Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 4

[SouthAussie]

BBM - I'm sure the "best friend" status was a facade at best. ES obviously didn't give a flying flip about Jennifer, or she wouldn't have slept with her husband. My anger isn't directed at you here, Lavanda, but it makes me REALLY angry to think of that affair.

As for ES and GR still hanging out, I think we'd have to be idiots to believe that their feelings/attraction/whatever have become completely platonic and that they're not still involved. They betrayed JR, they're betraying ES's husband, and they're hurting every single one of their kids by doing this. One day the kids will look back and realize what was going on, even if they're too young to understand it now. ES and GR's continued relationship is disrespectful to Jennifer's family, and HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE while Jennifer is missing.

I agree krey, one day the children will put two and two together and realise what was happening under the nose of their beloved mother. And when that happens I can only imagine what their responses will be to the deception, and to the fact that this relationship happened immediately prior to the disappearance of their mother (whether the relationship is platonic now or not).

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

:gthanks: for this post! I agree with you 100%. I have little (well, more like zero) sympathy for adults who go voluntarily missing. The pain they cause their loved ones is unforgivable. Yes, I'm harsh about it, but JMO.

That said, it would be better for JR if she's out there somewhere. But better for the kids is debatable. I can't imagine the pain they'd have to live with for the rest of their lives knowing their mother walked away and abandoned them. (But I don't think that's what happened here).

The alternative is worse. And it would certainly depend on why "abandonment" took place. I've seen and met those who have "walked away" and they had very deep rooted problems about themselves....not their family who love them....about themselves to the point they feel like "an outsider" or that "everyone is better off without them." Those who have done this are in therapy for quite awhile and....well, fact is, ALL are still in therapy but are doing better. Let's look at another thought. How many people become so depressed and so despondent they commit suicide? Those who do this "voluntary missing" due to emotional distress......are those whose foot is already one step over the bridge. Do you think their family would feel as you said when that becomes the case? No. They love them and will work through it...that is unconditional love. On the flip-side....when someone does abandon families, due to selfish reasons....that is difficult and sometimes unforgivable....but I do not for a moment believe if Jennifer is alive that she left for selfish reasons. Far too much, not publicized, indicates that if she did leave....it was due to the despondency.

 

[Truman]

Lavanda, based on your experience in this and other cases, what's your opinion on what might have happened? Have you been involved in similar cases, and what were the outcomes?

Thank you for the work you do. I've noticed it getting heated a few times on the thread - I hope it doesn't bother you. I actually think it's great, because it means a lot people here are personally invested in this case. I hope together we can generate ideas and information that might be able to help LE. All that counts is finding Jennifer for her children.

 

[LadyBugSTL]

That would be great if they would, but i lost a nephew in a shooting in the same county and CCS has to close the case before FBI would take the case. I so hope it wouldn't be the same with a missing person! JMO

I am so sorry you lost your your nephew, nanasbabes! :hug:

 

[SouthAussie]

The alternative is worse. And it would certainly depend on why "abandonment" took place. I've seen and met those who have "walked away" and they had very deep rooted problems about themselves....not their family who love them....about themselves to the point they feel like "an outsider" or that "everyone is better off without them." Those who have done this are in therapy for quite awhile and....well, fact is, ALL are still in therapy but are doing better. Let's look at another thought. How many people become so depressed and so despondent they commit suicide? Those who do this "voluntary missing" due to emotional distress......are those whose foot is already one step over the bridge. Do you think their family would feel as you said when that becomes the case? No. They love them and will work through it...that is unconditional love. On the flip-side....when someone does abandon families, due to selfish reasons....that is difficult and sometimes unforgivable....but I do not for a moment believe if Jennifer is alive that she left for selfish reasons. Far too much, not publicized, indicates that if she did leave....it was due to the despondency.

BBM: Sorry ... but I'm still not understanding how you can be so certain that all you've been told is accurate ... when your communication with GR has been phone/internet based until now.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

BBM - I'm sure the "best friend" status was a facade at best. ES obviously didn't give a flying flip about Jennifer, or she wouldn't have slept with her husband. My anger isn't directed at you here, Lavanda, but it makes me REALLY angry to think of that affair.

