Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #6

[TootsieFootsie]

DBM

 

[acutename]

Most likely , as I see it. . He would have to be on a sort of down time, running on fumes, so to speak, for some of that time, and this is when , like all of us, we do things subconsciously. We follow the same steps to the letter box, we make our coffee in the same order of ingredients, we tidy our desk automatically, we use the same route to get to work, etc, etc.. his pattern of behaviour and his ''chosen'. .. ( subconsciously 'chosen' ) actions would be significant, I would think.

might have hoped that they would find him returning to the crime scene(?) to check on things

 

[Curiousobserver]

I’m nervous in that he is playing the ‘say nothing’ game, in that the body is perhaps in a very hard place, perhaps impossible, location, for VPOL to find, without his direction.

One for the legal heads. If they finally find her later down the track, what are the consequences for him IF they find her on their own accord? Extra Prison Time?

If there is any evidence left. He is never getting out of jail, if convicted, no matter what he does. Why help them find the body before everything linking it to him is long gone?

 

[acutename]

Yes, the searches have been widespread and ongoing. Samantha's body does not necessarily have to have been well concealed due to the extensive range of possible locations, just within the immediate area. There's dense bushland, open range farming properties and dams for starters. Not to mention any other places the accused may have travelled in those early days.

He may be solely responsible for the act, and he knows it, but have a witness(es) who may be able to be charged with something lesser and would like to protect those parties due to mateship, love, honour etc.

drugs, debts, prior bad acts etc.

 

[MIG214222]

If they finally find her later down the track, what are the consequences for him IF they find her on their own accord? Extra Prison Time?

No body, no parole.
The coppers (or anyone else) finding Samantha Murphy's body doesn't change that law - for him - if the perp has not disclosed the location.
imo.

Edit: formatting, gawd

 

[Trooper]

I’m nervous in that he is playing the ‘say nothing’ game, in that the body is perhaps in a very hard place, perhaps impossible, location, for VPOL to find, without his direction.

One for the legal heads. If they finally find her later down the track, what are the consequences for him IF they find her on their own accord? Extra Prison Time?

Certainly is a factor in the 'remorse' component of any plea for mercy, or a discount on the sentence. It's quite severe , too. It affects his time span before he is eligible for parole, bearing in mind , in Victoria, murder is a life sentence, that is, he will always be a convicted criminal , subject to imprisonment immediately even if he gets parole, eventually. Parole is not a right, in Victoria. One gets a sort of limit one has to serve before one can apply for parole, but applying and getting are two different things, neither one related to the other, usually. Some get it straight away, some don't.

His intransience in delaying this business of assisting police to locate the body is all noted down, and added on to the judges summing up, ,and it is always a negative factor. Always. .. as, I suppose, it should be.

 

[acutename]

I notice this keeps coming up.

No, hitting someone by accident and failing to render aid, will not lead to a murder charge anywhere that I know of. That is manslaughter: inadvertently causing death, no matter how carelessly or negligently.

Murder is not defined by statute, but by common law (tradition), so it is essentially the same throughout the English-speaking world, and the legalities were sorted out in courts hundreds of years ago in England.

The key to a murder charge is formally known as, in Latin, 'mens rea' - the guilty mind. Prosecution must prove the person knew what they were going to do was murder, before they did it. The murderer knew it was deeply wrong, but did it anyway, deliberately, with intent to murder. If the victim survived, it was by accident, because they meant to kill them dead.

Another way it has been described is 'with malice aforethought'

No 'whoops, I got distracted, I didn't mean to stab him in the heart', 'oops, the gun went off as I vigourously cleaned it, it just happened to be aimed directly at her head from 2 feet away,' etc.

Murder - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's really not that complicated. I don't understand how, before the arrest, everyone was quite happy to speculate that her husband was a murderer, but seem so sqeamish about it with regards to the real suspect.

JMO

well, if you do not kill some one with your first "accidental" pass but then decide to ensure their death, what would that be? (obviously I do not know what happened and there could have been a long term malicious plot)

 

[acutename]

There are more and more cases where if someone dies in a car accident, the driver is charged with murder.
Actually I don't think a car accident is thought of as an accident, the way they used to be.

These days there is a need to find someone to blame for everything that happens.

The days of something being just an accident seem to have vanished.

US has vehicular homicide....

 

[Dotta]

I certainly take on board your astute observation there about being too cooked to even know where she is, that has a certain clang of high possibility about it. It is difficult to believe anyone could do this stone cold , anyone at all much less a 22 yr old , with a comfy life, a rosy future, a girlfriend , supportive parents, a well paying job, his own car, all these plus factors.. but then, you know. People do dreadful things stone cold sober in broad daylight in the High St at noon. .. .. there is that, too.. I appreciate your response.

IMO
This lack of accountability happens to those who have everything given to them on a "silver plate".
"Adult kids" - immature, selfish, self- centred.

JMO

 

[acutename]

I do wonder if his silence is in part due to protecting other parties. If he was on his way home from partying, I feel it would be unlikely he was alone.

maybe he texted something incriminating

 

[BreakingNews]

If he had been on a bender the night before, there was a good chance he hadn't been to bed. So at 8am might still have been in bender mode. He probably doesn't remember much.
MOO.

