AR - Debra Stevens dies in flash flood, rude 911 operator Donna Reneau, Fort Smith, 29 Aug 2019

[kaen]

Wow. A second woman with a similar experience and, fortunately, a different outome.

To be frank, I know first responders can't save everyone. I have been in a situation (as a civilian but trained in first aid/cpr) where I came upon an accident of two teens who were clearly deceased. The other person who stopped and I did what we could but we felt impotent realizing we weren't changing an outcome. First responders are in that situation all the time-- despite best efforts but getting negative results.

First responders have to insure their safety while trying to protect the lives of those in peril or severely injured. I think this department was caught short handed given the event that was occurring. First responders take their lead from those who prioritize calls-- they have to trust the calls made by their dispatch and leadership team. The woman who survived felt she was misled about the order of priority and ETA of the help. To a person who may need to make a decision to leave their vehicle or whatever she could do, if the information was misleading, then, they could have been responsible for her death. Terrifying.

I have not had any kind words for the dispatcher in Ms. Steven's case or this new one (if they are not the same person--but IIRC the LEO said that only one person was on duty that night s0.....). And, I still don't. When people are panicked, the person helping can't be hysterical but rather calm, clear, matter of fact, and provide hope. No one wants a dispatcher who is crying with the person or unable to think clearly. It is a delicate balance. At the end of the day, a dispatcher with little or no empathy should not have the job. In Ms. Smith's case, she hung up and got help on her own because her dispatcher was misleading and unkind. This is beyond excusable.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Wow. A second woman with a similar experience and, fortunately, a different outome.

To be frank, I know first responders can't save everyone. I have been in a situation (as a civilian but trained in first aid/cpr) where I came upon an accident of two teens who were clearly deceased. The other person who stopped and I did what we could but we felt impotent realizing we weren't changing an outcome. First responders are in that situation all the time-- despite best efforts but getting negative results.

First responders have to insure their safety while trying to protect the lives of those in peril or severely injured. I think this department was caught short handed given the event that was occurring. First responders take their lead from those who prioritize calls-- they have to trust the calls made by their dispatch and leadership team. The woman who survived felt she was misled about the order of priority and ETA of the help. To a person who may need to make a decision to leave their vehicle or whatever she could do, if the information was misleading, then, they could have been responsible for her death. Terrifying.

I have not had any kind words for the dispatcher in Ms. Steven's case or this new one (if they are not the same person--but IIRC the LEO said that only one person was on duty that night s0.....). And, I still don't. When people are panicked, the person helping can't be hysterical but rather calm, clear, matter of fact, and provide hope. No one wants a dispatcher who is crying with the person or unable to think clearly. It is a delicate balance. At the end of the day, a dispatcher with little or no empathy should not have the job. In Ms. Smith's case, she hung up and got help on her own because her dispatcher was misleading and unkind. This is beyond excusable.

The channel 5 broadcast said there were four dispatchers on duty that night, and they listen to the second call and it was not Donna.

 

[Handsome Sailor]

I'm torn. It's drilled into everyone's head nowadays not to drive into water, on the other hand dispatchers need to be kind and not judgmental.

 

[kaen]

I'm torn. It's drilled into everyone's head nowadays not to drive into water, on the other hand dispatchers need to be kind and not judgmental.

I kind of look at it this way. When a person goes to the hospital for chest pains and they are asked about their prior health habits, it would inappropriate for the health provider to scold them for being overweight, drinking and smoking before getting them stabilized and out of danger for their potential heart attack.

Yes, we are warned and put on notice but mistakes happen, poor decisions made and sometimes people don't get it. You are right about kindness and withholding judgment on the part of those who are in the rescue business. The last thing we want is for someone to not call 911 because they fear they were "stupid" and responders would not want to help them.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I want to be very clear, I do not blame the first responders who came to assist.

They take the lead about any situation from the first one involved, the 911 dispatchers.

Plus they must first make sure those responding are safe. Its paramount for if they aren't protected then more lives can be lost while trying to save others.

They cant just rush in blindly in any dangerous situation. Safety protocol is there for a valid reason.

It's no different when EMTs are called to a dangerous violent situation where victims may have been injuried by a violent offender. It must be deemed safe first before they approach, and only to do so once it's been declared safe to give aide or approach for EMTs, and police officers as well.

Hands on first responders save thousands or perhaps millions of lives every single day in our country.

We see many stories of off duty police officers rushing to save someone's life while off duty or EMTs also saving children or adults who were in life threatening situations. Why? Because it's in their DNA to help others. It's who they are whether on duty or off.

