Broken once or twice?

[narlacat]

Thanks Shiloh.

Why would the R's cover up the death of their daughter for these people you mention, disgruntled employees etc?

 

[shiloh]

Thanks Shiloh.

Why would the R's cover up the death of their daughter for these people you mention, disgruntled employees etc?

I don't believe they have been covering up for anyone.

In trying to recall what I did today, I can tell you what I have done, but I certainly wouldn't be able to recall accurately the order in which I had done many things. I honestly don't know whether I came into this room first, or fed the cat, or went out and got the paper, or whether I had opened this drawer or turned on that light or whether that light was already on. And then if I were to give a statement, and then remember more later about it, or if it had been understood incorrectly by the person taking the statement, it could be construed that I had been lying or am involved in a coverup.

And as far as the pineapple and other items on the table, I believe that these were very shrewd intruders who had set that up so that it would be obvious to the police that the Ramseys were lying about the events of the previous night. And yes, I do feel that she was force fed pineapple, but probably down in the basement. Call me gullible.

This scenario explains all the evidence. But a coverup for Burke or a JDI or PDI theory does not adequately explain the gun fire at Detective Whitson's residence and the other attacks.

Flame away.

 

[narlacat]

No flame.

I wouldn't put all those little incidents past SS lol

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Holdontoyourhat,

I agree there had to be a reason for BOTH ends of the paintbrush handle to be broken or whittled off. The first break, of course, was to remove the bristled part of the paintbrush from the wooden handle. The missing other end is what bothers me.

BlueCrab

I disagree. Your idea is that the bristled end was undesireable for some reason, and needed to be removed, while the opposite end was removed because it was desirable.

Its likely the bristled end was removed to produce a sharp end to the weapon. Its likely the opposite end was removed for the same purpose. This is the most likely scenario.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I don't believe they have been covering up for anyone.

In trying to recall what I did today, I can tell you what I have done, but I certainly wouldn't be able to recall accurately the order in which I had done many things. I honestly don't know whether I came into this room first, or fed the cat, or went out and got the paper, or whether I had opened this drawer or turned on that light or whether that light was already on. And then if I were to give a statement, and then remember more later about it, or if it had been understood incorrectly by the person taking the statement, it could be construed that I had been lying or am involved in a coverup.

And as far as the pineapple and other items on the table, I believe that these were very shrewd intruders who had set that up so that it would be obvious to the police that the Ramseys were lying about the events of the previous night. And yes, I do feel that she was force fed pineapple, but probably down in the basement. Call me gullible.

This scenario explains all the evidence. But a coverup for Burke or a JDI or PDI theory does not adequately explain the gun fire at Detective Whitson's residence and the other attacks.

Flame away.

The R's not covering up is correct. Very shrewd intruders is IMO correct. Pineapple in the basement, also IMO correct. You seem to have many of the answers, Shiloh.

 

[shiloh]

The R's not covering up is correct. Very shrewd intruders is IMO correct. Pineapple in the basement, also IMO correct. You seem to have many of the answers, Shiloh.

Maybe shiloh and HOTYH did it. How else would they know so much about what had actually happened? I'm adding them both to my suspect list this very moment.

Honestly, I am astounded that I am in agreement with you about anything. I'm going to have to go back and read your posts. And, you still haven't posted your theory on the theory thread.

 

[tumble]

Maybe the stick broke by accident.

Suppose the perp just grabbed a paintbrush and tied the end of the cord to the middle of it.

When the perp then applied full force to it it broke.

After this first try the perp tied a better "broader" knot by winding some extra cord on one of the parts of the stick distributing the force.

If he/she removed a broken part it could be because he/she didn't want to display the failed attempt.

One end of the stick indicates a recent break whereas the other end seem older, could be a break(or maybe not a break at all...) from a previous occation.

 

[BBB167893]

"This scenario explains all the evidence. But a coverup for Burke or a JDI or PDI theory does not adequately explain the gun fire at Detective Whitson's residence and the other attacks."

If they were related. We can't be sure, can we? Lots of people have guns. I know I do. And it's actually quite easy to convert a gun to fire full-auto. Could be a wild goose chase. Then again, could be something more sinister than that.

