Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #180

[TL4S]

You do understand an investigation is fluid so things changed over the course of the investigation. This was never set in stone and obviously it changed as it progressed.

This is like using something they said from 2018 to say “ well the investigation said this so it must be true”. Well no it’s a active investigation so things can change daily as the picture becomes clearer.

It's difficult to completely dismiss the idea of others being involved when NMcL was still saying, directly to the court after RA's arrest, that they had "good reason to believe" others were involved. If people believe every word in his court filings now, why didn't they believe him then? Sure, the investigation is fluid, but because of the gag order, nobody has taken back that comment. I don't fault anyone for remaining open to the idea.

I also recall after the PCA was unsealed by the court, folks were calling out NMcL because there didn't appear to be any reason to keep it sealed. And some of his early filings were filled incorrectly, IIRC. I guess my point is that I struggle with the sudden switch in the view on NMcL's competency to get it right, despite even very recently reading ex partes. I'm just glad he has brought on some more experienced help. Jmo.

Sidenote: At the time, I wondered if NMcL wanted the PCA sealed because of the witness statements about a vehicle, since one could infer that those same witnesses could then have potentially seen any other vehicle in the area as well. After the whole '65 Comet detail, I still wonder this about keeping the PCA sealed...

 

[Salah11]

It's difficult to completely dismiss the idea of others being involved when NMcL was still saying, directly to the court after RA's arrest, that they had "good reason to believe" others were involved. If people believe every word in his court filings, why don't they believe that?

I dismiss it because one man has been charged and is awaiting trial.

Also RA has confessed multiple times if there was multiple people caught up In this mess why wouldn’t he go for a lighter sentence and throw others under the bus?

It’s one man who was seen moments before the girls crossed the bridge and it’s one man charged. It’s also one voice on the audio recording not multiple.

People are free to believe in some grand conspiracy but unfortunately that’s not looking like that’s the case.

Moo

 

[TL4S]

I dismiss it because one man has been charged and is awaiting trial.

Also RA has confessed multiple times if there was multiple people caught up In this mess why wouldn’t he go for a lighter sentence and throw others under the bus?

It’s one man who was seen moments before the girls crossed the bridge and it’s one man charged. It’s also one voice on the audio recording not multiple.

People are free to believe in some grand conspiracy but unfortunately that’s not looking like that’s the case.

Moo

That's totally fair. A lot of people have come to the same conclusion. I have some questions I hope will be answered at trial before I can comfortably settle on a decision.

 

[FrostedGlass]

You do understand an investigation is fluid so things changed over the course of the investigation. This was never set in stone and obviously it changed as it progressed.

This is like using something they said from 2018 to say “ well the investigation said this so it must be true”. Well no it’s a active investigation so things can change daily as the picture becomes clearer.

Rest assured that I do understand the fluidity of a case; however, this one seemed pretty stagnant for a number of years.

IMO, what Carter had to say in 2020 about the number of people possibly involved in the crime is quite important. People like to hand-wave that part of the investigation away but I don't think Carter did. Just because they didn't follow through with it does not mean they shouldn't have.

For one thing, I can't recall Carter ever going out on the limb regarding the number of people who may have been involved. I haven't listened to every interview so I could have missed it. If you have, please share.
For another thing, in 2020, Click, Ferency and Murphy were well into their investigation of multiple suspects (the often-named ones.) Det. Murphy was an Indiana State Police detective, who was also a FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force member. So I'm guessing Carter was kept abreast of what was going on with their case, hence his comment in the video.

 

[susane7]

I dismiss it because one man has been charged and is awaiting trial.

Also RA has confessed multiple times if there was multiple people caught up In this mess why wouldn’t he go for a lighter sentence and throw others under the bus?

It’s one man who was seen moments before the girls crossed the bridge and it’s one man charged. It’s also one voice on the audio recording not multiple.

People are free to believe in some grand conspiracy but unfortunately that’s not looking like that’s the case.

Moo

I don't think people who believe in more than one person believe in conspiracy (I'm not talking about the odinist conspiracy). I understand why some people believe in more than one person because the KK thing and because it's difficult to some people believe that is was just such a opportunity crime commited by a normal CVS guy who was more sick and twisted than people thought. And took so long for LE resolved this. Also the timeline is tight. I think LE also believed in more one person during the investigation and contributed to that with their criptic comments - probably a typical and closed-minded mentality from a LE from a rural and small city IMO. All of that makes people believe it is a more complicated crime than it really is, in my opinion.

