Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 4

[Bettylou4you]

This is true, but most people don't have an affair with their partners best friend[/quote(lolaangelina)

Yes, and most people don't have an affair with their partner's best friend and then have their partner vanish into thin air!

Unless the Police are asleep, these facts make one or both of the participants Suspect Number One. It is Police 101, the most obvious conclusion is usually the correct one, no matter the demeanor of anyone involved or the spin being put every piece of information.

I can only assume LE's discouraging of private searches is because they are postive a crime was commited and they do not want evidence compromised. This may be at odds with why GR discouraged searches, which would be so evidence could be destroyed by time.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Lavanda, based on your experience in this and other cases, what's your opinion on what might have happened? Have you been involved in similar cases, and what were the outcomes?

Thank you for the work you do. I've noticed it getting heated a few times on the thread - I hope it doesn't bother you. I actually think it's great, because it means a lot people here are personally invested in this case. I hope together we can generate ideas and information that might be able to help LE. All that counts is finding Jennifer for her children.

I've narrowed to 2 "greater" possibilities:

One: Despondent and left; afraid of peers/family to come forward
Two: carjacked (possibly by multiple people.)
She goes to use her phone..they snatch it...turn it off...took her somewhere...harmed her. drove around all night or stayed somewhere else with her in van. Now need plan on what to do with her...in morning after their drugged craze wore off....drives down route 23
Pulls into mud by dirt mound...tosses phone...phone hits rock which turns back on and lands in mud to cushion glass. Intentions to put her in the water..realizes that it is not a good place as water is clearly visible to bottom (you can see all the rocks at bottom) and decide not a good place after all...peels out...mud splashes..drives further down road...2 or 3 other ponds between the two places....maybe placed her in one of those that was not as clear... and finally abandons van at apartment and maybe van not even abandoned that day. Maybe not until day after.

We drove many roads and none were thick with mud. Ironically the only mud place was where the cell was found. (and one other possible road near Morris, NY called LIEB Road was muddy. No others...not enough to have vehicle look like mine did....and hers.)

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I agree, greatly disturbing and something else I haven't been wanting to think too much about - because it's disturbing as well, per NY divorce law (link below) - if Jennifer is not found, and forensics are not conclusive and LE doesn't make an arrest, someone "could" file for divorce as early as December, citing abandonment.....

http://www.nycourts.gov/divorce/glossary.shtml#Abandonment

Wow... Add THIS into the mix.... And things get curiouser and curiouser...

:waitasec:

 

[sreshowtime]

Lavanda, are you at liberty to at least confirm if HRD dogs have been utilized at the home or on the van...even if you are unable to share any result? I am going to assume that LE may have access to some well certified dogs and handlers, that are not 'for hire'...

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

so...where is Jennifer

Does anyone off hand know what the garbage pick up is like there around Norwich...more specific- Who the providers are and when are dumpsters picked up and where are they dumped?
Is there a dumpster at the apartments where the van was located?

Is household garbage picked up at the curb? What size containers? Or is there a central location for residents to drop at? Does it go to the same dump?

Such good questions...

I honestly cannot say if these have been addressed...

Does any Sleuther remember the status of checking for dumpsters in Jen's case?

TIA...:seeya:

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Unless the Police are asleep, these facts make one or both of the participants Suspect Number One. It is Police 101, the most obvious conclusion is usually the correct one, no matter the demeanor of anyone involved or the spin being put every piece of information.

I can only assume LE's discouraging of private searches is because they are postive a crime was commited and they do not want evidence compromised. This may be at odds with why GR discouraged searches, which would be so evidence could be destroyed by time.

GR discouraged searches because of me and our advice. We do not encourage any public searches in cases that could invariably be foul play. Only professional SAR Teams.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Lavanda, are you at liberty to at least confirm if HRD dogs have been utilized at the home or on the van...even if you are unable to share any result? I am going to assume that LE may have access to some well certified dogs and handlers, that are not 'for hire'...

No clue at all about van. Yes dogs used at grid search where phone found.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Unless the Police are asleep, these facts make one or both of the participants Suspect Number One. It is Police 101, the most obvious conclusion is usually the correct one, no matter the demeanor of anyone involved or the spin being put every piece of information.

I can only assume LE's discouraging of private searches is because they are postive a crime was commited and they do not want evidence compromised. This may be at odds with why GR discouraged searches, which would be so evidence could be destroyed by time.

So in your eyes an "affair" is the obvious?
what about rock solid alibis?
what about a passed lie detector test?
what about "other info not divulged" ?
would that change your obvious?
(Remember... I cannot release info, nobody is told about lie detector results, so let's look at that as a "hypothetical")

 

[Jilllian]

so...where is Jennifer

Does anyone off hand know what the garbage pick up is like there around Norwich...more specific- Who the providers are and when are dumpsters picked up and where are they dumped?
Is there a dumpster at the apartments where the van was located?

Is household garbage picked up at the curb? What size containers? Or is there a central location for residents to drop at? Does it go to the same dump?

I don't know when the trash is collected or by which company, but I know the garbage dumpster was two to three parking spaces from where the car was found. Since this is an apartment complex (32 units), it's a large dumpster. The kind a machine picks up and empties into its belly. People who live closer to the city bring their trash bins to the curb, and a regular garbage truck collects the trash and the recycleables.

 

[LolaAngelina]

Unless the Police are asleep, these facts make one or both of the participants Suspect Number One. It is Police 101, the most obvious [/B]conclusion is usually the correct one, no matter the demeanor of anyone involved or the spin being put every piece of information.

