GUILTY Australia - Andrew, 45, Rose, 44, & Chantelle Rowe, 16, slain, Kapunda, 8 Nov 2010 #5

[Cyclone82]

Ok when i saw that thing about a ** yr old girl on FB I did not interpret that they were saying a girl was involved. The way i understood it someone said something was on someones page and then somone else said something like dont get her involved shes only ** yrs old or something but then i could see how some people were interpreting that there was a girl involved, but i didnt interpret it that way at all. Anyway im not sure we can look much into that if we no longer have the screen caps from the 'Kupunda murders' site or was it on the tribute site??

We keep getting back to DNA evidence. Unfortunately we have no idea what sort and how much and how damning it is.

It would be pretty damming i would say. They aint gonna charge someone if they find their blood on a tissue in the bin from a blood nose or sweat on the fridge door handle from a party the night before. It would be more like the accuseds blood found on one of the dead bodies and the accuseds bloody finger prints found with the desceasds blood on them. dont know how you would talk you way out of that one!.

If the DNA at the scene didnt match the accuseds i dont see how they would arrest him, basically pack up and go home if they thought there was only a slight chance he was the guy. They would'nt just arrest someone on light evidence. There have been no fresh calls for witnesses' or information from the police indicating they are lookig for someone else, so im sure that they are sure they got the right guy.

Ok lets say say the only DNA they have of the accused is some blood on a tissue which could be claimed it was from the night of the party when he had a blood nose for example. Now remember that the forensics only found one lot of unknown DNA. That must of ment that who ever killed the family didnt leave ANY DNA AT ALL! because the police only found one lot. So in that scenario it would have ment that the murderer was a highly experienced killer and knew how to leave no traces of himself/herself behind, oh but they were still inexperienced enough to leave a trail of bloody foot prints from the door leading outside to the foot path!. That doesnt make sense to me.

Which returns us to the question, if it wasnt the accused whos responsible then who hated CR enough to do this or hire a semi pro killer to this??? Its so far fetched its not funny.

 

[Fuskier]

Hi all. I'm new. Have been reading threads for a couple of days now. Found this site from 'aussiecriminals' site and admire nature of mature discussion.

Here are some opinions and further info for consideration:

This crime is abberant and horrific; it is as bad as it gets anywhere in the world and I, like many of you, also wonder what drives one, so young, to commit such violent, brutal acts.

Firstly, the SAPOL have handled this professionally. It is their job to identify 'the risks', balance 'the risks' and formulate action to achieve the arrest of the suspect, whilst ensuring the 'safety' of other people. They have achieved this. Well done!

They had the suspect under surveillance, were aware of his 'calm' suspecting he had discharged explosive energy acting-out his murderous rage and brutal slaughter of the family - leaving him 'depleted' at that stage.

Most likely, the journey of the co-worker and suspect was 'shadowed' with armed, plain clothed police.

The distress/shock experienced by the co-worker and his loved ones was post the arrest and is understandable. It comes from retrospectively attributed fear/imagination/speculation and feelings aroused about what 'could have happened'. We need to remember that nothing did happen during the journey and the Police had it well covered.

Regarding the victim, some comments indicate that she seemed to 'flirt' with the accused in her FB messages. This 'innocent flirting' is common for young 16 year old girls who have little awareness of how their messages may be perceived.
She is not responsible for how her messages were being perceived by the accused.

Regarding the accused, he posted a dp of his victim and himself on his FB (now removed) page; the timing of this is crucial; futher the first friend listed was called "Midnight Killer" with a dp of a huge metal robot. Are sleuthers aware of this? (Page now removed). Further, he initiated contact with his victim; wanted to watch his victim play netball etc; was monitoring his victim's relationships etc.

Thanks to other sleuthers we have gather info from his bebo and some of the songs there seem 'robotic' and may show his mindset: "I'm coming, I'm coming..." and somebody is going to die etc (see earlier thread). It talks about dark vengeance and acting out violence.

Most 16 year old girls would not know how to handle someone like this, but would most likely feel uncomfortable about him; may have confided only in close friends/family.

This is a violent, gruesome triple murder as brutal as they get anywhere in the world and there should be no excuse for it in terms of The Law. The horrific nature of this crime has shocked resident in Kapunda, Australia and elsewhere in the world.