I agree 100% with you . I think and always believed it's a opportunity crime commited by one man who had sick fantasies and acted in that day. From what I've seen so far in the filings, no more people charged, he allegedly confessed and didn't throw others under the bus etc I still believe it's only one man.

 

[katydid23]

I totally agree with you that it was morally wrong but I'm not sure about the legality of it.
The charge is a criminal misdemeanor (conversion).

MW didn't put the photos on the net; he only shared them with a friend. Now that friend is gone and the people he shared them with, who also shared them with others are not being held responsible... as far as we know.

MW shouldn't have had the photos in the first place, much less 'sharing them' with a friend. Those were supposed to be sealed according to the court. IMO

 

[Salah11]

Rest assured that I do understand the fluidity of a case; however, this one seemed pretty stagnant for a number of years.

IMO, what Carter had to say in 2020 about the number of people possibly involved in the crime is quite important. People like to hand-wave that part of the investigation away but I don't think Carter did. Just because they didn't follow through with it does not mean they shouldn't have.

For one thing, I can't recall Carter ever going out on the limb regarding the number of people who may have been involved. I haven't listened to every interview so I could have missed it. If you have, please share.
For another thing, in 2020, Click, Ferency and Murphy were well into their investigation of multiple suspects (the often-named ones.) Det. Murphy was an Indiana State Police detective, who was also a FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force member. So I'm guessing Carter was kept abreast of what was going on with their case, hence his comment in the video.

I just want to say I didn’t mean to come across condescending in that post. I woke up to feed my dog early and it was 5.30am so when I came back at 10am I couldn’t edit to make it seem less so.

 

[sunshineray]

I dismiss it because one man has been charged and is awaiting trial.

Also RA has confessed multiple times if there was multiple people caught up In this mess why wouldn’t he go for a lighter sentence and throw others under the bus?

It’s one man who was seen moments before the girls crossed the bridge and it’s one man charged. It’s also one voice on the audio recording not multiple.

People are free to believe in some grand conspiracy but unfortunately that’s not looking like that’s the case.

Moo

The other(s) involved don't have to have been there, on scene in the woods, at the time of the murders to have culpability as accessories to the murders. MO

 

[Salah11]

The other(s) involved don't have to have been there, on scene in the woods, at the time of the murders to have culpability as accessories to the murders. MO

True but how many other people are awaiting trial for these murders?

 

[sunshineray]

True but how many other people are awaiting trial for these murders?

Yes but that doesn't necessarily mean there will never be other arrests.

 

[Salah11]

Yes but that doesn't necessarily mean there will never be other arrests.

Yes but the reverse is also true isn’t it?

 

[girlhasnoname]

If she had cause to find contempt, IMO she should have just dealt with it.

I saw an Elkhart Co magistrate charge an arrestee with contempt for calling him a name.
Nothing to it, a lengthy reprimand and Good Day, Sir. Enjoy your extra days in jail.
Bang went the gavel.

Now, what is JG going to do about Nick's unauthorized peeks at the ex parte filings?

This was just more than name calling, Judge Gull wanted all the facts before she made a ruling. The Defense is charged with major misconduct actions. I expect sanctions, fines or possibly both. We'll just have to wait on Judge Gull's ruling to see. It's funny to me that she can't 'win' no matter what the case. Hearing, no hearing, rulings, etc. I am glad she has the information from ISP, allowed the D to respond and the P to respond before making a decision.

N McL was sent the ex parte' request directly, he didn't go and steal it out of the D's office. It's not like he tried to hide anything, he wrote a Motion that next day asking for mental health records for RA. I don't know what would be a correct repercussion. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Yes but the reverse is also true isn’t it?

Possibly, if it's an ongoing investigation.

 

[DeDee]

There you go. I believe they don't give a fig about their client. Wonder why that would be?

I watched the trial of JodiArias for murdering TravisAlexander. Her defense counsel, KNurmi, kept sliding his chair a little further away from her as the days passed. By the end of the trial, his chair was so far away from her that it was barely under the D table any longer. Maybe he knew she was guilty and he despised trying to defend her. IDK.

Who knows what type of relationship RA's lawyers have with their client? They were not assigned to like this man. Their job is to defend him against egregious murder charges.