We honestly don't know if the brush was broken twice that night. Patsy SAID her brushes were all fairly new, but she SAID a lot of things, if you get my meaning.

 

[Rupert]

My take on the question posed by Holdontoyourhat was whether or not the perp quickly broke the paint brush once with both hands (perhaps a quick staging) and the thumbs caused it to break into 3 parts, or did the perp concienciously first break one end and then the other to get the 3 pieces (more like premeditated preparations).

Try breaking a paintbrush all at once with your two hands. Usually the wood is dry and older and will break like spaghetti in 3 pieces. I don't see evidence that the paint brush was cut by a knife in the first place and the coroner did not mention that. I'm sure he would have put that in the official reoport if it had indeed been cut. - Sounds like sloppy staging to me.

The brush part is in the tote, so the other end which is missing might have been used in the vaginal insertion.

Why would a perp not take the brush part as well for a souvenir? - Again, sounds like sloppy staging to me (except for the fact that there are no fingerprints).

Do you see any other broken paint brush ends in that tote bag?

 

[Seeker]

Toltec: I agree. And I think that would be especially difficult for a scrawny 9-yr-old.

Seeker: Here's a better photo. http://www.acandyrose.com/179paint-tote.jpg

Thanks shilo, although it doesn't look broken either. There is brush exactly like that style, only white handled, that is not broken either. They are just short handled.

 

[shiloh]

Why would a perp not take the brush part as well for a souvenir? - Again, sounds like sloppy staging to me (except for the fact that there are no fingerprints).

Do you see any other broken paint brush ends in that tote bag?

Hi Rupert. People who murder will often take something from the crime scene as a momento or souvenir (often called trophies) which they use to relive the event over and over in their minds.

I don't see any other broken paint brushes. It certainly doesn't look like they match, since they are different colors. I assume the ends of the two pieces match, since the blue brush in the paint tote has always been the one that has been pointed out as the one that was used to make the garrote, which is why the idea of it having been whittled seems likely, although that also is unclear (to me at least) from just the single photo.

HOTYH: Is it your opinion that the garrote stick had been whittled?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

If I wanted to modify a paintbrush into a medieval weapon, with sharp points on the ends to repel attempts to dislodge it from my hands, I wouldn't break it. I'd whittle it.

Breaking goes with the grain, which is unpredictable. Most here seem to have only seen the one photo of the paintbrush, but there are more photos, that show the paintbrush with both its sharpened ends. Since the sharpened ends don't seem to go with the grain, I'd say it was whittled.

 

[shiloh]

If I wanted to modify a paintbrush into a medieval weapon, with sharp points on the ends to repel attempts to dislodge it from my hands, I wouldn't break it. I'd whittle it.

Breaking goes with the grain, which is unpredictable. Most here seem to have only seen the one photo of the paintbrush, but there are more photos, that show the paintbrush with both its sharpened ends. Since the sharpened ends don't seem to go with the grain, I'd say it was whittled.

Do you have a link to a site where clearer photos are available? Or is this just something you have seen in the past?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Do you have a link to a site where clearer photos are available? Or is this just something you have seen in the past?

Here's the photo we've all seen:

http://www.acandyrose.com/garrote3.jpg

Here's the opposite side of the paintbrush:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/5a.jpghttp://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/it_5.html

The opposite end is worked, but it doesn't seem to be as sharp in this photo. Its safe to assume the perp intended the paintbrush to be used as a combination weapon, due to the fact that the ends weren't just fabricated, they were fabricated sharp.

 

[Rupert]

Here's the photo we've all seen:

http://www.acandyrose.com/garrote3.jpg

Here's the opposite side of the paintbrush:

http://www.crimelibrary.com/graphics/photos/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/5a.jpg

The opposite end is worked, but it doesn't seem to be as sharp in this photo. Its safe to assume the perp intended the paintbrush to be used as a combination weapon, due to the fact that the ends weren't just fabricated, they were fabricated sharp.