Condolences to the surviving family member and extended loved ones.
If proven guilty - bring back the death penalty!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

:Welcome-12-june::Welcome-12-june::Welcome-12-june:

Fuskier!! Great first post, could not possibly agree with you more, and great insights on poss tailing of accused and co-worker by undercovers, still digesting your post, but good to have you here.

 

[Rachydoodle]

There is a lot of stories going around and I cannot dismiss any of it until I have all the facts, I only have some. But if you take even some of what may of been done to the victims, It reminds me of what a jealous woman who could not stand being rejected by her man-remind you of anyone(or anyone else, as it was proved over the case) She actually stabbed him to death in a horrendous fashion, actually skinned him like a rabbit pelt , hung his skin on a hook in his house, leaving he de-skinned body exposed in a significant pose in the lounge. She then put his severed head on the stove, chopped some veggies as if cooking a stew, Laid out plates for dinner (for his kids???) and at some stage went to bed. When the police came across this scene she claimed (and still does-actually did for a long time, but suprising everyone, changed her plea to guilty very early in the trial I actually meant to say she hasnt spoken about the details,ever)) to know nothing about it. Awful isn’t it? But this happened in Australia, not that long ago.

It never reached the heights of media frenzy I would expect but a lot was not told in the public arena. her name was Katherine Knight, her slaughtered partner was a typical Aussie bloke called John “Pricey” Price. An excellent book by Sandra Lee covers it extensively. A wicked woman in a small country town…I will cover it here when I find some time

(I might add, she has said next to nothing and only gave police one interview in the early stages and has stayed silent since, treated children wonderfully the town said, but when it came to men was a woman scorned at the smallest bump in a relationship!)

I know the story well Robb.. fascinating story.. but she worked in an abattoir and everyone that knew her said she was absolutely insane.. there was NO other perp/situation that fit other than her.. almost 0 mystery except "how can someone do that to another person" very very sad case as well..

While I do think SAPOL have gotten it right in Kapunda it doesn't seem to be as clear cut (pardon the punn) as the Price/Knight case!

 

[midsommer]

Interesting post Fuskier, however it still assumes that the police can do no wrong, never make mistakes and that they must have irreputable proof of the guilt of the acussed.

Like some other posters, you say the police would not have arrested the acussed without definate evidence. You and I will have to agree to disagree on that point.

Regarding the supposed trip to the police station with the co-worker and the accused, if it is as you say and the police followed and watched the trip with care, then why on earth didn't they simply take the accused to the police station themselves?

As usual, I am not saying the acussed is innocent, just that the motive, which is supposed to be jealousy and unrequited love, has not been demonstrated to my satisfaction. I have read the posts between CR and the acussed and I think it is drawing a long bow to think he was infatuated with her. The posts seem nothing more than ordinary freindship to me.

 

[Cyclone82]

Hi - and sorry - I can see how that was confusing. A 'phantom poster' copied part of Person B's FB page onto the family tribute page and the reference to the 15 yo was (as Cyclone82 said) someone else telling the phantom poster to back off as this person was young.

Yeah thats what i thought it was about.

 

[sbr]

I have to say I have been thinking along exactly the same lines for quite a while now. But the huge flaw in that theory, and the reason I never posted it (I don't think ) is that if it happened like that, why not tell the police immediately?

The only reason I can come up with for not tell the police that story, if that was what happened, is if he feared they would not believe him and that he might get blamed and arrested.

Well with the way everyone is reacting due to his size they would probably find that more believable then the scrawny kid killing all 3. He could have said something on the lines of that the father caught them in the act, got into a rage and it went from there. But a father isn't going to "allegedly" gut his daughter like that, that's something much more personal.

The reason I initally thought that way was FB posts of people who knew the family. Many at first assumed that A had murdered his family and then committed suicide. I wondered what the history was that had made them jump to that conclussion.

Perhaps because the police said that it may be a murder/suicide and the family assumed because there was no signs of a robbery and they couldn't think of why anyone would want to personally harm the family like that.

I have the links to posts I refer to above.

links?

 

[sbr]

Condolences to the surviving family member and extended loved ones.
If proven guilty - bring back the death penalty!

Nah if guilty, he doesn't deserve the death penalty but rather a life time in fear of dropping the soap!

