4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #93

New Posts

windrower said:
In the following link, the Curriculum Vitae of Sy Ray, the D’s cell phone expert, states he has testified over 100 times, and all case work prior to November 2023 was as a prosecution witness.

Interesting.

Click to expand...
I saw that too and it had me a bit concerned. Then I saw this, which was posted in thread#92--post#984....JePop

https://gazette.com/premium/colorado-judge-finds-sea-of-unreliability-in-cellphone-mapping-data-used-by-police/article_331decc0-4c0d-11ed-986b-cbb1f65714dc.html'

"Colorado judge finds "sea of unreliability" in cellphone mapping data used by police"​

"The judge did not take aim at all cellphone mapping data, which is widely used by law enforcement. Rather his ruling was limited to Trax mapping software from Chandler, Ariz.-based ZetX, which produces aerial maps prosecutors and police use to estimate the location of a defendant’s cellphone during an alleged crime. In 2021, the analytics data corporation LexisNexis acquired ZetX."

"In sum, Trax and its methods have been routinely (and sharply) admonished by the scientific and legal community, and the people haven’t directed the court to any evidence showing otherwise,” Villaseñor wrote in his ruling excluding the use of the Trax technology in the stalking criminal case."

"Villaseñor found that Ray, who did not return telephone messages seeking comment for this article, was not a credible witness."

“He inflated his credentials, inaccurately claiming to be an engineer,” the judge wrote in his ruling, stressing that Ray had testified that he is “more of an engineer than an engineer.”

“Most compelling are the complete absence of data to support Trax’s purported error rate and the scientific community’s wholesale rejection of Trax’s methods,” Villaseñor wrote in his ruling, noting that he had found three other rulings from judges rejecting Trax-related evidence or expressing skepticism of that evidence."
 
His phone left his apartment and pinged on down to Hwy 270 and Stadium Way (east Pullman) stopping at the WSU Rec Cen on the way.
Then according to the PCA his phone stopped communicating at 2:47am.
His alibi showed one thing, there are more camera shots of the Elantra, like the one AT revealed captured by Floyds Cannabis on 270 near Moscow.

His phone turned on again as he was travelling southbound, south of Moscow on US Hwy 95 at 4:48 am by Blaine.
Pinging around the south and tracking his return to his Pullman apartment from the southeast.

Alibi makes zero sense.
 
Last edited:
katydid23 said:
I saw that too and it had me a bit concerned. Then I saw this, which was posted in thread#92--post#984....JePop

https://gazette.com/premium/colorado-judge-finds-sea-of-unreliability-in-cellphone-mapping-data-used-by-police/article_331decc0-4c0d-11ed-986b-cbb1f65714dc.html'

"Colorado judge finds "sea of unreliability" in cellphone mapping data used by police"​

"The judge did not take aim at all cellphone mapping data, which is widely used by law enforcement. Rather his ruling was limited to Trax mapping software from Chandler, Ariz.-based ZetX, which produces aerial maps prosecutors and police use to estimate the location of a defendant’s cellphone during an alleged crime. In 2021, the analytics data corporation LexisNexis acquired ZetX."

"In sum, Trax and its methods have been routinely (and sharply) admonished by the scientific and legal community, and the people haven’t directed the court to any evidence showing otherwise,” Villaseñor wrote in his ruling excluding the use of the Trax technology in the stalking criminal case."

"Villaseñor found that Ray, who did not return telephone messages seeking comment for this article, was not a credible witness."

“He inflated his credentials, inaccurately claiming to be an engineer,” the judge wrote in his ruling, stressing that Ray had testified that he is “more of an engineer than an engineer.”

“Most compelling are the complete absence of data to support Trax’s purported error rate and the scientific community’s wholesale rejection of Trax’s methods,” Villaseñor wrote in his ruling, noting that he had found three other rulings from judges rejecting Trax-related evidence or expressing skepticism of that evidence."
Click to expand...

Thank you for reposting this. I missed it; came to the new thread today without reading all of the pages on thread 92.

Scary stuff, though. Sounds like Elizabeth Holmes and Theranos— sleight of hand and lies.

