Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #19

[MrPickles]

Neither do I have an issue with the Luxembourg trip- in hindsight it all worked out well, I was just taking a jab at the "investigative" part of the journalism and the fact that they link to the advert was right under their nose. But the way it all played out probably worked in their favour.

and agree on the Remarkel approcah

IMO, FN didn’t exactly help himself from the get go. When FR answered the door, SL was very polite in explaining who she was, why she was there and just wanted to ask him a few questions. I totally understand SL and BS being highly suspicious by his lack of willingness to speak with them. He was defensive from the get go - responded to them in French when he (later) clearly speaks very good English.

I understand from his POV it would be unnerving - but from what we learned last night, FR was aware his identity had been stolen. A new puzzle piece that would surely force NSW police to at least investigate the 1994 Le Courrier ad in connection with Marion’s disappearance.

 

[bbbounce]

Why do we keep going on about why the money was taken $5000 a day? The CBA witness at the inquest covered this off very clearly IMO. He explained it was in some type of high yield deposit account where you couldn’t just take the total lump some out without penalty, this why it had to be taken in lots of $5000. If anything this indicates to me that Marion possibly knew this when she deposited the funds, and had no intention at the time of depositing the money that she would need to remove it in a lump sum or large amounts in the very near future.

It makes me think this might have been a loophole in the CBA product that you could take out $5000 each day, but I still think it should have flagged in their systems as a suspicious transaction, even back in 97. And is it possible whoever withdrawing the funds had a sympathetic teller who allowed them to bend the rules? Having worked in this field for many years, I also think all that is possible, especially in 97 IMO. It still never sits well with me how that bank teller gave such specific evidence at the previous inquest. The link to Bali seems to fit, but most Aussies have been to Bali, it’s a close and cheap holiday from most parts of Australia.

If only the NSW police had of acted quickly, I think the money trail and bank records would have gone a long way to uncovering what happened.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Why do we keep going on about why the money was taken $5000 a day? The CBA witness at the inquest covered this off very clearly IMO. He explained it was in some type of high yield deposit account where you couldn’t just take the total lump some out without penalty, this why it had to be taken in lots of $5000. If anything this indicates to me that Marion possibly knew this when she deposited the funds, and had no intention at the time of depositing the money that she would need to remove it in a lump sum or large amounts in the very near future.

It makes me think this might have been a loophole in the CBA product that you could take out $5000 each day, but I still think it should have flagged in their systems as a suspicious transaction, even back in 97. And is it possible whoever withdrawing the funds had a sympathetic teller who allowed them to bend the rules? Having worked in this field for many years, I also think all that is possible, especially in 97 IMO. It still never sits well with me how that bank teller gave such specific evidence at the previous inquest. The link to Bali seems to fit, but most Aussies have been to Bali, it’s a close and cheap holiday from most parts of Australia.

If only the NSW police had of acted quickly, I think the money trail and bank records would have gone a long way to uncovering what happened.

Do you mean it was a term deposit?
I missed this fact.

 

[mishy66]

Do you mean it was a term deposit?
I missed this fact.

From MB FB page
"""On 2nd June, a high performance cash account is opened in which cash from the sale of her home is placed.
The question is, if she was planning to withdraw or transfer this significant sum only four months later on October 15th why bother to open such an account in the first place ?
The bank manager of the Ashmore branch, David Martin, stated in his evidence that a maximum of $5k could be withdrawn from this type of account daily and it was a far more restrictive account that the daily all-in-one account. Why did Marion place this large sum of money into such an account ?
The bank account was under the same member number as her other accounts, but it is interesting that she didn't change her accounts to her new identity".

 

[M0nnyka]

I have no problem with "the team" going to Luxembourg.

I do with the way that the real Fernand Remakel was approached. It was rude and offensive.

Who would have thought at the time that it was someone else using the name - the real one called the police which is fair enough if not knowing anything about it all - I wonder if he knew his wife had the affair / she looked quite sheepish

 

[KathPlumber]

No I was just saying there are lots more info that others have found prior to save you hunting

Oh yeah, I wasn’t hunting, just reading the Brabant killers Wikipedia page and scaring the living daylights out of myself.

