17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15

[LambChop]

To get his location. To keep him within sight so that he could tell the cops where he was last seen. I do not believe he would trail TM with the intent to kill him when, as you point out, "LE was on the way."

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

No police officer instructed him to follow. Ask any LE and they will tell you to stay where you are so they can locate you to get a statement. Once he called it in it's official police business and he had no right to interfer. He took matters into his own hands. You will never get LE to admit they have ever, ever told someone to follow that person so we can find him when we get there. I never heard that on that tape. What I heard, and I know for a fact this is true, you need to wait for LE to get there and they need to know you are where you claimed to be. It was one of my husband's biggest beefs as an officer. He said they put the lives of others in danger when they decide to take matters into their own hands. All LE wants you to do is wait for the patrol car to arrive and they will do the rest.

Why is it necessary to have LE if we all decide to investigate and try to confront suspects ourselves? What a waste of money. Just give everyone a gun and let them have at it. Certainly would solve the world's population problems. We have laws, we have rules that we are suppose to follow to prevent this type of incident from happening. GZ chose to throw it out the window disregarding the safety of others.

That could be you walking your dog and suddenly you are in the way of a fight and someone has a gun, there's a struggle and you end up dead. This is why LE does not want people to follow when they call an incident in. Good lord, it's common sense. A dog will chase a car because he doesn't know any better. GZ knew what LE was telling him. He knew better. He just did not care. jmo

 

[Etilema]

BBM
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/312...martin-shot-dead-florida-george-zimmerman.htm



http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...9T0TaGyoHryO?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=Local

So, why didn't the brother mention that he had gone out to buy skittles and never returned?


http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/30/us/trayvon-martin-profile/?hpt=ju_c2

No mention of the brother. Weird.

I could have sworn that there were articles that said he was walking to his dad's house, but mea culpa on that one.

The story shifts over time; it's obvious.

Why does it say he begged his father, if his father was out to dinner? I think we need a LOT more clarification on exactly what happened prior to TM's leaving the house.

Did he phone his dad to ask if he could go out? Did he beg to go to the store, then his dad left before he would have gotten back? Where was the brother in all this? (He's not actually a brother, btw, but the fiancee's son.)

Why does the father immediately assume that TM is with his cousin (Tracy's nephew)? Had they been together that day? Did they have plans to get together? Did the cousin go to the store with TM? Or did the dad just jump to conclusions--oh, he must be with my nephew?

And why did the dad first think of calling LE to find out if they had "picked up" a boy named Trayvon Martin? Was that something he would have expected to have happened? I think many parents would first think of calling hospitals, or calling police to inquire about whether there had been any accidents.

It would be super helpful to have answers to all of these question, IMO.

 

[LolaMoon08]

it would not take me until the morning if my child had not come home. especially one that was on suspension from school. but that is just me.

Yes. That's you.

What would you do? Call LE that night? Do you think LE would come rushing over to your house? No, they'd tell you to wait 24 hours or at least until the morning.

MOO

 

[lillygator]

Why does it say he begged his father, if his father was out to dinner? I think we need a LOT more clarification on exactly what happened prior to TM's leaving the house.

Did he phone his dad to ask if he could go out? Did he beg to go to the store, then his dad left before he would have gotten back? Where was the brother in all this? (He's not actually a brother, btw, but the fiancee's son.)

Why does the father immediately assume that TM is with his cousin (Tracy's nephew)? Had they been together that day? Did they have plans to get together? Did the cousin go to the store with TM? Or did the dad just jump to conclusions--oh, he must be with my nephew?

And why did the dad first think of calling LE to find out if they had "picked up" a boy named Trayvon Martin? Was that something he would have expected to have happened? I think many parents would first think of calling hospitals, or calling police to inquire about whether there had been any accidents.

It would be super helpful to have answers to all of these question, IMO.

I thought I had read that in an early thread but couldn't find it. Yes, that is odd.