So while this one 911 Dispatcher was devoid of human compassion when badly needed..
. she doesn't begin to define the vast majority who go the extra mile each, and every day for all in distress.

Someone mentioned the dispatcher shouldn't cry. Of course not, but that never means they can't show deep compassion, and empathy when handling any dire situation happening at the time for the other one on the end of the line.

Since I am a true crime addict, I have watched many many shows for years on those specific channels.

If the victims survived or if their loved ones did not they give full appreciation to all of the 911 operators who made it much better for them until help arrived.

Many of them said they were able to endure what was happening due to the compassion, and sincere concern they felt from all of the 911 Dispatchers.

So there definitely is a way for dispatchers to do their jobs professionally while showing deep compassion, and sincere concern for all others calling, and pleading for help.

Many of the dispatchers interviewed said they are always mindful they may be the last one the desperate callers ever speaks with.

Those are the ones who make fantastic dispatchers. They usually do not burn out quickly with being on the job for a few years. Why? Imo, because these are the ones meant for this important position because they genuinely care about anyone, and everyone who calls 911, and those true feelings doesn't subside because their feelings are genuinely felt.

However, some shouldn't ever become 911 dispatchers, and does it for all of the wrong reasons.

IMOO, this woman is one of them. Imo, she took this position because it was more about herself than ever saving the lives of others. They aren't there as judge, jury, and executioner of anyone...just like all outsiders aren't.

Imoo, She liked the power it gave her over someone else's life at possibly the worst most trying time in their lives.

She ended her last day the way she truly felt about others in great need of her assistance. She made it clear they were more of a bother than genuinely caring deeply about the other one on the end of the life line.

Anyone saying....well they knew they shouldn't drive through water in the first place.... is as unfairly judgemental as this 911 Dispatcher. They aren't there in this important position to judge anyone else, and certainly not in this position to blame anyone else who may call needing help. That is reprehensible.

They are being called because they need assistance no matter the situation....period.

Imo, that will be the legacy she left behind for others to remember. Imoo


JMHOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I dont know about other areas in the nation, but our grandson who is a Sgt. with our Sheriff's Department said the behavior of this particular 911 Dispatcher has caused them to call a serious meeting with all of their Dispatchers, and officers.

Not only did the Sheriff say he better never hear of any of his Dispatchers behaving this way to anyone calling in for assistance because they will be immediately fired. But he also asked all of his Deputies did they have any complaints of their own about any of the Dispatchers.

They did. Especially with a couple. It seems they have also been putting officers at risk.

Dispatchers must always be mindful of the exact location of the officers when they relay any vital information they need.

One officer complained he wasn't being advised before arriving at the scene when DV was involved when going to a place where DV has happened knowing it can be very dangerous time for the officers arriving. When it's just labeled a mere disturbance only one officer responds.

The Dispatcher was just coding it as disturbance which could simply mean the parties are just arguing without any weapons involved. Here when any DV call is received they make sure the officer arrives with backup never going solely to what could be a volatile unsafe scene.

Also complaints were expressed that 1 of the dispatchers would give the officers needed information, such as weapons charges, outstanding warrants, etc and the officers would be standing right in front of the offenders when it was transmitted for everyone could hear. Ugh!

All Dispatchers must know when doing so the officer's specific location at the time to make sure it's only heard by the arriving officers. If not, it puts the officer's life in jeopardy. It also makes the situation even worse with the officers assaulted or the offender or offenders trying to flee.

To say the least the Sheriff was highly upset to learn of these egregious errors being made.

He suspended one who must go to more training classes even though she has been there for years. She should have known better. She was the one relaying information after she knew the officers had arrived at the scenes in close proximity to the possible offenders that may be arrested.

He reprimanded, and wrote up the other one, which will remain in her employment record. She is the one who wasn't giving the right information by using the proper code needed to signal it was a DV situation when it was. She is rather new, but he is also sending her back to training classes too.

He told his deputies, staff, including the other Dispatchers... they are to notify him immediately about any problems with any of the Dispatchers.

So out of every tragedy usually does comes good.

I hope all police departments across the country are having these same much needed meetings.

Jmho

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I dont know about other areas in the nation, but our grandson who is a Sgt. with our Sheriff's Department said the behavior of this particular 911 Dispatcher has caused them to call a serious meeting with all of their Dispatchers, and officers.

Not only did the Sheriff say he better never hear of any of his Dispatchers behaving this way to anyone calling in for assistance because they will be immediately fired. But he also asked all of his Deputies did they have any complaints of their own about any of the Dispatchers.