 

[Susan12]

I found it interesting his lawyer said he didn’t have drug or mental health issues. You’d think he may have wanted to keep those options open for leniency upon sentencing if convicted. It makes me think either he’s planning on pleading not guilty, so wants to be seen as an upstanding citizen without issues that would lead to murder, or that the police will allege was capable of doing it due to mental health issues or drugs so he might try and say it was just an accident and he got scared so covered it up. If they don’t charge him with manslaughter and claim he had intent if the jury consider it an accident does that mean he walks free or can they add/change the charge during?

I’d be surprised if this has happened from him knowing her running patterns and stalking her. They didn’t know each other, she’s a fair bit older than him and he had a girlfriend. I am more inclined to think he hit her accidentally and then finished her off to try and cover up his actions or that it’s been an opportunistic sexual assault then fight or cover up sort of a thing but then I think Samantha and was a lot older than him and he had a girlfriend so a SA then he’d have to have a fettish for that

 

[Cedars]

well, if you do not kill some one with your first "accidental" pass but then decide to ensure their death, what would that be? (obviously I do not know what happened and there could have been a long term malicious plot)

Yes, I answered that above. If you deliberately kill someone, that's murder. It wouldn't matter that you claim to have accidentally hit them first - (making it easier to murder them). You can buy your victim lunch first, but it's the murder part that matters..

JMO

 

[MIG214222]

There are more and more cases where if someone dies in a car accident, the driver is charged with murder.
Actually I don't think a car accident is thought of as an accident, the way they used to be.

These days there is a need to find someone to blame for everything that happens.

The days of something being just an accident seem to have vanished.

yeah right, & the coppers have nothing better to do than attend & after watching the bodies being scrapped off the road listen to the 'victim - aka driver' say, "I had a green light!"
& they still go ahead & lock up the 'innocent victim driver' for MURDER!
OH, "these days", what happened to the good ole days?

Edit IMO

 

[CoffeeHug]

Economy is never too good for people.

The nature of the young is usually to break free from parental supervision.

To find their own place and be an adult not clutching at mum's apron strings.

That is the natural order.
He had enough money to buy booze and expensive drugs.
I guess he could rent some place.

By the way, did he indulge in his addictions and come to parental home under influence of substances?
Phew!

I guess we live in different worlds and don't share the outlook on being independent.

But it is OK.
I don't mind other people's opinions.
I live far away from Australia.

I just stated my own point of view

I have a 22 year old at home and he is most definitely not clutching at my apron strings.
He's an extremely gentle person who is working while in full time university. Never been drunk or done drugs. If he finds it easy to be at home and doesn't mind his family, why not make it easier for himself and save some money? Rents are crazy. It's very common for 22 year olds to be at home these days.

 

[solari]

Australia has a bit of a housing crisis going on at the moment due to a migration wave. Even before that it was still normal for kids to live at home through their 20s

They housing crisis was around before any migration wave, it's been a problem for a longtime, the Panini made it worse imo

 

[Dotta]

I have a 22 year old at home and he is most definitely not clutching at my apron strings.
He's an extremely gentle person who is working while in full time university. Never been drunk or done drugs. If he finds it easy to be at home and doesn't mind his family, why not make it easier for himself and save some money? Rents are crazy. It's very common for 22 year olds to be at home these days.

<modsnip - off topic>
That is how I see the alleged perp.
The housing thing is only a part of the issues I wrote about.
Everything I see about him is worrying to me.

JMO

 

[MIG214222]

US has vehicular homicide....

Australia has similar: Causing death by dangerous driving & there's numerous links in any web-search engine - example:Operation of a Vehicle Leading to Murder or Manslaughter - QLD *not* VIC & that can make a difference.

All of which is a moot point - bc Chief Commisioner Shane Patton stated in the presser: IN FULL: Police charge man with murder in relation to Ballarat woman Samantha Murphy | ABC News

qte

at 5:28 - Chief Commissioner Shane Patton said:
"We are not looking for anyone else. It's not alleged at this stage that there are any accomplices."

&

• at 06:07 - Chief Commissioner Shane Patton said:

"He has been charged with murder, which by its definition means that it was an intentional act."

imo & added link

 

[Hats]

Just had a look at the Apple website. I wonder if this bit is referring to finding the phone's last location before it was turned off, or whether it can be tracked somehow while it's off?

"On a supported iPhone, turning on the Find My network allows you to locate your iPhone for up to 24 hours after it’s turned off, or up to 5 hours when it’s in power reserve mode."

Perhaps this means the Find My network will remember the location at the point it was turned off for up to 24 hours after it was turned off.

I haven't looked into this specific Apple technology, the only way I could see it working if the phone was turned off, is if part of the phone is not fully turned off for the purpose of basic telemetry comms, like pings to the tower etc. So to the user, it would look like it is fully turned of, but actually not completely.

 

[Ska]

My two theories are that it was accidental with a vehicle, and then intentionally ended her life/ or didn't get help which meant her life had ended. I would think that's intentional and therefore murder. I know many have this similar view as it's being repeated a lot too.

Initially I wondered if there is evidence of anyone else (DNA) on her body (I know police have said no accomplices though) and wondered if he was protecting someone else or just himself... and is hoping with no body found maybe they can't prove it.

Lastly the police must have concrete evidence of her being dead maybe in CCTV being taken away from the scene or photos or something to be so sure about a murder. I wonder what other data they got from her watch/phone to help piece everything together. The watch would be a key as to her heart rate dropping. From memory in the UI program, they said something catastrophic happened. So the vehicle knocking her ties in. I wonder if she still had a heart rate for a while and struggled or what happened next.

All MOO.