As for ES and GR still hanging out, I think we'd have to be idiots to believe that their feelings/attraction/whatever have become completely platonic and that they're not still involved. They betrayed JR, they're betraying ES's husband, and they're hurting every single one of their kids by doing this. One day the kids will look back and realize what was going on, even if they're too young to understand it now. ES and GR's continued relationship is disrespectful to Jennifer's family, and HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE while Jennifer is missing.

I agree that GR's and ES's continued involvement is a severely disrespectful "slap in the face" to JR's parents...

further... It is an insult to the parents' intelligence... And to us WSers ... To think that we would not see the relationship between the two for what it is... An "affair"...

And that someone defending an unfaithful husband in these actions ... and going so far as to re-interpret it into something that is healthy and generous to kids ...is less than ethical...

JMO

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

BBM - I'm sure the "best friend" status was a facade at best. ES obviously didn't give a flying flip about Jennifer, or she wouldn't have slept with her husband. My anger isn't directed at you here, Lavanda, but it makes me REALLY angry to think of that affair.

As for ES and GR still hanging out, I think we'd have to be idiots to believe that their feelings/attraction/whatever have become completely platonic and that they're not still involved. They betrayed JR, they're betraying ES's husband, and they're hurting every single one of their kids by doing this. One day the kids will look back and realize what was going on, even if they're too young to understand it now. ES and GR's continued relationship is disrespectful to Jennifer's family, and HIGHLY INAPPROPRIATE while Jennifer is missing.

All I can say is ...things are not as they seem. It's much more complex. The party who started the rumor did NOT hear it first hand. They heard part of something...and does not know the entire situation.

Speaking generally, I am not defending anyone who has been unfaithful to their spouses. It's wrong to all involved....I don't know the ages of anyone here...but I am 53 and I can tell you that as I get older and see so many divorces (I myself was divorced after 18 years of marriage. I think everyone that knew us...including family...about fell off their feet. Everyone thought we had the perfect marriage. To onlookers, we did. Did we love each other at divorce time? Yes. Absolutely. Why did we divorce? Because we married too young (18 and 20) and grew totally separate. To the degree that I became more like a mother to him, than a wife...in all ways. So we sat and talked and it was mutually agreed. Nobody committed adultery, we didn't fight and argue...we just were totally separate in so many ways.) At the same time, I've seen marriages in which two have slept together that are RELATED!! (Meaning man with wife's twin sister)...that's horrible! But in the one case that I know...when it came out....three years later they all divorced and turned around and married each others spouses! How many women have found their husband committed adultery...but they truly love him and don't want the marriage to fail....and it has worked out and their marriage ended up being better than ever? It does happen. The majority of us are women...so we are very very emotional and that part of our life with spouses is an emotional and "sacred" part of marriage...but unfortunately it's not the same kind of emotional and sacred act to men....some, yes...the majority of men will tell you that if a wife truly let her husband have an "affair" with someone else...would he? Most would...because it is not the same "emotional act" .....there also are men who put their wives on such a pedestal that they wouldn't dare ask them to "do something kinky" but go out and get it elsewhere Not nice...but yes....happens all of the time.

 

[Jilllian]

One lady in a laundromat I was talking to said "I thought they found her?" and I asked her.... "No, where did you hear that?" and she said....they never had anything on news anymore. So it's very possible people take down posters thinking the same Also, depending on where they were put. Never on telephone poles or any city property. They will take them down. I do not for a minute believe anyone is taking them down on purpose.

~ respectfully snipped for space

Which laundromat? I was in two today, the only two in town as far as I know. One was run by a woman, and the other was run by a man.

My first stop after the event was one of these laundromats. The woman I spoke to there (who I know), was receptive to me posting flyers, and we talked for a while. So she knew they haven't found her. I posted two flyers on that bulletin board, and since there wasn't much space, I took old flyers down that advertised an event for a certain date that had passed. I know this is painting with a general paintbrush, but most places I went had outdated flyers, which indicates to me that the flyers stay up until someone needs the space. I even gave these flyers for her to throw away. So she knew. Did you go to a laundromat out of town? Or was it not the owner, and rather a patron doing their laundry?

