CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #2

[Davania]

http://lunaticoutpost.com/Topic-ELI...HOTEL-INTERVIEWED-BY-CNN-IS-SEX-OFFENDER-MORE

 

[hopeitcanhelp]

There is other graffiti on the roof, which suggests that is it a hangout for some people that know how to go up there.

In this picture, graffiti on the tank, the box on the bottom, and the door.

Some of the letters look similar to the other one. The E might be a bit different.

Booger 780E?

Not sure about the E. Peace sign in the 0.

I found this picture on google: Booger 780 Krew http://www.butterfunk.com/image-52/booger.htm

The writing style is different, but it refers to a crew, so probably more than one person.

 

[Kaliste]

My suicide theory would be that the feelings crept up in her while being away from her normal routine and her friends and family. Going into the water tank I would see more as a hole she slinked into while roaming the roof naked and in a manic state of mind. Or perhaps she perceived herself being chased and she went in there to hide and it turned into a death trap due to hypothermia and no way out.

This is almost exactly my theory. I personally see nothing normal about her behavior on the elevator video. I believe that she had some kind of psychosis going on and fled up to the roof in an attempt to hide from what she perceived to be a threat. Why would a rational young woman run up to the roof rather to the lobby? Or hide in a water tank? They wouldn't. I don't believe she was in her right, rational mind.

 

[medsleuth]

The piece that seems less plausible is a sex crime being so thoughtfully pre-meditated so as to a) avoid camera detection by all stairs use and b) forcing her to "walk the plank" into the water cistern. I imagine most residents of the Cecil would be pretty out of breath walking up 10 flights and getting up up the fire escape ladder to the roof. But it's possible. Richard Ramirez the Night Stalker appeared in good shape.

Most intriguing is the thought that there's no video of her going up. Could be that the police just haven't released that. Or could be that the camera in the other elevator was broken (or the recording equipment broken) and she went up that way.

Ok wow I have this case 100% figured out, through and through! With that being said Im sure in the end ill be 100% wrong but this theory of mine to me seems flawless. Perhaps its flawed but I think it answers a lot of my questions with reasonable answers.

Elisa Lams last moments as I see them.

1: Elisa decides that she will take up an offer to hang out with someone or multiple people on the roof. During that time the party she is with mentions being afraid of elevators or something similar and suggests they take the stairs (this explains why she isnt seen going up)

2: Whilest on the roof it becomes apparent to her either directly through contact be it verbal or physical or through intuition that these people or person shes with are bad news and that she needs to leave. She either makes a daring escape running away, or makes a coy escape ie I need to use the washroom and I dont want anyone to see.

3: SHe makes her way to the 15th or 14th floor (where we see her on video entering the elevator) At this point she feels scared, yet slightly relieved that she escaped. She presses a row of buttons (either due to lack of vision or due to having knowledge of how to flee in an elevator)

4: This whole time she has a sense of relief - but also is met by a great sense of paranoia. What if they catch me trying to leave she thinks. So she peers out of the elevator making sure shes not in danger.

5: As shes looking intently in one direction, the person or persons sneak up on her. This is where she starts acting really weird. IMO they/he is telling her that everything will be ok just come back to the roof and she wont get hurt.

6: Thats when she turns back in to the elevator shocked - Did he/they say that they might harm me? She frantically presses buttons to no avail.

7: In the interest of her safety she abides and cooperates with her attacker/attackers and goes back to the roof.

8: The attackers intent is to rape her. One person or multiple.

9: Elisa allows this to happen. She knows shes vulnerable and doesnt want to get hurt so she complies with the perp/perps and allows him/them to do this.

10: Once they are done (and I admit this isnt the most solid idea but it would work IMO) they force her into a tank. "We dont want you to follow us, get into this tank and we'll leave"

11: Elisa complies and is unable to get out of the tank. She dies in the tank without sign of struggle.

This explains why she would be naked.

Thoughts?

 

[Sillybilly]

Questions....
1. Do we have any guesses as to her weight and height?

<rsbm>

5'4 / 115 lbs

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...9QssLA&sig=AHIEtbTbzM9rZ7GT0x_calI01nTaZMNBJw

 

[Justiceforever]

I know I am weird, but sunshine depresses me, lol. I feel my best on gloomy days. But you are most likely correct, overall. Most people find sunshine uplifting.

