CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[samevo8]

Where's the reference that she didn't have any clothes on?

I am confident we can rule out suicide or accidental death. None of it adds up. All other cases of bodies being found in water tanks that I have seen discussed were murders. Also she didn't have any clothes on which would point to a sexual crime or at least an attempted one.

 

[necco]

At the risk of sounding gross, if there is a perp and it is someone connected to the building, I heavily lean towards staff or short term guest. I feel pretty confident in asserting that 99.44 % of murdering scumbags wouldn't want to shower in their victim's remains.

 

[CuriousB]

I pored through much of the nouvelle-nouveau tumblr and it really saddened me. It saddens me because I have a friend who I believe has similar issues (though not as serious) and I really don't know what we can as friends, family members, fellow members of society do to help people who have problems. It's tragic to see the conflict between her need to be an adult and her inability to thrive in her path in life. I kept thinking her family shouldn't have let her travel alone, but at that point in one's life your family can only give advice, not impose rules. I can't imagine how devastated they are right now.

Seems her troubles started when she was 17:
2012 Oct 27: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/34373601000/thank-you-to-the-wonderful-tumblrs-i-follow-and
"I can safely say and with absolute certitude that I found myself again. I lost myself at 17 and after 4 years of pain, loneliness, directionless wandering, I am me again. I feel my heart and brain working together again and for the last 4 years they were working against each other that drove me to insanity."
(Note in the context of the entire tumblr page, it's clear that her problems were not solved by October.)

All the interventions (pills, group therapy, treatment centres) probably started in May 2012.
May 3: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/22304102762/more-its-still-odd-to-me-that-people-are-so

The ups and downs might have gotten more extreme in the Fall. Worry of a breakdown, anxiety on bus:
Sept 29: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/32502296081/still-in-a-i-hate-the-world-i-hate-people-mood-i

Broke up with boyfriend near the end of the year:
Dec 27: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/38937716004/more-im-full-of-um-emotions-not-bad

Her birthday was around beginning of May, end of April:
May 1: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/22143077845/cest-my-birthday-im-getting-too-old-to-be

Her grandmother had a stroke last March. Her grandfather had previously passed away with her holding his hands:
Apr 10: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/20809783201/harbinger

Problems relating with her family and relatives:
Sept 30: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/32561207307/more-my-mom-asks-me-if-i-really-hate-my
Nov 4: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/34968445813/im-stressed-and-also-not-eating-properly-that-my


She spent two years trying to make University "work" but it never did. She was taking a year off at the time.
June 15: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/25115918209/i-just-dont-know-what-to-do-about-school
June 17: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/25262168105/soo-more-i-chickened-out-of-going-and
Jul 8: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/26746692373/its-been-a-bad-week-not-caring-anymore-ignoring
Aug 10: http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/29109329166/more-on-school-i-am-fairly-certain-i-am

-----

I think the entry that shook me the most was the one talking about her grandfather (Oct 27 and Apr 10). I think they were really close and I think his death really affected her. In fact, after reading the Apr 10 entry, I thought that her gesturing outside the elevator might be what she remembered about the last moments with her grandfather: greeting and touching his face, unwrapping some presents or flowers, then holding his hands as he slipped away.

Anyway, I think the elevator footage shows that she went off the deep end, but I do think it was somebody else who took advantage of the situation and caused her death. If as the ex-security guy who posted the multi-floor tour video of the hotel said, there are many security cameras but they don't work, then I think Cecil Hotel needs to have its guests sign waivers for more than just its water.

 

[samevo8]

Has anyone found any statements from Elisa Lam's family or friends (Facebook postings, etc.) that explain why she went down to California (SD, LA, then a planned trip to SC), other than holiday? I know that she went to Toronto in December 2012 on her own and stayed at a hostel so her travelling solo to California would be consistent with how she seems to travel (ie: solo.)

However, I was wondering if she may have been on a trip to meet someone?

I read that she was updating her Facebook page with her vacation photos/status (I believe she posted some pics of her at Sea World in SD) and she was calling her family nightly. If she were planning on meeting up with some someone(s), it may be noted in those postings/conversations.