IMO
 
Here is a link discussing the latent shoe print:

<snipped>

LATENT PRINT- Investigators examining the crime scene uncovered a latent shoe print outside one of the victim's bedroom doors with a diamond-shaped pattern, similar to a “Vans-type shoe sole.”

The size of BK's shoes by Trooper's affidavit:

<snipped>

Tpr. Justin M. Leri is one of the troopers with the Pennsylvania State Police tasked with surveilling Kohberger and then arresting him on Dec. 30.

His affidavit details how authorities were able to secure search warrants for Kohberger's car and the home of his parents. These searches uncovered far more potential evidence, officials said.
  • Pair of black and white size 13 Nike shoes (size 13 is not a common size of shoes IMO)
Bryan Kohberger Case: DNA, Eyewitness, Evidence, But No Murder Weapon or Motive

MOO
 
Speculation and hypotheticals ahead:
If somehow it really does turn out that BK is innocent, and just truly the unluckiest man alive. I don't mean getting off on a technicality, I mean if the State's evidence falls apart at trial, or worse, and it turns out BK really didn't do it.
Then what?
With the house destroyed and all this time elapsed... Would the State have to start over and consider other options? Would the case just go cold?
I don't follow enough true crime to know: What typically happens if trial reveals that the accused is innocent?
 
katydid23 said:
I saw that too and it had me a bit concerned. Then I saw this, which was posted in thread#92--post#984....JePop

https://gazette.com/premium/colorado-judge-finds-sea-of-unreliability-in-cellphone-mapping-data-used-by-police/article_331decc0-4c0d-11ed-986b-cbb1f65714dc.html'

"Colorado judge finds "sea of unreliability" in cellphone mapping data used by police"​

"The judge did not take aim at all cellphone mapping data, which is widely used by law enforcement. Rather his ruling was limited to Trax mapping software from Chandler, Ariz.-based ZetX, which produces aerial maps prosecutors and police use to estimate the location of a defendant’s cellphone during an alleged crime. In 2021, the analytics data corporation LexisNexis acquired ZetX."

"In sum, Trax and its methods have been routinely (and sharply) admonished by the scientific and legal community, and the people haven’t directed the court to any evidence showing otherwise,” Villaseñor wrote in his ruling excluding the use of the Trax technology in the stalking criminal case."

"Villaseñor found that Ray, who did not return telephone messages seeking comment for this article, was not a credible witness."

“He inflated his credentials, inaccurately claiming to be an engineer,” the judge wrote in his ruling, stressing that Ray had testified that he is “more of an engineer than an engineer.”

“Most compelling are the complete absence of data to support Trax’s purported error rate and the scientific community’s wholesale rejection of Trax’s methods,” Villaseñor wrote in his ruling, noting that he had found three other rulings from judges rejecting Trax-related evidence or expressing skepticism of that evidence."
Click to expand...

The article @jepop found, and the one in @katydid23’s quote, was published in November 20, 2023, which corresponds to Ray’s CV info that he was a prosecution witness over 100 times through November 2023.

Maybe he’s no longer getting hired by prosecution teams, and switched sides? Though it seems Sy Ray might be fairly easy to discredit or impeach if he actually testifies.

I bolded the part about Ray inflating his credentials in the quote above: “. . . more of an engineer than an engineer.”

Sounds more like a con man. IMO
 
arielilane said:
Curious about why you would turn your phone off to hike and run and/or see the moon and stars? to murder, yes, to commit the crime of murder, that sounds plausible. moo
Click to expand...
This a fwiw based on my own experience. Sometimes when I would hike certain places, I'd loses signal at various stages of the journey. To conserve my battery, I'd turn the phone off and only turn it on if I wanted a picture. Once I got back to the car, I'd turn it back on. I've had phones completely drain searching for a connection. I am not saying that is what happened here, just that turning off a phone for the alibi reason isn't necessarily odd, but only if it is because you can't get a signal. Not likely for 3 hours unless you are distance hiking in the far reaches of Yellowstone. Not likely at all if you are driving the 26 miles from the park he said he was at to Blaine or vice versa.
 
