Dave’s property in the middle of the night?
—Just because the fire was discovered in the early morning hours doesn‘t mean that Dave was killed then, does it?
—Could this be someone who paid Dave a seemingly or even actually benign visit earlier in the afternoon or evening.
—Was the person already there when Dave arrived home from Ashland?
—Was Dave expecting them?
—Did they arrive on foot, bypassing the driveway somehow if they didn’t want to be seen or simply out of convenience?
—Do we know for sure that murder was the intent of the visit?
—Could Dave’s murder have been unplanned?
—Did something escalate during the visit?
—It could have taken some time after the murder to decide to set the fire and gather the fuel on the property to accomplish it, making sure it was burning well before leaving.

—The second fire (but the first one discovered) doesn’t make sense to me, except to delay the discovery of the fire at Dave’s long enough for Dave’s cabin to burn down completely.
—The person setting the second fire would need to have known that the second cabin, which was fairly close to the road, was unoccupied IMO.
—So that implies to me that it was someone with local knowledge. After all, it was a vacation cabin and Labor Day weekend.
—I find it interesting that the cabin was owned at the time by someone named Lewis.
—Was that deliberate or a simple twist of fate?

Just some thoughts in the middle of the night.

Does anyone know who was the last person to see Dave or have contact with him and what time on 9/3/2008?

 

[Red Clover]

Do we know what errands Dave had in Ashland on 9/3/2008?

-Did he go to his bank?

-Did he deposit the two checks that had been on his windowsill and were the source of contention?

If he went to town (Ashland) that day, he most likely went to the grocery store-Shop N Kart, and filled up on gas at Rex Bound's Exxon or the old Mobil on Clover Lane.

Dave was definitely a creature of habit. He may have even stopped by The Wild Goose or Oak Tree (restaurant/bars on south side of town and on his way home) before heading the 13 miles back up the mountain.

-Did Dave have visitors that popped in over Labor Day? He was a great cook, maybe he made some Labor Day picnic foods?

He made me a bean salad one time that was absolutely delicious, he also grilled steaks on a rack which was over a fire built in the crevices of the big rocks behind his cabin. Yum. Good memories.

ALL IME & IMOO

 

[Gemmie]

Do we know what errands Dave had in Ashland on 9/3/2008?

-Did he go to his bank?

-Did he deposit the two checks that had been on his windowsill and were the source of contention?

SBMFF

Your questions made me wonder Why would he pick that day to deposit the inheritance checks after leaving them sitting on the windowsill for so long? (if that's what he did) Coincidence? Or was there a reason to get them out of the house and into his account? It didn't sound like there was any urgency before. Again, IF he deposited just before his death.

And what is a long time? Days? Weeks? Months? Either way, I'm thinking the bank would definitely have that info, and likely gave it to detectives had they asked for it, if they saw a need to.

he also had two uncashed checks on his windowsill as part of his inheritance after his mother's death.

He didn't feel the need to cash them, but he had been pressured to "give" part of his to a family member. He had told them no, but he told me that he "expected them to just show up "

The above quote from your post: OR - OR - David 'Dave' Lewis, 46, Ashland, 4 September 2008

 

[Red Clover]

SBMFF

Your questions made me wonder Why would he pick that day to deposit the inheritance checks after leaving them sitting on the windowsill for so long? (if that's what he did) Coincidence? Or was there a reason to get them out of the house and into his account? It didn't sound like there was any urgency before. Again, IF he deposited just before his death.

And what is a long time? Days? Weeks? Months? Either way, I'm thinking the bank would definitely have that info, and likely gave it to detectives had they asked for it, if they saw a need to.

he also had two uncashed checks on his windowsill as part of his inheritance after his mother's death.

He didn't feel the need to cash them, but he had been pressured to "give" part of his to a family member. He had told them no, but he told me that he "expected them to just show up "

The above quote from your post: OR - OR - David 'Dave' Lewis, 46, Ashland, 4 September 2008

I was speculating about the checks as at one point sleuth2010 had said they'd been cashed but when I last spoke to him they had not.

You asked how long he had held the checks for and I don't know for sure but I would guess months-years.

I was wondering IF he did have visitors perhaps that would have been the impetus to get the checks in the bank IF they were indeed deposited before his death.

 

[Rush4087]

Motives for murder (generally) fall into four categories.
The four L's-
Lust
Love
Loathing
Loot

https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/sites/crimeandjustice.org.uk/files/09627250608553401.pdf

I'm always trying to reverse engineer the events of that week in 2008.

IMOO-
I do think that Troy & Dave's murderer is one & the same.
I think the three fires & type of weapon and the Labor Day timeline tie the cases together.