 

[hoodunnit]

Who would have thought at the time that it was someone else using the name - the real one called the police which is fair enough if not knowing anything about it all - I wonder if he knew his wife had the affair / she looked quite sheepish

Just FYI, if you're referring the the lady stood next to FR in the video clip, this is not MC, this is his current wife.

 

[Martinie]

I think it was.
Marion's friend described her as reserved repeatedly. I would also interpret this as her being a private person. Not one to rock up to a bank with a flower behind her ear announcing that she was going to Bali to "loose herself". Telling all in sundry that she was "starting a new life and wanted her whereabouts to be unknown " It would laughable if it wasn't so awful

I find it strange that "she" even gave that info out while going to the bank... What a weird thing to say when you're trying to start a new life and don't want family to know anything. I fully believe that DDh was involved.

 

[MrPickles]

I find it strange that "she" even gave that info out while going to the bank... What a weird thing to say when you're trying to start a new life and don't want family to know anything. I fully believe that DDh was involved.

It’s highly suspicious to me that MB flew into Brisbane on 02/08/97 (I do believe it was MB)
Medicare card used on 13/08/97 (Grafton is 4 hours from Brisbane) - First bank withdrawal (confirmed by SL last night on Spotlight) was not until 15/08/97.

Why wait nearly 2 weeks to make her first withdrawal?

Why not at a CBA in Brisbane within days of her arrival? Why withdraw money 2 hours drive from her arrival destination when she stated she was staying at the Novotel, Brisbane?
Passenger card states she was only returning for 8 days.

I do not believe it was MB withdrawing the money. I sadly suspect foul play prior to 15/08 - Whether intentional or accidental. Around the time a certain vehicle was purchased. Around the time of non attendance at a swimming carnival.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

DBM

 

[gymtonic]

. It still never sits well with me how that bank teller gave such specific evidence at the previous inquest. The link to Bali seems to fit, but most Aussies have been to Bali, it’s a close and cheap holiday from most parts of Australia.

Neatly summed up..and let’s not forget the Bank Teller’s very specific evidence was off by one year when she locked it in to Silverchair being on the gig list at Homebake in BB…..which we know was 1996 and not 1997!

 

[Kie22]

It’s highly suspicious to me that MB flew into Brisbane on 02/08/97 (I do believe it was MB)
Medicare card used on 13/08/97 - First bank withdrawal (confirmed by SL last night on Spotlight) was not until 15/08/97.

Why wait nearly 2 weeks to make her first withdrawal?

Why not at a CBA in Brisbane within days of her arrival?

Passenger card states she was only returning for 8 days.

I do not believe it was MB withdrawing the money. I sadly suspect foul play prior to 15/08 - Whether intentional or accidental. Around the time a certain vehicle was purchased. Around the time of non attendance at a swimming carnival.

Agree. Have any photos of Marion been put out with different hair colour/styles in case it jogs anyone's memory of seeing her after she returned and during this time? She might have changed her appearance while away under instructions from her travel companion. New husband, new name, new look...
Princess Diana's hair style was popular at the time I seem to remember - in the UK at least, not sure about Australia.

 

[mishy66]

I know I have posted about "some" of this before but I see the FB page has shown the IK file - this was the one J was mentioning when she went to PROV a few months before on a post November 2022, when they visited IK gravesite.

Way back at the beginning of 2022 I came across a file on the death of IK in the public arena on PROV. - this is the link

I sat on it for months because I wasn't sure if I could post it all up given the inquest.

I shared it with another sleuth at the time at the start of 2022, who then posted it on the forum in her timeline which was really unfair and very unfortunate. It was taken down at my request.

When I visited IK gravesite it was just as MB FB page stated - no mark, no headstone, nothing. I posted all of this in a previous page if you do a search. The images shown on the MB page back in Nov 2022 shows the grave behind IK looking different to the image I took in Jan 2023 because the grave behind now has a wooden structure there.