Swansee said:
Speculation and hypotheticals ahead:
If somehow it really does turn out that BK is innocent, and just truly the unluckiest man alive. I don't mean getting off on a technicality, I mean if the State's evidence falls apart at trial, or worse, and it turns out BK really didn't do it.
Then what?
With the house destroyed and all this time elapsed... Would the State have to start over and consider other options? Would the case just go cold?
I don't follow enough true crime to know: What typically happens if trial reveals that the accused is innocent?
Click to expand...

Then the accused walks out of court and is free.

The prosecution feels the jury got it wrong and can't do anything about it. They do not suddenly file charges on someone else.

The prosecution does not change their mind in thinking the true murderer got off.

OJ getting off is a good example . Prosecution still thought he was guilty and never charged anyone else.

2 Cents
 
Thanks @Cool Cats. That's a bad outcome if the families are still convinced the accused was guilty.
Since my last post I remembered the recent acquittal of Dr Moore for the murder of Dr Drake in Idaho.
After Dr Moore was acquitted , the Drake family brought forth a civil lawsuit against him, which was set to go to jury trial in January of this year ( I couldn't find the outcome of that). Meanwhile he was also suing the family for defamation.
I suppose this means the Idaho 4 victims' families could sue BK if he was acqitted then?
 
Swansee said:
Thanks @Cool Cats. That's a bad outcome if the families are still convinced the accused was guilty.
Since my last post I remembered the recent acquittal of Dr Moore for the murder of Dr Drake in Idaho.
After Dr Moore was acquitted , the Drake family brought forth a civil lawsuit against him, which was set to go to jury trial in January of this year ( I couldn't find the outcome of that). Meanwhile he was also suing the family for defamation.
I suppose this means the Idaho 4 victims' families could sue BK if he was acqitted then?
Click to expand...

Yes!
Lower standard of guilt.
Again. OJ Simpson.

OJ lost the Goldman civil suit against him.
 
Boxer said:
That is his alibi - and totally suspect. A la Iris Eytan, alternate software programs and confusing terms will be exploited.

He drove by King Rd house the following morning. Probability that return looky loo trip was random is nil in my opinion.
Click to expand...
I believe that the police later said what they initially believed was the morning pass by the house by BK was incorrect and he was in Pullman at the time.

I do remember the sequence of events being widely reported like this:
9 a.m.

Kohberger's phone records show the phone left his apartment and traveled toward Moscow.

9:12-9:21 a.m.

Kohberger's phone uses cell resources that provide coverage to the King Road home.

9:32 a.m.

Kohberger's phone pings the cell network from his apartment.

www.usatoday.com

Timeline of Idaho killings: When and where the victims were targeted

A deeper look at the Idaho college killings: Mapping accused killer Bryan Kohberger's alleged path
www.usatoday.com

However, it is a 20 - 27 minute drive from Steptoe Apartments to 1122 King Rd and another 20 -27 minute drive back to BK's apartment. After that fact was brought forward, I believe MPD disregarded the possibly 9am-ish visit and started saying they believe he was actually home at that time.

IMO, the timeframe easily disproves this possibility, but, as we all know, there is no way of knowing what may be brought up at the trial. But, to me, the timeline does not appear to work for a morning visit.

All JMO.
 
Dotta said:
Didn't he also allegedly leave a shoe imprint in blood?
Click to expand...
No, there was a latent footprint inside near DM's door and another footprint outside by evidence marker 3 which was behind that old sofa in the backyard that appeared to be a hiking boot or hiking shoe print, IMO. You can see the second print here, 3rd photo down: University of Idaho murder victims were in bed, stabbed multiple times: coroner

There is no publicly released photo of the latent print outside of DM's room thus far but it is mentioned in the PCA in such a way that LE may have used it to verify DM's story of the bushy-eyebrowed stranger.

All JMO.
 
Balthazar said:
I believe that the police later said what they initially believed was the morning pass by the house by BK was incorrect and he was in Pullman at the time.

I do remember the sequence of events being widely reported like this:
9 a.m.

Kohberger's phone records show the phone left his apartment and traveled toward Moscow.

9:12-9:21 a.m.

Kohberger's phone uses cell resources that provide coverage to the King Road home.

9:32 a.m.