You just reminded me of a song by the Temptations

I wish it would rain.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM7BRP7uzFk&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]The Temptations - I Wish It Would Rain - YouTube[/ame]

I hadda go there!

On a more serious note @ sunshine...I crave it! Need it! I'm from Wisconsin and winters there can be S.A.D. (seasonal affective disorder) I have spent many a winter in hibernation, cloaked in depression. The first sign of spring, is exciting and fun and lifts the spirits..

Maybe that's what EL was going through...SAD?

It would explain her trip to a warmer climate. Alternatives to medicine.

Please don't take this wrong. I am NOT saying I believe she committed suicide. I was just commenting @ her depression and possible reasons behind her trip to CA.

 

[DrSlooth]

I've been wondering about the lid to the water tank so I started reviewing aerial videos from the scene. It looks to me like the lid is closed but under some sort of tarp (maybe to preserve evidence?). Around 1:04 it looks like the firefighter briefly lifts the lid up.

Thoughts?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYkjsE2Qxl8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYkjsE2Qxl8[/ame]

 

[Justiceforever]

My suicide theory would be that the feelings crept up in her while being away from her normal routine and her friends and family. Going into the water tank I would see more as a hole she slinked into while roaming the roof naked and in a manic state of mind. Or perhaps she perceived herself being chased and she went in there to hide and it turned into a death trap due to hypothermia and no way out.

Can you please provide the link that states that she was naked? I haven't read ALL of the posts yet and I certainly haven't read a MSM link that says that...yet. TIA

 

[OCSlacker]

Just saying, not pointing anyone out specifically... but I did a search for sex offenders living at 640 South Main Street, Los Angeles and found at least 5 hits. I'm sure the police would be looking at them first. But, just saying... this building has a history of drugs, prostitution and murder. There is no reason to think it would not linger there, in fact it would be naive to think it would not.

Also, the term "booger" (in reference to the graffiti) sometimes also refers to drugs like cocaine (anything taken through the nose).

IMHO the tag " booger" is a person and the tag next to it could be the crew/gang he hangs with. It could also be the street where they hang or another taggers tag. Can't really get a clear idea of what it says to decipher what it could be. Booger has been tagging for a number of years in Downtown LA. I even found a website that gives a shout out in a roll call to him In 2007. He might not be tagger anymore, so this could be old. 6 years is a long time to be tagging.He could be dead or in jail. Might not be the same person but I doubt someone would steal another taggers name.

When you tag you basically claim the spot you tagged. It's like saying this is mine now and this is my crews spot. Don't f&%$ with it. Also, the harder an area is to get to the more props a person gets for tagging the spot. Doubt that was the case here as it's a small tag and not visible unless you are up on the roof.

LE generally can decipher which gang a tag came from and since it's LA probably has a good idea of who the person is doing the tagging. They may have even pulled him or someone suspected to hang with him in for questioning. For the very least, to figure out how often he hangs on that roof, how he gets up there and if he or anyone he knows was there that night. Gang units and graffiti task force have a pretty good grip on what a tag means. I've heard things deciphered from two scrawled words on the side of a bus stop that I never would have thought possible. Amazing how much knowledge the above mentioned LEU have and how much can be conveyed by a simple tag.

Oh and while I have heard booger for cocaine, usually it's booger sugar. Who knows, I could be wrong about everything.

http://graffitila.com/10-additional-roll-call

 

[Sillybilly]

I've been wondering about the lid to the water tank so I started reviewing aerial videos from the scene. It looks to me like the lid is closed but under some sort of tarp (maybe to preserve evidence?). Around 1:04 it looks like the firefighter briefly lifts the lid up.

Thoughts?

On the close-up pic I posted earlier showing the black scuff marks, the fireman is on the ladder, and on the tank behind him is what appears to be a black garbage type bag. It's very possible it is some type of evidence bag that was used to remove the lid, and i would think yes .. to preserve evidence.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topvideo/elisa-lam-update-022013_lead_media_image_1.jpg

ETA: Just thought what those marks might be .. maybe forensics scrubbed some evidence off the tank beside the hatch before the extrication started.