 

[Sensei]

As I said, I pulled several screen shots out of that video and used PhotoShop to enhance the color and contrast. NO ONE of those showed the kind of marks on GZ's head as shown on that image.

I'm not a professional photo editor but I have worked with thousands of my own photos, edited and restored antique photos, and have a good amount of experience with PhotoShop. I believe if those marks had been on GZ's head, they would have shown up on at least one of the screen shots I got. They did not show up on a single one.

I did not do extensive enhancement, because that can introduce artifacts that distort the actual pixelization. Maybe I was overstating it - maybe it was not faked but accidentally introduced artifacts.

BUT the distinct edges of the marks on the back of GZ's head in that image do not look to me as though they are accidentally introduced artifacts.

Again, JMO.

I know nothing of photoshop, but I did catch a partial conversation today.

There were a couple of ambulance drivers discussing the new "evidence" that is seen on the video tapes, and the gist of the conversation was that there was simply no way in hades that any emt is going to see evidence of violent head trauma like that, hear a story of someones head being smacked against concrete or the ground and NOT transport for further testing period.

I cannot explain why this is the story that we are getting, and even if it is in fact true, but it is so far away and outside what is done here, and this is Podunk rural down south, and miles away from the largest city which is large to us, but not large by real city standards. I have a very hard time getting over that because it just is so outside any reasonable medical standards that I have ever known of. I also can't get over the idea that someone with their head violently traumatized like that who is willing to move their head and neck, look down, and appears to be wholly unaffected, at the least they should have a headache and light sensitivity. I am not even going to get into how the gunshot could be that close contact and there be NO blood spatters big enough to be seen on a grey shirt. Until these things are explained to me, I simply cannot believe that story, all my training and all my experience tells me that this is totally bogus, the man was in a life or death struggle and his shirt is still tucked in....no grass stains, no rips or damage to anything....It does not make sense, and if it does not make sense then something is wrong. Makes no difference if it is a gash, or a contusion, (bruise) if his head was hit violently enough to do what is seen in the enhanced video, he should have been immediately transported to the hospital. If it was a gash, then why is there no blood, no bandages, no nothing. I just don't get it at all IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[lillygator]

Yes. That's you.

What would you do? Call LE that night? Do you think LE would come rushing over to your house? No, they'd tell you to wait 24 hours or at least until the morning.

MOO

um, there is a lot you can do - I'd be out looking, on the phone with everyone I know, etc. (probably because I read here too much!!)

 

[songline]

They probably never heard any slurring words on the 911 tape either. I don't think they even listened to it. IMO

I did hear it... and I did not hear any racial slurs.
But I know that different people heard different things.
How can that be :waitasec:
Seems to me it just can’t be clear.

But those who want to be right heard it the way they chose to hear it.

 

[Isabelle]

That must be what happened. What are the chances it was actually black teens committing those burglars? Much more likely it was GZ doing it and calling it in just to blame them.

I had those same thoughts this am. Maybe GZ had some sort of munchausen related to crime, burglaries and he liked to be considered the hero. Nurses have been known to administer drugs to patients that cause a cardiac arrest and then they are the first on scene to resuscitate the patient; if successful they get all the praise. Sick, I know.

 

[Isabelle]

Would like information as to how other 911 calls made by GZ reporting suspicious persons was resolved. What did police find on arrival. Per GZ, 'they always get away'!

 

[frenchvixen]

Don't cry. This child was a victim...clearly. and IMO those that don't believe that are not looking at the circumstances but the color of his skin...whether they want to admit it or not

You should not cry over other people's callousness. The poster who stated that Trayvon was not a helpless child is the same type of character as the police officers who put Trayvon's body in the morgue with a John Doe tag and didn't even bother to make a phone call to Miami to let his parents know that he was dead. His dad had to file a missing person's report and then the cops put two and two together. Trayvon's name was on the police report when they took his body. A simple facebook search would have been a way to find who his parents were. Apparently, a black life is not as valuable as a
white life in people's mind and some people just don't see TM as a "helpless child" even though you can hear him crying out for help in the last minutes of his life.