It's been established by LE that Dave & Troy did not know each other.

@Lilibet is correct that Troy's mom tried to call him early morning of 9/2/2008 (approximately 6 am west coast time) and there was no answer and that he was not found until the afternoon of 9/4/2008.

There are video stills of Troy leaving the Pilot Truck around 6 pm on 9/1/2008. When he was found Troy was wearing these same clothes per @Troy's mom .

What was this person's or persons motivation to kill Dave and set two fires the night of 9/3/2008 or early morning of 9/4/2008 when he was found?

Lust?
Love?
Loathing?
Loot?

IF the same person killed Troy, why?
IMO, he seems like he was a super nice guy that was minding his own business. I don't think, IMO, that Troy was an intended target but was collateral damage.

My speculation has been that, IMO, Troy was an unwitting witness to someone or something at the Pilot Truck Stop in Central Point Oregon around Labor Day weekend 2008.

He was very careful about selecting his campsites according to @Troy's mom and was camping in just his sleeping bag in thick underbrush (JMO, in a blackberry thicket?)

So Troy had to have trusted the person for them to know where he was sleeping, that or the killer was incredibly observant of Troy and his activities. Why return to the scene of the crime? Why the 14th?

It seems like that was a real risk and yet this person's plan has worked so far...

As I've posted previously, I think the killer was familiar with Dave, his location, his routine and Jackson County and the backroads of Southern Oregon. I've also speculated about a specific route that, IMO, might have been used.

What the heck happened?
Who was out there in the Siskiyou mountains on a moonless night in early September?

Was Dave asleep and someone snuck in on him?
Did someone follow him home from the lake?
Was there a confrontation at the cabin at 18196 DIMR?
Did Dave invite the person(s) into his home because he knew them or was expecting them?

IMO, I think the vacant vacation cabin near the lakes was used on 9/2-9/3 to observe the comings & goings of Dave and to observe other activities in the area around the Lindsey Ranch, the quarry, Lily Glen & Dead Indian Memorial Road. A "down day" so to speak, to rest up, to gage the environment, who was in the area, make a plan... mark a road with yellow tape maybe...

ALL IN MY OPINION ONLY

There's still so many questions... We need someone dedicated and deeply curious to go back over this case.

I think it is a mistake to assume that Dave and Troy’s murders are connected. They may be, but currently there is no factual evidence to support any connection, and LE has backed off. Treating it as fact imo puts blinders on the investigation.

 

[Red Clover]

I think it is a mistake to assume that Dave and Troy’s murders are connected. They may be, but currently there is no factual evidence to support any connection, and LE has backed off. Treating it as fact imo puts blinders on the investigation.

There are definitely two camps when it comes to this matter and that's okay.

I myself have reasons to believe they are connected. That's okay too.

I'm in touch with Troy's mom who doesn't necessarily see a connection between the two cases but has been very helpful and supportive, as I have of her.

We're all just trying to figure out what happened based on what we do know.

I knew Dave, I didn't know Troy. As far as I can tell Troy was an innocent unwitting victim.

I actually believe Troy may have been befriended by the person who killed him.

With Dave, I believe someone planned to confront him, but like Lilibet suggested earlier in the thread, I don't believe Dave's murder was planned.

We don't have the benefit of having the LE case file in front of us so we are formulating and reverse engineering what we know of Dave's life the best we can.

IMO the two cases have been interconnected since day one.

ALL IMOO OF COURSE

 

[Sleuth2010]

There is more work ahead to ensure that each and every person responsible for David's barbaric murder is brought to justice and held accountable. Until that day, we will continue to fight for complete justice and continue to speak the truth. It's been a long road. The wheels of justice turn very, very slowly, but they do turn.

NO WAY this ever should have happened!

 

[Sleuth2010]

Again, what would have been the motivation in either of these scenarios to kill Dave??

Hyatt Lake Resort owners-
That Dave put down his tools but others continued working?

JH-
That Dave had assaulted him?
His previous conviction?
Dave was troublesome?

I'm genuinely trying to understand.
It just doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe ask voted-out sheriff Michael Winters or wrongfully fired Lieutenant Bob Sergi !

What the County taxes paid for, multi thousand dollar report, had to say:

" While the authors of the review did not directly address the claims, they do say in a footnote later in the review, Winters’ “…

continuation of what he did as an Oregon State trooper without apparent change or personal growth was not in keeping with the needs of an agency of this size nor a community of the size and with the needs of Jackson County.”