 

[DrSlooth]

On the close-up pic I posted earlier showing the black scuff marks, the fireman is on the ladder, and on the tank behind him is what appears to be a black garbage type bag. It's very possible it is some type of evidence bag that was used to remove the lid, and i would think yes .. to preserve evidence.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/topvideo/elisa-lam-update-022013_lead_media_image_1.jpg

ETA: Just thought what those marks might be .. maybe forensics scrubbed some evidence off the tank beside the hatch before the extrication started.

I wonder if the lids are hinged or if they just lift off. My thinking is if they're hinged and it was still attached, they probably close by themselves due to gravity.

Also, IMO if it's hinged and likely closes on its own then this is less likely an accident. (My accident theory has to do with walking on the tank and not seeing the opening then accidentally stepping on the opening and falling in.)

 

[SmilingSweetly]

With regard to the graffiti - I have to say... Her writing looks similar to it, in my opinion. The way it's written looks very 'girly' to me. The letter types not matching perfectly doesn't bother me. I'm the type of person who has 5 different letter types for each letter, at least. In the word banana - you might see me use three different styles of a. I also use different styles depending on the writing utensil and even the height of the item I'm writing on. I even find what comes out in my writing slightly strange. Perhaps Alisa uses different styles, depending on her mood, what she's writing with, etc.

If she wrote it - why? And what does it mean? If she didn't - how does it tie in, if at all? I wish we had more to go on.

 

[gitana1]

Admittedly I haven't read through ALL of the posts for the 2 threads @ EL...yet. Still working on it.

Can you provide a link that says that she was naked when she "went on" the roof?

If it's been posted I apoligize. I plan on reading every single post but if you could provide a link for that statement it would help. Thus far I haven't found it.

Yeah, it has been linked already. There were early reports that Elisa was found naked and face up in a tank that was 3/4ths full.

I've been wondering about the lid to the water tank so I started reviewing aerial videos from the scene. It looks to me like the lid is closed but under some sort of tarp (maybe to preserve evidence?). Around 1:04 it looks like the firefighter briefly lifts the lid up.

Thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYkjsE2Qxl8

Thanks for that. I agree with what you saw. I think they had it covered because of the rain. They probably don;t want to lose any evidence that may have survived.

 

[PopeReal]

So if she was indeed found naked isn't that nearly always a sign of a sexual crime? I suppose she could have removed her clothes and jumped in, but where are the clothes?

This just would be the strangest suicide ever. She is on a roof where she could just jump off but she decides to climb into a water tank? I am just not buying it.

She was either led to the roof or was forced up there (or already dead). I am still sticking to that theory.

 

[ceefry23]

I think it's a relatively good theory to some extent. I analyzed the video in details too and believe that she goes through various emotions, from casual but cautious, to fearful, to surprised, fearful for a very short moment again, then let her guard down/no longer afraid (or at least hiding it), has a chance to get back in the elevator and leave (hence not threatened to follow), doesn't manage to leave so she sort of gives up thinking she would bring about more trouble if she tried to escape, or thinking that she might be paranoid.

Notice when she goes back in the elevator, seemingly smiling and putting her hands on the walls. It looks to me like a way to say "ugh, no thanks, I'll pass, I'm tired". But then she doesn't manage to get the elevator to move.

This is exactly the emotion she is expressing! wow I couldnt have put it better myself! I really feel like we are getting somewhere now, to me this is making a lot more sense. When she puts her hands up shes thinking "How many times do I have to tell this guy no?" and after not being able to work the elevator she gets back out and starts doing the unexplainable hand motions and the Counting on her fingers. - I cant go back with you because i have to 1: check out 2: catch a bus 3: etc etc

Boom she gives in and they go back to the roof.

On the roof is where something happens. Probably not a premeditated rape but a rape im guessing none the less. Shes forced to climb into the tank (one to give the perp time to escape and 2 to possibly wash off any DNA). Perp takes her clothes to ensure he isnt followed not realizing that poor elisa would never make it out of the tank anyway. (explains the missing clothes)

The question why there isnt any other footage of her is hard to explain. As I said I think she was on the roof before we saw her in the elevator, that im almost sure of because its the only explanation why she would be up there with no prior footage of her.