Kohberger's phone pings the cell network from his apartment.

www.usatoday.com

Timeline of Idaho killings: When and where the victims were targeted

A deeper look at the Idaho college killings: Mapping accused killer Bryan Kohberger's alleged path
www.usatoday.com

However, it is a 20 - 27 minute drive from Steptoe Apartments to 1122 King Rd and another 20 -27 minute drive back to BK's apartment. After that fact was brought forward, I believe MPD disregarded the possibly 9am-ish visit and started saying they believe he was actually home at that time.

IMO, the timeframe easily disproves this possibility, but, as we all know, there is no way of knowing what may be brought up at the trial. But, to me, the timeline does not appear to work for a morning visit.

All JMO.
Click to expand...

But you can get from Moscow to Pullman or vice versa in about 10 minutes not 30. It is 8 miles and not city miles, not to mention not remotely busy in terms of traffic on a Sunday morning. JMOO
 
Cool Cats said:
Probable Cause Affidavit states that Kohberger's phone was turned off between 2:47am and 4:48am.
Click to expand...
If LE was looking at the wrong cell towers based on the location of the white Elantra they were watching on video, they might think the phone was either turned off or in airplane mode, when, in fact, the cellphone was pinging some other tower in the opposite direction of the route LE believes BK took based on the photos of the white Elantra. Based on the original alibi statement it is even possible that the car LE first spotted in Pullman was not BK's car. I noticed the defense said in the original alibi reply, that he went out driving late on the night of the 12th and into the early morning hours of the 13th.

“Mr. Kohberger is not claiming to be at a specific location at a specific time; at this time there is not a specific witness to say precisely where Mr. Kohberger was at each moment of the hours between late night November 12, 2022, and early morning November 13, 2022,” Taylor wrote. “He was out, driving during the late night and early morning hours of November 12-13, 2022.”

The above leads me to this inevitable question: IF BK left Pullman BEFORE midnight on the 12th and did not return home until the next morning on the 13th, then whose car was LE watching at 2:44am in Pullman per the PCA page 7?

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org
Cool Cats said:
That is 2 hours of "blank" time. So how can this defense expert overcome this?
Click to expand...
The meta data can prove the phone was on and being used. Meta data is data about data, for example if a cell phone user takes photos, the meta data will provide exact location data, date and time of the image captured. If there are photos from that night, which it seems the alibi hints at, the meta data will provide exact GPS coordinates, date and time the photo was taken.

People here are making much of the ice fog that night, but taking photos under ice fog conditions can result in amazing photos with an otherworldly quality that cannot be captured or replicated any other way. It is possible to capture ice fog halos and other interesting phenomenon. Did BK go out to take such photos? IDK. But we could see such photos in the trial, if they exist.
Cool Cats said:
To show Kohberger was far away from King Rd at 4:00am means the cell expert has cell tower data pinging to Kohberger's phone at 4:00am when his cell was turned off.
Click to expand...
That is what the defense appears to be claiming.

All we can do is wait and see how all of this plays out in the courtroom. It should be interesting, to say the least.

All JMO.
 
Balthazar said:
You can't get from his apartment to 1122 King Rd in 10 minutes. 20, yes, 10, no.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming he has a lead foot (looks like it in the Indiana videos) and takes some back roads that Google doesn't take you through. I once had to get to WSU veterinary hospital pronto via alternate routes and it can be done if not a busy traffic time. Google knows a lot, but not everything. JMOO
 
Chloegirl said:
I'm assuming he has a lead foot (looks like it in the Indiana videos) and takes some back roads that Google doesn't take you through. I once had to get to WSU veterinary hospital pronto via alternate routes and it can be done if not a busy traffic time. Google knows a lot, but not everything. JMOO
Click to expand...
It's worth considering your theory, but we have no proof of him speeding in the area that I'm aware of. He made an illegal turn and got a ticket for that and we know about alleged following too close on his road trip home but I haven't seen speeding tickets yet, have you?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 84 more.
Total: 3,648 (members: 85, guests: 3,563)

Online statistics

Members online
85
Guests online
3,563
Total visitors
3,648
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
593,502
Messages
17,988,219
Members
229,151
Latest member
hongwuzhiye59
Back
Top