Wondering if you can keep Jennifer in the news via interviews so people don't forget and the case doesn't go COLD.

 

[krey]

I agree that GR's and ES's continued involvement is a severely disrespectful "slap in the face" to JR's parents...

further... It is an insult to the parents' intelligence... And to us WSers ... To think that we would not see the relationship between the two for what it is... An "affair"...

And that someone defending an unfaithful husband in these actions ... and going so far as to re-interpret it into something that is healthy and generous to kids ...is less than ethical...

JMO

:goodpost: Thank you!!! You took the words right out of my head!

 

[LJKaust]

Just throwing this out there...NOT that it pertains to GR/JR case....but, throwing it out there.....Do you know statistic wise how many divorces happen in the USA? Statistics on how many wives and husbands have been unfaithful? So when that is realized as to how high in numbers....the chance of a missing person having a spouse who may have had an affair, (male and female)...is very high too. Many times the public doesn't even know. Because this may have or may not have occurred...should not be a reason to focus all on "one possibility" else many other possible scenarios are not discussed..and a case not become solved.

This is true, but most people don't have an affair with their partners best friend[/quote(lolaangelina)

Yes, and most people don't have an affair with their partner's best friend and then have their partner vanish into thin air!

 

[LadyBugSTL]

Thank you, Jillian!!!
:yourock:



BBM and respectfully snipped for space...

I find this SO disturbing. Who wants to bet that they'll eventually move in together and become The Brady Bunch? ugh.

I agree, greatly disturbing and something else I haven't been wanting to think too much about - because it's disturbing as well, per NY divorce law (link below) - if Jennifer is not found, and forensics are not conclusive and LE doesn't make an arrest, someone "could" file for divorce as early as December, citing abandonment.....

http://www.nycourts.gov/divorce/glossary.shtml#Abandonment

 

[Jilllian]

The majority of us are women...so we are very very emotional and that part of our life with spouses is an emotional and "sacred" part of marriage...but unfortunately it's not the same kind of emotional and sacred act to men....some, yes...the majority of men will tell you that if a wife truly let her husband have an "affair" with someone else...would he? Most would...because it is not the same "emotional act"

~ respectfully snipped for space, BBM

:what:

Lavanda, I disagree, but want to ask you respectfully where this data comes from? I'm having a hard time asking that in a way that sounds nicey-nice, but please know that I tried.

 

[Caring4Many]

All I can say is ...things are not as they seem. It's much more complex. The party who started the rumor did NOT hear it first hand. They heard part of something...and does not know the entire situation.

Speaking generally, I am not defending anyone who has been unfaithful to their spouses. It's wrong to all involved....I don't know the ages of anyone here...but I am 53 and I can tell you that as I get older and see so many divorces (I myself was divorced after 18 years of marriage. I think everyone that knew us...including family...about fell off their feet. Everyone thought we had the perfect marriage. To onlookers, we did. Did we love each other at divorce time? Yes. Absolutely. Why did we divorce? Because we married too young (18 and 20) and grew totally separate. To the degree that I became more like a mother to him, than a wife...in all ways. So we sat and talked and it was mutually agreed. Nobody committed adultery, we didn't fight and argue...we just were totally separate in so many ways.) At the same time, I've seen marriages in which two have slept together that are RELATED!! (Meaning man with wife's twin sister)...that's horrible! But in the one case that I know...when it came out....three years later they all divorced and turned around and married each others spouses! How many women have found their husband committed adultery...but they truly love him and don't want the marriage to fail....and it has worked out and their marriage ended up being better than ever? It does happen. The majority of us are women...so we are very very emotional and that part of our life with spouses is an emotional and "sacred" part of marriage...but unfortunately it's not the same kind of emotional and sacred act to men....some, yes...the majority of men will tell you that if a wife truly let her husband have an "affair" with someone else...would he? Most would...because it is not the same "emotional act" .....there also are men who put their wives on such a pedestal that they wouldn't dare ask them to "do something kinky" but go out and get it elsewhere Not nice...but yes....happens all of the time.