Perhaps they did not realize how shocking and repulsive the contents of the D Memo would be for the general public. As for myself, the Memo was so near what I suspected had happened that I was not surprised even a little bit. Leaving the beautiful girls in the woods was like a beacon shining the light on evil that permeates our world. The killer(s) wanted them found, in the open, for the shock and awe factor. I possess much empathy for the community.

MOO

 

[justtrish]

That's totally fair. A lot of people have come to the same conclusion. I have some questions I hope will be answered at trial before I can comfortably settle on a decision.

I do still wonder if there was an online angle they were trying to figure out still after his arrest. The KK nonsense with the fake account talking to girls could also have been something that they thought BG was doing. I do still wonder if it was 100% a chance encounter or if BG (who I believe is RA) either communicated with the girls beforehand or if he tracked them somehow via an app and it wasn't so "chance". If this was the case, then it could be that others were wrapped up in some online child predator ring and not necessarily others were involved in the abduction/murders.

Edited to correct TK to KK.

 

[sunshineray]

This was just more than name calling, Judge Gull wanted all the facts before she made a ruling. The Defense is charged with major misconduct actions. I expect sanctions, fines or possibly both. We'll just have to wait on Judge Gull's ruling to see. It's funny to me that she can't 'win' no matter what the case. Hearing, no hearing, rulings, etc. I am glad she has the information from ISP, allowed the D to respond and the P to respond before making a decision.

N McL was sent the ex parte' request directly, he didn't go and steal it out of the D's office. It's not like he tried to hide anything, he wrote a Motion that next day asking for mental health records for RA. I don't know what would be a correct repercussion. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

MOO

Apples to watermelons...MO

 

[TTF14]

You do understand an investigation is fluid so things changed over the course of the investigation. This was never set in stone and obviously it changed as it progressed.

This is like using something they said from 2018 to say “ well the investigation said this so it must be true”. Well no it’s a active investigation so things can change daily as the picture becomes clearer.

Why do you suppose that on the day of the press conference announcing RA's arrest, Doug Carter told a reporter, "We haven't cleared anybody."

ANYBODY.

 

[FrostedGlass]

This was just more than name calling, Judge Gull wanted all the facts before she made a ruling. The Defense is charged with major misconduct actions. I expect sanctions, fines or possibly both. We'll just have to wait on Judge Gull's ruling to see. It's funny to me that she can't 'win' no matter what the case. Hearing, no hearing, rulings, etc. I am glad she has the information from ISP, allowed the D to respond and the P to respond before making a decision.

N McL was sent the ex parte' request directly, he didn't go and steal it out of the D's office. It's not like he tried to hide anything, he wrote a Motion that next day asking for mental health records for RA. I don't know what would be a correct repercussion. It's like comparing apples to oranges.

MOO

I'm beginning to think she would like to throw them in jail if she has enough to back the decision up.

Hearings are good for a case, IMO; except for when the only reason behind it is to embarrass the defense.
We really need them now so the attorneys and prosecution can see where their at, get ready for trial.

https://www.in.gov/courts/iocs/files/pubs-contempt-procedure-benchcard.pdf

As for Nick and the ex parte incidents, I'm hard pressed to believe he doesn't know case law.
Here's an excerpt from the judge's order on sealing documents:

...and that the Defense Ex Parte Motions and related Orders shall remain sealed pursuant to long established case law.

Pg 42

Record of Proceedings.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[justtrish]

Why do you suppose that on the day of the press conference announcing RA's arrest, Doug Carter told a reporter, "We haven't cleared anybody."

ANYBODY.

If I recall correctly the discovery of RA came about rather quickly and he was questioned once and then a second time fairly quickly in the fall of 2022. I just wonder if this comment about nobody being cleared was simply because they wanted to make sure there was no connection between RA to anyone else. They likely didn't have time to thoroughly investigate any connection between RA and anyone else. If I am remembering right, they also had KK arrested and they were trying to see who all KK was connected too with this online CSAM stuff.

 

[Salah11]

Why do you suppose that on the day of the press conference announcing RA's arrest, Doug Carter told a reporter, "We haven't cleared anybody."

ANYBODY.

The case evolved after he was arrested. Once they had got the evidence back and spoken to him it became clear he was a Lone Ranger and there was not some grand Web of coconspirators.

IMO