In that file I found back in early 2022, it showed all the documentation of her death and coroner's report.

Born 11 May 1946
Death 13 July 1977

From her report I can see she had only seen her Jewish doctor a few days before, on the 7 July for tonsillitis. It was midweek when she died and after work at Beales Hairdressers in Hawthorn. But instead of heading toward Dingley where she lived at the time, she was headed toward Elwood, where her Drs surgery was a few minutes away, or maybe she was going to her friends who also lived at Elwood..

She was found slumped over the steering wheel on the cnr of Brighton and Chapel St Kilda.


Husband of deceased attends hospital and informed of the death. ( this is all typed so it would have been a verbal correspondence) - what husband attended?? MJR or AH


Autopsy report - 14 July - no marks of violence, marked scoliosis of the theoretic spine (as also stated per her entry form into Aust 1969), with "gruel like " material in stomach, all organs, heart etc were normal.
Cause of death Mycocardial Ischemia


July 14 - IK friend of 2 years, Albert, formally ID's the body. - not sure I can post his full name on here.

WHERE IS "MJR" if he was the one who informed the hospital of details....


The coroner ordered the burial of the body without inquest.

Buried 18 July 1977


Then after a long drawn out process involving an internal investigation it was found that work back log and understaffing resulted in IK toxicology results not being processed until nearly a year later - April 1978 - too late to show anything perhaps!
There was a OH&S compensation claim was put forward for her children via a lawyer during this time.
WHO is claiming for the dependents???


So much correspondence between departments and lawyers over nearly a year for this case!!! It is appalling!

And then we have her death cert - the details of which can be done by any family member - as was shown in the Walkers death certs.

It states she did Home Duties but she worked at Beales since 1974

( 10 May 1969 marries AH - the day before her 23rd birthday - 12 days prior to departing Australia) - probably convinced by AH to run away together to Australia to start a new life away from her family.

She then married MJR in December 1971 in Budapest, then comes back out to Australia with her children - death cert says for this marriage she was 23 - (cant be 23 marrying MJR in 1971 and 23 in 1969 marrying AH)

It states she had been in Australia for 2 years = 1975 - yet she was working for Beales since 1974.

I found 3 Reids coming out in 1973 on NAA - not sure if this is them but fits the timing

There is a lot of info found all relating to this and the people. I just don't know if I can post it all up.


This beautiful young woman never stood a chance.

HOW many more Ilona's and Marion's are there out there!!

 

[mishy66]

I sadly suspect foul play prior to 15/08 - Whether intentional or accidental. Around the time a certain vehicle was purchased. Around the time of non attendance at a swimming carnival.

The swimming carnival he didn't attend was 21 September

 

[MrPickles]

I know I have posted about "some" of this before but I see the FB page has shown the IK file - this was the one J was mentioning when she went to PROV a few months before on a post November 2022, when they visited IK gravesite.

Way back at the beginning of 2022 I came across a file on the death of IK in the public arena on PROV. - this is the link

I sat on it for months because I wasn't sure if I could post it all up given the inquest.

I shared it with another sleuth at the time at the start of 2022, who then posted it on the forum in her timeline which was really unfair and very unfortunate. It was taken down at my request.

When I visited IK gravesite it was just as MB FB page stated - no mark, no headstone, nothing. I posted all of this in a previous page if you do a search. The images shown on the MB page back in Nov 2022 shows the grave behind IK looking different to the image I took in Jan 2023 because the grave behind now has a wooden structure there.

In that file I found back in early 2022, it showed all the documentation of her death and coroner's report.

Born 11 May 1946
Death 13 July 1977

From her report I can see she had only seen her Jewish doctor a few days before, on the 7 July for tonsillitis. It was midweek when she died and after work at Beales Hairdressers in Hawthorn. But instead of heading toward Dingley where she lived at the time, she was headed toward Elwood, where her Drs surgery was a few minutes away, or maybe she was going to her friends who also lived at Elwood..

She was found slumped over the steering wheel on the cnr of Brighton and Chapel St Kilda.