 

[LolaMoon08]

um, there is a lot you can do - I'd be out looking, on the phone with everyone I know, etc. (probably because I read here too much!!)

I can understand that! :rocker:

 

[Boytwnmom]

where GZ has his gun out and TM sees it and GZ is holding him off and at that point I could see TM trying to push the gun aside or grab it or something. I think someone described this type of thing last night, where GZ may have slipped on the grass and gotten up and grabbed TM and had his gun out. The only sense I get from those screams by TM is that he thought he was going to die and not from a fist fight. People in a fight don't yell, wail like that, they're full of adrenaline or testosterone or whatever and that's why I never believed it was GZ screaming like that-it could only be somebody seeing something and thinking they were going to die, it wasn't even like a hurt scream, it was a scream of fear IMO. So, even if TM's prints were somewhere on the gun I'm not sure that would "prove" to me GZ was justified in killing him.

I agree. But we just don't know. And why would you re-holster it? That's what doesn't make any sense. Either drop it or continue to hold it. When the first officer arrived - put your hands up showing the gun and then slowly lay it down on the ground.

The fact that GZ had the presence of mind to re-holster it is odd. Especially since we have witnesses saying he was pacing and didn't answer people's calls as to what had just happened. Then he finally looks up and tells them to call police.

I do think GZ really thought TM had a gun and that if he shot it - it would be self defense. Once he did - and this again is JMHO - GZ went through his pockets and found that TM did not have a gun - hence the pacing and not answering.

JMHO if that was the case and the gun forensics back this up - GZ's goose is cooked - and I also think he knew that right after he shot him.



JMHO

 

[Sensei]

Would like information as to how other 911 calls made by GZ reporting suspicious persons was resolved. What did police find on arrival. Per GZ, 'they always get away'!

I really really want to know HOW LONG GZ HAD THAT GUN AND PERMIT

If he had it for years, and this is the first incident it's one thing, if he had only had the permit to allow him to carry it for a few short weeks or days, it is another thing entirely IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I had those same thoughts this am. Maybe GZ had some sort of munchausen related to crime, burglaries and he liked to be considered the hero. Nurses have been known to administer drugs to patients that cause a cardiac arrest and then they are the first on scene to resuscitate the patient; if successful they get all the praise. Sick, I know.

Firefighters too. There have been many cases where the firefighter has started fires just to be a hero.

 

[vlpate]

I had those same thoughts this am. Maybe GZ had some sort of munchausen related to crime, burglaries and he liked to be considered the hero. Nurses have been known to administer drugs to patients that cause a cardiac arrest and then they are the first on scene to resuscitate the patient; if successful they get all the praise. Sick, I know.

I think he would have to do more than call in suspicious people. He'd burglarize and call the cops, make up suspects (three of those he called in were caught). Kids playing in the street, mad caterers, and tenants not wanting to pay their rent wouldn't fit either.

 

[LambChop]

As I said, I pulled several screen shots out of that video and used PhotoShop to enhance the color and contrast. NO ONE of those showed the kind of marks on GZ's head as shown on that image.

I'm not a professional photo editor but I have worked with thousands of my own photos, edited and restored antique photos, and have a good amount of experience with PhotoShop. I believe if those marks had been on GZ's head, they would have shown up on at least one of the screen shots I got. They did not show up on a single one.

I did not do extensive enhancement, because that can introduce artifacts that distort the actual pixelization. Maybe I was overstating it - maybe it was not faked but accidentally introduced artifacts.

BUT the distinct edges of the marks on the back of GZ's head in that image do not look to me as though they are accidentally introduced artifacts.

Again, JMO.

I don't think it was accidential, I think it was stated that they tried to enhance the picture by introducing more pixels to prove a clearer picture.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/02/ng.01.html

Transcript from NG:

GUTMAN: Well, from before, we couldn`t see anything. His head just looked like a blob. You could tell that he basically shaved his head. He was close-shaven in his face, took, had perhaps a light beard.