My guess as well is that police would make mention to the fact that she is seen going up at such and such time (possibly release the footage) and was last seen (in released footage).

 

[ceefry23]

Also dont forget this about the lid of the tank. This is drinking water. It has a lid to keep out rain and other contaminants. As far as ive read its pretty important for these tanks to be very well sealed. They did a test on this and determined everything was ok right? To me that signifies that the lid was on. Sealed. If the lid was off for three weeks Im sure that is enough time for bacteria to develop in there. (assuming she was in there for 3 weeks - but IMO the body bag they show in a pic looks like a pretty bloated body IMO IMO IMO)

Which then I ask how much oxygen would there have been in this tank if it was sealed? Could she have suffocated?

What did the tests they did on the water look for?? Common contagions found in drinking water? Just body contamination? What was it that they deemed ok??

What im getting at is how do we know that the water was tested for say TB? I use tb just as a loose example not knowing much about airborne or waterborne etc diseases. But how thorough was this test?? I mean it cant be possible to do an "Everything in one test?" am I right?

 

[DrSlooth]

This is exactly the emotion she is expressing! wow I couldnt have put it better myself! I really feel like we are getting somewhere now, to me this is making a lot more sense. When she puts her hands up shes thinking "How many times do I have to tell this guy no?" and after not being able to work the elevator she gets back out and starts doing the unexplainable hand motions and the Counting on her fingers. - I cant go back with you because i have to 1: check out 2: catch a bus 3: etc etc

Boom she gives in and they go back to the roof.

On the roof is where something happens. Probably not a premeditated rape but a rape im guessing none the less. Shes forced to climb into the tank (one to give the perp time to escape and 2 to possibly wash off any DNA). Perp takes her clothes to ensure he isnt followed not realizing that poor elisa would never make it out of the tank anyway. (explains the missing clothes)

The question why there isnt any other footage of her is hard to explain. As I said I think she was on the roof before we saw her in the elevator, that im almost sure of because its the only explanation why she would be up there with no prior footage of her.

My guess as well is that police would make mention to the fact that she is seen going up at such and such time (possibly release the footage) and was last seen (in released footage).

What if perp took her clothes and she was embarrassed by being naked on the roof and tried hide in the tank?

 

[xlittlewingx]

This is exactly the emotion she is expressing! wow I couldnt have put it better myself! I really feel like we are getting somewhere now, to me this is making a lot more sense. When she puts her hands up shes thinking "How many times do I have to tell this guy no?" and after not being able to work the elevator she gets back out and starts doing the unexplainable hand motions and the Counting on her fingers. - I cant go back with you because i have to 1: check out 2: catch a bus 3: etc etc

Boom she gives in and they go back to the roof.

On the roof is where something happens. Probably not a premeditated rape but a rape im guessing none the less. Shes forced to climb into the tank (one to give the perp time to escape and 2 to possibly wash off any DNA). Perp takes her clothes to ensure he isnt followed not realizing that poor elisa would never make it out of the tank anyway. (explains the missing clothes)

The question why there isnt any other footage of her is hard to explain. As I said I think she was on the roof before we saw her in the elevator, that im almost sure of because its the only explanation why she would be up there with no prior footage of her.

My guess as well is that police would make mention to the fact that she is seen going up at such and such time (possibly release the footage) and was last seen (in released footage).

If this is the case, then how did the search dogs miss her scent? I think the body was moved to the tank in an effort to hide it, and I don't think she ever made it to the roof alive in the first place.

 

[cluciano63]

I fear we will soon hear that cause of death is drowning, manner of death undetermined, and that few, if any, will be satisfied. And then some months from now, tox results will come back and still probably not really clarify matters much.

 

[gitana1]

So if she was indeed found naked isn't that nearly always a sign of a sexual crime? I suppose she could have removed her clothes and jumped in, but where are the clothes?

This just would be the strangest suicide ever. She is on a roof where she could just jump off but she decides to climb into a water tank? I am just not buying it.

She was either led to the roof or was forced up there (or already dead). I am still sticking to that theory.

We just don't know yet where her clothes are. But what if she got in the tank not to kill herself but because she was experiencing psychosis and wanted a place to hide? The choices are not limited to homicide and suicide.