Husband of deceased attends hospital and informed of the death. ( this is all typed so it would have been a verbal correspondence) - what husband attended?? MJR or AH


Autopsy report - 14 July - no marks of violence, marked scoliosis of the theoretic spine (as also stated per her entry form into Aust 1969), with "gruel like " material in stomach, all organs, heart etc were normal.
Cause of death Mycocardial Ischemia


July 14 - IK friend of 2 years, Albert, formally ID's the body. - not sure I can post his full name on here.

WHERE IS "MJR" if he was the one who informed the hospital of details....


The coroner ordered the burial of the body without inquest.

Buried 18 July 1977


Then after a long drawn out process involving an internal investigation it was found that work back log and understaffing resulted in IK toxicology results not being processed until nearly a year later - April 1978 - too late to show anything perhaps!
There was a OH&S compensation claim was put forward for her children via a lawyer during this time.
WHO is claiming for the dependents???


So much correspondence between departments and lawyers over nearly a year for this case!!! It is appalling!

And then we have her death cert - the details of which can be done by any family member - as was shown in the Walkers death certs.

It states she did Home Duties but she worked at Beales since 1974

( 10 May 1969 marries AH - the day before her 23rd birthday - 12 days prior to departing Australia) - probably convinced by AH to run away together to Australia to start a new life away from her family.

She then married MJR in December 1971 in Budapest, then comes back out to Australia with her children - death cert says for this marriage she was 23 - (cant be 23 marrying MJR in 1971 and 23 in 1969 marrying AH)

It states she had been in Australia for 2 years = 1975 - yet she was working for Beales since 1974.

I found 3 Reids coming out in 1973 on NAA - not sure if this is them but fits the timing

There is a lot of info found all relating to this and the people. I just don't know if I can post it all up.


This beautiful young woman never stood a chance.

HOW many more Ilona's and Marion's are there out there!!

Outstanding research, Mishy! Just a heartbreaking read. That compensation claim reeks foul of AKA’s stench.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

From MB FB page
"""On 2nd June, a high performance cash account is opened in which cash from the sale of her home is placed.
The question is, if she was planning to withdraw or transfer this significant sum only four months later on October 15th why bother to open such an account in the first place ?
The bank manager of the Ashmore branch, David Martin, stated in his evidence that a maximum of $5k could be withdrawn from this type of account daily and it was a far more restrictive account that the daily all-in-one account. Why did Marion place this large sum of money into such an account ?
The bank account was under the same member number as her other accounts, but it is interesting that she didn't change her accounts to her new identity".

Thank you!

 

[MrPickles]

The swimming carnival he didn't attend was 21 September

It seems to have been a busy 9 weeks for AKA between the first withdrawal to the final transfer and the opening of his safety deposit box (can’t think what it was called? The well described envelope thingy)

Did MB ever check in at the Novotel? If so I’d love to know who checked her out?

It makes me so cross that nothing was done when SL reported her missing. So much evidence lost forever.

And who made that call to SL stating her mother was safe and didn’t want to be contacted? It obviously wasn’t GC after listening to SL and LB last night. It was suggested the call was made to get SL off the trail of searching for her Mum. Unless GC called SL after receiving a call from a woman who was clearly not MB.

 

[Martinie]

The link for the show is on the MPMB Fb page for those wanting to watch

 

[Oodlesofnoodles]

There was one thing that I'm still confused about from spotlight last night. Why did they do the re-enactment when half of what happened they didn't show last night. Sally has said multiple times before she went up to her mum and said busted or something along the lines of that but it wasn't included last night.

 

[Jennyw12000]

Yeah she withheld a lot IMO and you are correct, her recollections are incorrect.

Its always going to be a stalemate with those two.
This is her get square limelight and he can do FA about it because in doing so will incriminate him...and her...further and she knows it. And on her side, the real FR is never going to talk.

Something about the real FR and MC back in the day that will never see the light of day IMO

Also, didn’t Mr B mention in the latest segment of the inquest that she wouldn’t sign an affidavit because she was lying?