Looks like a dry old paint brush handle that snapped easily when broken during a sloppy staging. One of those things that make me slide off the fence into the no intruder yard. Beleive me, I've tried hard to find an intruder.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Looks like a dry old paint brush handle that snapped easily when broken during a sloppy staging. One of those things that make me slide off the fence into the no intruder yard. Beleive me, I've tried hard to find an intruder.

A sloppy staging, huh? Why did the sloppy stager break the handle? To make it more suitable or more manageable? To make it more foreign-faction weapon-like?

What really happened: The intruder used the sharp garrote handle as an additional weapon, to further threaten and control JBR. In fact, the modified paintbrush and both ligatures worked together as an elaborate weapon.

If it was staging, why would the ligatures have all the right knots in all the right places? Why would this elaborate combination weapon, obviously capable of restraining, quiet control, coersion, and even murder, not be given any role in a murder where the victim was obviously restrained, kept quiet, coerced, and murdered?

If there was staging, it didn't involve the garrote or second ligature because they were fully functional and the crime scene photos prove it.

The sloppy staging idea is ruled out.

 

[UKGuy]

A sloppy staging, huh? Why did the sloppy stager break the handle? To make it more suitable or more manageable? To make it more foreign-faction weapon-like?

What really happened: The intruder used the sharp garrote handle as an additional weapon, to further threaten and control JBR. In fact, the modified paintbrush and both ligatures worked together as an elaborate weapon.

If it was staging, why would the ligatures have all the right knots in all the right places? Why would this elaborate combination weapon, obviously capable of restraining, quiet control, coersion, and even murder, not be given any role in a murder where the victim was obviously restrained, kept quiet, coerced, and murdered?

If there was staging, it didn't involve the garrote or second ligature because they were fully functional and the crime scene photos prove it.

The sloppy staging idea is ruled out.

Holdontoyourhat,

You are at liberty to rule out the sloppy staging, but that does not mean other people share your flawed reasoning.

Just saying something is so, dont make it so.

What really happened: The intruder used the sharp garrote handle as an additional weapon, to further threaten and control JBR. In fact, the modified paintbrush and both ligatures worked together as an elaborate weapon.

You were present, you are recounting from experience? I find your reasoning sloppy.

JonBenet may have been dead when the garrote/stick was applied, she may have been unsconcious due to a haead bash, one thing is certain, no intruder needed to while away some time in the Ramsey basement whittling wood to create an additional weapon. JonBenet was a 6-year old girl, she would have been easy for any adult intruder to control!

.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You were present, you are recounting from experience? I find your reasoning sloppy.


.

:dance:

The combination weapon used on JBR incorporated the second ligature. That wouldn't be so obvious if it were found tight on her wrists. I'm not sure how anyone can write it off as window dressing, with all those knots and loops in all the right places.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

JonBenet may have been dead when the garrote/stick was applied,...

.

Please explain the hemmorhage that starts from the cord, if she were dead at the time?

I mean, wouldn't that be totally unprecedented in crime? Placing a garrote over a dead person? That idea seems very remote.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Please explain, using vastly superior reasoning abilities, the hemmorhage that starts from the cord, if she were dead at the time?

I mean, wouldn't that be totally unprecedented in crime? Placing a garrote over a dead person? That idea is way out in left field.

The idea that a foreign faction broke in and assaulted JonBenet in her own home and used items from the house to kill her and then write a ransom note but not bother to take the person they are ransoming with them is way out in left field.

Are you saying there have been no other crimes in history involving parties trying to cover up an accidental death? There are possibly no other crimes concerning a dead girl with a garotte, but that doesn't mean there isn't a first time.

Consider this...one of her parents grabs her by the collar, and choking her, strikes her on the head out of rage, hears the sickening sound of her skull fracturing, sees her appearing lifeless as she slips into a coma, and panics, thinking I need to make this look like anything other than what happened since I'm too soft and pretty and rich to go to prison. Then they draw upon their knowledge of crime to construct a fake intruder scene, one element of which is attempting to fashion a garotte to throw cops off their trail (because no one expects a parent to use one of those). It also serves to try to cover up any evidence of choking before the head wound. It just so happens that poor baby JonBenet wasn't fully dead like she looked when the cord was set in place around her neck.