Now we`re able to pick up a tremendous amount of detail. And again, when we talk about enhancement, this is basically a cleaned-up image. What we received from the Sanford Police Department was an encrypted 600 megabyte file of their surveillance video from that night. It took a tremendous amount of time, Nancy, to break it down and then rebuild it back together.
And so what you`re seeing is a cleaned-up, sharpened version of that. And I pretty clearly saw what other people claimed that they saw earlier, which are either gashes or red welts.

jmo

 

[Etilema]

Movies don't usually get over until 12:00am. I believe Trayvon's father said they got home at 11? 11:30? Something like that. Maybe they went to sleep? Figured Trayvon had a key and would make his way in the house?

I wonder what time they woke up to see that Trayvon was still not home?

I had read a quote previously saying that they did go to bed, and it is in this article, too:

"He went to bed figuring the teen must have gone to the movies and turned off his phone."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/03/us-usa-florida-shooting-trayvon-idUSBRE8320UK20120403

I read that Tracy returned home at 10:15 or 10:45 the night of the shooting (http://v8.cache4.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/data-news-archive/data120331.pdf?redirect_counter=2).

 

[LolaMoon08]

I really really want to know HOW LONG GZ HAD THAT GUN AND PERMIT

If he had it for years, and this is the first incident it's one thing, if he had only had the permit to allow him to carry it for a few short weeks or days, it is another thing entirely IMO JMHO and stuff.

I really, really think he got the gun when he was made "Captain of the Neighborhood Watch." I think his being appointed a man of position inflated his ego and he went out and bought a gun so it would match his new title.

MOO

 

[ThoughtFox]

Interesting 4-page article about other neighborhood watch groups in Florida and their practices:

http://www.ocala.com/article/20120403/ARTICLES/120409914/-1/entertainment02?p=2&tc=pg

“If you want to carry a weapon, you will not be on our patrol group,” said Richard Toneske, president of the Marion Landing community patrol.

Volunteer patrol officers have no arrest powers, no authority to detain or question, no authorization to take actions that law enforcement officers would, such as chases and pursuits, according to the Marion County Sheriff's Office Community Patrol training manual.

Toneske said he never leaves the patrol car that the Sheriff's Office gives to volunteers to ride around in their neighborhoods. They are required to wear uniforms while on patrol.

Much more at Link

 

[csziggy]

I don't mean you, I mean someone at NBC. Do you know what kind of levels of audit something like this goes through at a news agency before it goes on the air? Reputations of not only the one who did it, but the news director and on down the line.

Can anyone actually prove it was photoshopped?

It appears that image is from ABC News from an enhanced video by Forensic Protection, Inc. Since all I can get is a screen capture (they do not have that image on the site as a separate photo) I do not have the image digital data which would tell a lot about the history of the image.

ABC News would have some deniability since they attribute the video and the image to a different company. Also, the video the show on the web site - http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/geo...n-martin-16053206?tab=9482931&section=1206833 - does not have any sections of the video that match the actual screen capture of the enhanced still image. Their banner covers the relevant parts.

Here are the screen captures I got from that ABC News report video:
This is the closest match to the still image previously posted. Where are the "gashes" that are on that still image?

http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/GZ-GMA-enhanced_2.jpg

Here is a shot with better lighting, but only from the side. The still image showed a big "gash" around the right side of the back of GZ's head. Why is there no indication of anything on the back right side in this view?

http://www.woodswell.com/images/Trayvon/GZ-GMA-enhanced.jpg

I also like how nice and straight GZ's nose is in this shot, no sign of swelling, no sign of blood on his face, packing in the nostrils to stop blood, or difficulty breathing through his "broken nose" with his mouth shut.

No, I don't have proof. That is why I keep saying this is JMO - JUST MY OPINION.