Irregardless of what has happened or does happen, the way that this appears in the media reflects immensely on Jennifer's case. The priority should be on keeping her face & name in the news, not worrying about being with another woman. The kids can visit with their friends without them being alone, it's very telling that ESs husband isn't around-what husband isn't at his wife's side supporting her during the time her best friend is missing? Probable the one that knows something inappropriate is taking place & wants not part of being near the man that is/was interfering in his marriage? I'd think as a person that is the President of a Missing Persons Organization you would advise your families to ensure they are taking their appearance into account. Especially if they are under the impression that perhaps the missing person may be watching & may have left due to despondency. Why would that encourage Jennifer to return if that is what she is witnessing? JMO.

 

[Caring4Many]

~ respectfully snipped for space, BBM

:what:

Lavanda, I disagree, but want to ask you respectfully where this data comes from? I'm having a hard times asking that in a way that sounds nicey-nice, but please know that I tried.

I would agree Jillian, I know many married men, & those in healthy marriages wouldn't even think of it. Is one shocked me.

 

[LolaAngelina]

This is true, but most people don't have an affair with their partners best friend[/quote(lolaangelina)

Yes, and most people don't have an affair with their partner's best friend and then have their partner vanish into thin air!

Yep that's one hell of a coincedence!:doorhide:

 

[LolaAngelina]

Lavanda,
Can you confirm that Jennifer's parents and sister and/or other family members were invited to attend today? If so, were they invited by GR or yourself?
Do you know why the did not attend?

Just quoting myself here.
I think you missed this one Lavanda. Another question we have asked many times and had no answer to. Why did GR not pay for the billboard? Why was there a need for donations?

 

[epiphany]

Yep that's one hell of a coincedence!:doorhide:

And how about add to that to continue to be seen in public with her, with two sets of children involved...I don't care how platonic the relationship is now!

 

[Caring4Many]

One lady in a laundromat I was talking to said "I thought they found her?" and I asked her.... "No, where did you hear that?" and she said....they never had anything on news anymore. So it's very possible people take down posters thinking the same Also, depending on where they were put. Never on telephone poles or any city property. They will take them down. I do not for a minute believe anyone is taking them down on purpose.
I also want to say....and I mean no disrespect to anyone....but it was very difficult to get permission to even have them allowed to be posted!! I had to practically beg many of the places Seriously beg...I had to tell them...she has three children at home. A six year old daughter. Then they would say "OK...go hang it up over there."

Honestly as many times as I've handed out missing persons fliers on cases (at least 2 hand fills) I've NEVER been told I couldn't hang a poster anywhere.

If I were you I'd have a list of places that wouldn't allow you to hang posters & make a list of those that would, make that list public & thank those that would. I bet you next time there will be no hesitation to letting you hang a poster.

The thanking piece should also be done worth donations, I'm assuming you haven't had any at this point but just an idea for when you do, then if heaven forbid it goes on longer, or someone else is in this situation they will be just as willing to pitch again.

 

[LolaAngelina]

Irregardless of what has happened or does happen, the way that this appears in the media reflects immensely on Jennifer's case. The priority should be on keeping her face & name in the news, not worrying about being with another woman. The kids can visit with their friends without them being alone, it's very telling that ESs husband isn't around-what husband isn't at his wife's side supporting her during the time her best friend is missing? Probable the one that knows something inappropriate is taking place & wants not part of being near the man that is/was interfering in his marriage? I'd think as a person that is the President of a Missing Persons Organization you would advise your families to ensure they are taking their appearance into account. Especially if they are under the impression that perhaps the missing person may be watching & may have left due to despondency. Why would that encourage Jennifer to return if that is what she is witnessing? JMO.

Yes if it's about the kids not missing out, there's no reason why they cannot be dropped at ES's house or vice versa. You would think with these "rumours" swirling around they would want to avoid spending extended time together.
Though going by today's performance they clearly don't care

 

[sreshowtime]

so...where is Jennifer

Does anyone off hand know what the garbage pick up is like there around Norwich...more specific- Who the providers are and when are dumpsters picked up and where are they dumped?
Is there a dumpster at the apartments where the van was located?

Is household garbage picked up at the curb? What size containers? Or is there a central location for residents to drop at? Does it go to the same dump?