I can only assume LE's discouraging of private searches is because they are postive a crime was commited and they do not want evidence compromised. This may be at odds with why GR discouraged searches, which would be so evidence could be destroyed by time.

I couldn't agree more!

 

[sreshowtime]

HRD specific? Or crosstrained??

 

[sreshowtime]

thank you Jillian, i forgot that it was mentioned about the apt dumpster

I can probably find the pick up info

Are there any outlying dumpsters for more isolated residents to use that might not have curb pick up?

 

[LolaAngelina]

So in your eyes an "affair" is the obvious?
what about rock solid alibis?
what about a passed lie detector test?
what about "other info not divulged" ?
would that change your obvious?
(Remember... I cannot release info, nobody is told about lie detector results, so let's look at that as a "hypothetical")

I have heard nothing about rock sold alibis? And since you say alibis I assume you are referring to 2 people?
But was the lie detector passed or not?
well Im sure there is a lot of info not divulged from many parties. I have read and been told a lot of stuff that is very damning to GR, but I can't discuss it here either.
And we are not looking at anything hypothetically, we are discussing this case in particular and Jennifer.

 

[Bettylou4you]

I've narrowed to 2 "greater" possibilities:

One: Despondent and left; afraid of peers/family to come forward
Two: carjacked (possibly by multiple people.)
She goes to use her phone..they snatch it...turn it off...took her somewhere...harmed her. drove around all night or stayed somewhere else with her in van. Now need plan on what to do with her...in morning after their drugged craze wore off....drives down route 23
Pulls into mud by dirt mound...tosses phone...phone hits rock which turns back on and lands in mud to cushion glass. Intentions to put her in the water..realizes that it is not a good place as water is clearly visible to bottom (you can see all the rocks at bottom) and decide not a good place after all...peels out...mud splashes..drives further down road...2 or 3 other ponds between the two places....maybe placed her in one of those that was not as clear... and finally abandons van at apartment and maybe van not even abandoned that day. Maybe not until day after.

We drove many roads and none were thick with mud. Ironically the only mud place was where the cell was found. (and one other possible road near Morris, NY called LIEB Road was muddy. No others...not enough to have vehicle look like mine did....and hers.)

Like I said. The simplest solution is the correct solution 99% of the time. I don't see a single aspect of scenario 2 being likely or even remotely possible.

 

[Caring4Many]

Like I said. The simplest solution is the correct solution 99% of the time. I don't see a single aspect of scenario 2 being likely or even remotely possible.

I agree, inthink a 3rd scenario isnthe answer as i believe, IMO, that unless it was someone she knew & went with comfortably PEOPLE would have noticed.

 

[Bettylou4you]

So in your eyes an "affair" is the obvious?
what about rock solid alibis?
what about a passed lie detector test?
what about "other info not divulged" ?
would that change your obvious?
(Remember... I cannot release info, nobody is told about lie detector results, so let's look at that as a "hypothetical")

I don't believe anything i have heard. I am basing this on my feelings since i do not have confidence that anything i have heard is the truth. Law enforcement has said nothing about rock solid anything and have cleared no one and that is the only source I would even consider. I completely zone out and ignore posts that include statements like alluding to knowing more than anyone can say.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

Irregardless of what has happened or does happen, the way that this appears in the media reflects immensely on Jennifer's case. The priority should be on keeping her face & name in the news, not worrying about being with another woman. The kids can visit with their friends without them being alone, it's very telling that ESs husband isn't around-what husband isn't at his wife's side supporting her during the time her best friend is missing? Probable the one that knows something inappropriate is taking place & wants not part of being near the man that is/was interfering in his marriage? I'd think as a person that is the President of a Missing Persons Organization you would advise your families to ensure they are taking their appearance into account. Especially if they are under the impression that perhaps the missing person may be watching & may have left due to despondency. Why would that encourage Jennifer to return if that is what she is witnessing? JMO.

Whatever may have or may not have happened....E loves Jennifer. She loves the children as the children love her. She has been in their lives for 7 years....every day. E wants to know where Jennifer is. She is in pain....regardless of any rumors. We are not going by appearance. I am not a lawyer who is going to skew reality to make something appear to the public to throw smoking mirrors. It's not about the public. He is not on trial. We are going by what is best for the children. The best for the children is as much normalcy as before...is what should be now. E is an integral part of their lives, the kids are best friends.

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I don't believe anything i have heard. I am basing this on my feelings since i do not have confidence that anything i have heard is the truth. Law enforcement has said nothing about rock solid anything and have cleared no one and that is the only source I would even consider. I completely zone out and ignore posts that include statements like alluding to knowing more than anyone can say.

But you indicated the police should go by the obvious. So I then must ask...what is the obvious in your eyes?

 

[Lavanda Dolce]

I don't believe anything i have heard. I am basing this on my feelings since i do not have confidence that anything i have heard is the truth. Law enforcement has said nothing about rock solid anything and have cleared no one and that is the only source I would even consider. I completely zone out and ignore posts that include statements like alluding to knowing more than anyone can say.

What do you believe is the obvious?

 

[LolaAngelina]

Like I said. The simplest solution is the correct solution 99% of the time. I don't see a single aspect of scenario 2 being likely or even remotely possible.

Yep, for 1 thing what carjacker leaves the keys in the car, no damage to the car and parks it neatly in an apartment complex???
And why would they throw out the phone? Take out the sim card and you've got a nice phone to sell