They did. Especially with a couple. It seems they have also been putting officers at risk.

Dispatchers must always be mindful of the exact location of the officers when they relay any vital information they need.

One officer complained he wasn't being advised before arriving at the scene when DV was involved when going to a place where DV has happened knowing it can be very dangerous time for the officers arriving. When it's just labeled a mere disturbance only one officer responds.

The Dispatcher was just coding it as disturbance which could simply mean the parties are just arguing without any weapons involved. Here when any DV call is received they make sure the officer arrives with backup never going solely to what could be a volatile unsafe scene.

Also complaints were expressed that 1 of the dispatchers would give the officers needed information, such as weapons charges, outstanding warrants, etc and the officers would be standing right in front of the offenders when it was transmitted for everyone could hear. Ugh!

All Dispatchers must know when doing so the officer's specific location at the time to make sure it's only heard by the arriving officers. If not, it puts the officer's life in jeopardy. It also makes the situation even worse with the officers assaulted or the offender or offenders trying to flee.

To say the least the Sheriff was highly upset to learn of these egregious errors being made.

He suspended one who must go to more training classes even though she has been there for years. She should have known better. She was the one relaying information after she knew the officers had arrived at the scenes in close proximity to the possible offenders that may be arrested.

He reprimanded, and wrote up the other one, which will remain in her employment record. She is the one who wasn't giving the right information by using the proper code needed to signal it was a DV situation when it was. She is rather new, but he is also sending her back to training classes too.

He told his deputies, staff, including the other Dispatchers... they are to notify him immediately about any problems with any of the Dispatchers.

So out of every tragedy usually does comes good.

I hope all police departments across the country are having these same much needed meetings.

Jmho

Thanks for sharing that!

A new article. Fire Department conducts enhanced review of Debra Stevens drowning response

“There hasn’t been any wrongdoing. It’s just to see if things could be done more efficiently in a similar incident,” Christensen said Friday, adding that none of the firefighters who responded to the incident have been placed on administrative leave.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thanks for sharing that!

A new article. Fire Department conducts enhanced review of Debra Stevens drowning response

“There hasn’t been any wrongdoing. It’s just to see if things could be done more efficiently in a similar incident,” Christensen said Friday, adding that none of the firefighters who responded to the incident have been placed on administrative leave.

Thank you.

I know without a doubt the firefighters responding to rescue her... did everything they could, as fast as they could, while making sure they were also safe by not drowning themselves as they always should.

However, I totally disagree with him on this dispatcher, and her abhorrent communications with this poor woman who was in a life threatening situation.

If this kind of behavior is perfectly acceptble in that community then I'm even more appalled.

We are blessed to have great first responders including our police force, EMT/Paramedics, and our beloved firefighters. If our Sheriff sees a problem with his Dispatchers or anyone for that matter he doesnt try to sugarcoat it, but meets it head on to solve it instead.

There were many things that bothered him about this Dispatcher's attitude, but I think what bothered him most is the way she talked down to this pleading woman ...as if she thought she was superior, and had every right to exercise her snooty judgemental attitude during the last minutes, and worst time of her life. I 100 percent agree with him.

Jmhoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It haunts me even now knowing this woman's voice was the last she heard before drowning.

She truly had to feel all alone, and felt she was more of a bother to someone who seemed not to care if she lived or died as if she deserved it.

Jmho

 

[dixiegirl1035]

It haunts me even now knowing this woman's voice was the last she heard before drowning.

She truly had to feel all alone, and felt she was more of a bother to someone who seemed not to care if she lived or died as if she deserved it.

Jmho

It makes me wonder if I should drill into my mind to make a 3-way call, calling someone else first and then having the 911 operator added in if something like that ever happened to me. Most smartphones, it's easy to do. I've never even considered that until this very second. At least I would have somebody on the line that I could talk to and pray with and comfort me that I knew.

 

[kaen]

It makes me wonder if I should drill into my mind to make a 3-way call, calling someone else first and then having the 911 operator added in if something like that ever happened to me. Most smartphones, it's easy to do. I've never even considered that until this very second. At least I would have somebody on the line that I could talk to and pray with and comfort me that I knew.

The idea of a three way call makes sense. It is awful that a person would need to do that though. Historically, the call center operator would be the person who would talk you through what you can do, route services to you, and keep you calm on the line. It is too bad that we have entered the age of that support potentially not being part of what you can expect from an operator.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The idea of a three way call makes sense. It is awful that a person would need to do that though. Historically, the call center operator would be the person who would talk you through what you can do, route services to you, and keep you calm on the line. It is too bad that we have entered the age of that support potentially not being part of what you can expect from an operator.