Mike Winters' leadership questioned in county review - KOBI-TV NBC5 / KOTI-TV NBC2

Jackson County, Ore.- A review requested by Jackson County after Sheriff Corey Falls filed a complaint of discrimination, appears to question former Sheriff Mike Winters’ leadership. Winters is one of six candidates vying to fill the Sheriff’s position for the next two years. At a county...

kobi5.com

Enough said.

 

[Lilibet]

So I guess you're saying that Sheriff MW knew why Dave was murdered and by whom and covered it up? Those of us who live here know that MW cost the county many thousands of dollars in legal fees because of his various actions. I could post an article with more details than yours, but I won’t because it doesn’t address anything other than the man’s character. That isn’t the topic here and it doesn’t answer the question @Red Clover asked about motive.

The implications regarding Dave’s murder by the Hyatt Lake Resort owners or JH are coming from you, so IMO it’s up to you to provide a potential/theoretical motive rather than deflect to Sheriff MW.

JMO

 

[Sleuth2010]

Mike Winters' leadership questioned in county review - KOBI-TV NBC5 / KOTI-TV NBC2

Jackson County, Ore.- A review requested by Jackson County after Sheriff Corey Falls filed a complaint of discrimination, appears to question former Sheriff Mike Winters’ leadership. Winters is one of six candidates vying to fill the Sheriff’s position for the next two years. At a county...

kobi5.com

2 vile, bloody, heinous murders. 2 fully engulfed cabin fires, 4 arson scenes, death threats toward David E. Lewis

This was the man in charge of the investigation.

" continuation of what he ( Michael Winters) did as an Oregon State trooper without apparent change or personal growth was not in keeping with the needs of an agency of this size nor a community of the size and with the needs of Jackson County.”

No personal growth. No professional change. Not keeping with needs of the agency or Jackson County, Oregon residents.

This was the man in charge of the investigation.

We were told: any other mountain in any other town and arrests would have been made.

David E. Lewis was a longtime productive and well loved resident / community member / keeper of the mountain.

Arrests should have been made long ago.

IMO MOO JMO

 

[Lilibet]

This was the man in charge of the investigation.

We were told: any other mountain in any other town and arrests would have been made.

@Sleuth2010, Focused as you are on just Dave’s case, I do understand how painful and frustrating it is that no arrests have been made. And I do agree that the sheriff had “issues.”

But I’ve participated in enough threads here on Websleuths over the past ten years to have observed that arrests don’t always come easily even when it’s obvious who is the perp. So it’s debatable IMO whether arrests for Dave’s murder would have been made in any other town. For example, Stephanie Warner’s disappearance ten years ago from Ruch here in Jackson county…everyone knows her boyfriend Lennie Ames murdered her, but without a body and/or other evidence that would hold up in court, there’s no point in arresting him.

OR - OR - Stephanie Warner, 43, Ruch, 4 Jul 2013 - #1

Missing Southern Oregon woman last seen on Fourth of July http://www.kptv.com/story/22806413/missing-southern-oregon-woman-last-seen-on-fourth-of-july

www.websleuths.com

Where I used to live in Humboldt County in northern CA, there are an inordinate number of unsolved missing person cases spanning the time of numerous different sheriffs. Unfortunately, there is a code of silence in those mountains that makes gathering evidence both difficult and dangerous in marijuana-growing country.

So, there are any number of reasons besides Sheriff MW that arrests may not have been made for the murders of Dave and Troy Carney. But I would guess that a lack of evidence that would result in a conviction is near or at the top of the list. All it takes is one person with a conscience to tell what they know, along with good detective work, and it’s possible for enough evidence to be found. And so we keep a vigil and wait.

But again, you've thrown some suspects into the thread and have been asked about their possible motives. So we wonder what your thoughts are about that.

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

4 arson scenes, death threats toward David E. Lewis

Can you elaborate? I’m not aware of four arson scenes of death threats against Dave, unless I’ve forgotten something (always possible).

 

[Red Clover]

2020

Unsolved So. Oregon: From the Ashes - KOBI-TV NBC5 / KOTI-TV NBC2

MEDFORD, Ore. –“In this case we have some strong persons of interest. But we just don’t have enough to make a strong criminal case,” said Cpt. Tim Snaith, Jackson Co. Sheriff’s Office. Two shocking crimes miles apart yet connected. “I spent many agonizing months investigating this case,” said...

kobi5.com

Just over a week later, a third and final fire sparked in the vicinity where Carney was murdered.

“Why would someone 9 days later start a fire to destroy evidence when they could potentially do it much sooner,” said Cpt. Snaith.

Did the same person start a fire at Lewis’s home and the cabin down the road? Did that person also kill Lewis and Carney using a fire to cover up evidence?