 

[Cyclone82]

The death penalty is the easy way out i reckon, although i do hear they get many luxuries in prisons these days.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

DP cases = years of appeals too, and cost taxpayers more in the long run than a lifetime in prison unfortunately.

In a recent editorial, the Chicago Sun-Times supported the abolition of the death penalty in Illinois during the current legislative session. The paper noted its past support for capital punishment: "In the past, we've supported the death penalty as long as the legal system gives the accused a fair trial that results in a verdict of guilt beyond resonable doubt. Sadly, in light of experiences in recent years, that goal seems unrealistic." Among the reasons for favoring abolition, the paper wrote that, "The death penalty is arbitrary - handed down in some cases but not in others with similar facts. Even with the best safeguards in place, it's unreliable, with irreversible consequences. And it's costly," consuming $100 million in the past 7 years. As an alternative, the editorial noted that, "Like the death penalty, life without parole keeps heinous criminals off our streets, deters serious offenses and gives victims a sense that justice has been served." Continued at link:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/editorials-illinois-outlaw-death-penalty-save-lives-and-cash

 

[nobody11]

Death penalty is murder, whether it is done by the state or by someone who is warped, it's still murder

 

[midsommer]

And why is it that ppl harp on about how he liked a Saw song and Eminem, yet they never mention that he listed among his other likes things such as How I met Your Mother, Hey Hey It's Saturday, Ellen Degeneres and 2 and a Half Men?

 

[James23]

Drove past Yatala prison today, quite an intimidating place and thats just from the outside. Cant imagine what sort of hells await this goofy, dork of a kid for the next 50+ years.

 

[midsommer]

links?

Yes, I have them - to the FB comments - but I am not allowed to post them here.

 

[midsommer]

Death penalty is murder, whether it is done by the state or by someone who is warped, it's still murder

Totally and utterly agree with you!
I would not want to live in a country that was so backward it still had the death penalty.
Every life is precious and nobody has the right to take a life, even as a penalty for murder.
Have I mentioned I have extremely strong religious views, or had other posters worked that out already

 

[midsommer]

Drove past Yatala prison today, quite an intimidating place and thats just from the outside. Cant imagine what sort of hells await this goofy, dork of a kid for the next 50+ years.

Sadly, yes I can.
It is a deadful, dreadful thing to be locked up and have no privacy, no control, eat, sleep, work, shower when you are told to.
It can completely destroy a soul.
But you know what? In any more cases it actually saves a soul.
It is a guelling and painful process, but when a convicted criminal comes out the other side they can be redeemed, healed and forgiven.
They may still be locked up, but it is amazing the power and good they can do.

 

[nobody11]

And why is it that ppl harp on about how he liked a Saw song and Eminem, yet they never mention that he listed among his other likes things such as How I met Your Mother, Hey Hey It's Saturday, Ellen Degeneres and 2 and a Half Men?

If people thought over everything as a whole with the small amount of fact's that have been released then they wouldn't know what to think, I just guess it is easier to take small snippets and paint the picture of a monster, because that way it makes sense...Maybe?

 

[aimeli]

May i just say how much i am enjoying the civilised debate, brainstorming on this forum. It is so refreshing to have somewhere you can feel able to post without ridicule. I am very shy and forums scare me hence the jan 09 join date. So thanks guys.

And to the on the fencers your thoughts are most thought provoking so :blowkiss:

 

[nobody11]

May i just say how much i am enjoying the civilised debate, brainstorming on this forum. It is so refreshing to have somewhere you can feel able to post without ridicule. I am very shy and forums scare me hence the jan 09 join date. So thanks guys.

And to the on the fencers your thoughts are most thought provoking so :blowkiss:

I am with you there Aimeli! Pity there wasn't more fence sitters in here so the convo's could be more open than they are!
And back at you:blowkiss:

 

[Aussiecriminals]

aimeli you have hit the nail on the head ( bit awful but we get what you mean) The society we live in has created a scenario that when and where we decide, we get to discuss situations...the good the bad and ugly...and wickedly vicious,,, that affect our lives...

I am quite explosive in my thoughts, yet think I speak for the majority in that stuff protecting those that chose to commit disgusting crimes against our neighbours, close or far...