Ita!

Tragically for our nation, and for many of it's people in it, we have so many now who have become cold, reeking of only negativity, hatefulness, unfeeling, and lacking compassion, and empathy for so many others.

Although absolutely appalled by this Dispatcher's hateful, unfairly judgemental, cold unfeeling attitude, I'm not the last bit surprised the reeking negativity attitude has now toxically spilled over into Dispatchers.

This is only one who has thankfully been exposed to the nation. It's only logical though it's also happening in other dire situations as well.

She demeaned, degraded, and unfairly talked down to the very one who had helped to pay her salary for the five years she was in this profession.

Maybe it would have behooved her to gain the knowledge needed why it's called FLASH FLOODS in the first place.

Jmho

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It makes me wonder if I should drill into my mind to make a 3-way call, calling someone else first and then having the 911 operator added in if something like that ever happened to me. Most smartphones, it's easy to do. I've never even considered that until this very second. At least I would have somebody on the line that I could talk to and pray with and comfort me that I knew.

Morning!

I think that is an excellent idea!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Okay guys, sit down for this one, and grab some tissues.

Joint Service To Be Held In Fort Smith For Woman Who Drowned In Flash Flooding, And Her Mother

A joint memorial service will be held Saturday (Sept. 21) in Fort Smith for Debbie Stevens and her now-deceased mother Nancy Organ. Steven's mother, Nancy passed away about a week ago. The joint service will be held at Eastside Baptist Church at 4 p.m.

My heart is broken in a million pieces, and that perhaps it is what happened to her mother.

 

[kaen]

That is just so tragic.

 

[BlackCloud]

Ita!

Tragically for our nation, and for many of it's people in it, we have so many now who have become cold, reeking of only negativity, hatefulness, unfeeling, and lacking compassion, and empathy for so many others.

Unfortunately the rest of the world is not that different...

 

[MsFacetious]

The idea of a three way call makes sense. It is awful that a person would need to do that though. Historically, the call center operator would be the person who would talk you through what you can do, route services to you, and keep you calm on the line. It is too bad that we have entered the age of that support potentially not being part of what you can expect from an operator.

I would do this more to know I'd be taken seriously because someone who knew me knew what was going on.
We've seen trapped people, abducted people, assaulted people who have been failed by 911.

Whether just not believed, or no real effort expended... the lack of action by 911/LE led to their death.
A family member will certainly look harder than a tired cop. So that's always been my theory there.

 

[StarrChance]

This link has over an hour video and one of the First Responders body cam. He sees her and talks to the people in her complex prior to finding her car and afterwards. What is so so sad is that he sees her before her phone goes dead. And I think he heard, and all the First Responders did, that she had passed away right afterwards and that is why there was not immediacy to recover her. When I noted the times, I noted it was 2 minutes difference from when the policeman was saying he found the car and was shining his light on it, and could see her light at the top of her ceiling, and then he walked away.

I just came back from the grocery store and the fire department had a fundraiser in a boot. I gave them money, and I said in memory of Debra Stevens and the 911 failure that must have devastated another fire Department.

https://7news.com.au/news/disaster-...-the-phone-moments-before-she-drowns-c-429022

There is another website that has an hour-and-a-half video of her call and First Responders body cams, but I am running late and I have to just post this as the first one in case somebody else wants to research the longer one.

Most times as a websluether when I see caution *graphic* I’m ok and can compartmentalise, this one is traumatising when you hear the poor lady who desperately wanted help.
My eldest son is an officer who has dealt with much and now my youngest son is a triple O (000) dispatcher. Absolutely no way they would treat someone in such a dire circumstance like that.

 

[StarrChance]

Learn What You Should Do If You're in Your Car During a Flash Flood

• Do not stay in a flooded car. If your vehicle is surrounded by floodwater, abandon the vehicle and move immediately to higher ground.
• If your car is swept into the water and submerged DON'T PANIC! Stay calm and wait for the vehicle to fill with water. Once the vehicle is full, the doors will open. Hold your breath and swim to the surface.

This has always made me worry what to do in this situation, if the car /windows lock .

 

[weepingangel]

The Best Car Escape Tools: Make a Quick Exit During an Emergency

I’ve bought several of the ResQme keychains

Many first responders/medical folks carry them off duty to use if they come upon an accident scene and need to bust a window