 

[Buckeye lady]

I am confident we can rule out suicide or accidental death. None of it adds up. All other cases of bodies being found in water tanks that I have seen discussed were murders. Also she didn't have any clothes on which would point to a sexual crime or at least an attempted one.

If she was depressed and suicidal she could have just jumped off the roof. If she was psychotic, drugged, or in some sort of troubled state I believe it would have been very difficult for her to get access to the roof alone and be aware that the water tanks were indeed just that and then climb in. Just a huge stretch for me.

This was her first stay at the hotel. She would have needed an employee to open the door to the roof or have an employee/long time guest show her another way to the roof. Someone helped her up there, forced her up there, or took her up there. She was not alone on the roof.

Wonder what the circumstances were when a friend said she had disappeared before? This is probably crazy but what if she was wandering around for a few days and they wouldn't let her in at the front desk because her Id was in the room? She might have tried to get in from the fire escape and ran into some unsavory character on the way up.

 

[ThinkHard]

At the risk of sounding gross, if there is a perp and it is someone connected to the building, I heavily lean towards staff or short term guest. I feel pretty confident in asserting that 99.44 % of murdering scumbags wouldn't want to shower in their victim's remains.

Necco that made me wonder something. There were 4 tanks on top of that building right?

Are all of the tanks piped to service the entire building? Or similar to circuit breakers in a house, where each breaker is wired to a specific area of the house, could each of those tanks be piped to service particular areas or floors of the hotel?

I could see the water tanks on a building working either way. I'm curious as to how these particicular water tanks functioned. If the perp also lived in the building, would he have a way of knowing which tank supplied the water to his room, bathroom area? Could the tank that was chosen be an intentional pick for the very reason it serviced a part of the hotel other then where he resided?

 

[CuriousB]

At the risk of sounding gross, if there is a perp and it is someone connected to the building, I heavily lean towards staff or short term guest. I feel pretty confident in asserting that 99.44 % of murdering scumbags wouldn't want to shower in their victim's remains.

Actually, I can think of at least a couple of sickos who did more than that. That is, assuming that eating something is "more than" showering oneself with something...

 

[mj12]

I am confident we can rule out suicide or accidental death. None of it adds up. All other cases of bodies being found in water tanks that I have seen discussed were murders. Also she didn't have any clothes on which would point to a sexual crime or at least an attempted one.

I said in the previous thread, but only one source ran with this story. Law enforcement, the hotel and the major news channels have not gone with this.

Taken from post 1010 in previous thread:

http://www.examiner.com/article/naked-body-of-missing-canadian-tourist-found-hotel-water-tank-video

As you can see, there is no direct quotes from LAPD or anyone saying the body had no clothes.

 

[kingsway]

Check everyone who was carrying bottled water on the 1st.

 

[ThinkHard]

Wonder what the circumstances were when a friend said she had disappeared before? This is probably crazy but what if she was wandering around for a few days and they wouldn't let her in at the front desk because her Id was in the room? She might have tried to get in from the fire escape and ran into some unsavory character on the way up.

People with bipolar disorder when having a manic episode do not just go wandering around aimlessly for days on city streets.

Sometimes they leave, but it is with a purpose. In college I had lunch plans with a friend, she missed them, and I couldn't get through to her, when she finally called me back it was to say she had gotten on a plane to go visit an aunt in Florida for a few days. Just spontaneously decided to go, gt herself to an airport, purchased ticket, and boarded plane. In her hippo mania this spontaneous idea made perfect sense to her.

My point is when they leave its with purpose, they don't just get confused and wander around a city for days. It's a hyper focused, hyper spontaneous, state, not a confused and forgetful one.

 

[PopeReal]

I said in the previous thread, but only one source ran with this story. Law enforcement, the hotel and the major news channels have not gone with this.

Taken from post 1010 in previous thread:

http://www.examiner.com/article/naked-body-of-missing-canadian-tourist-found-hotel-water-tank-video

As you can see, there is no direct quotes from LAPD or anyone saying the body had no clothes.

Ok for now remove that as fact since no one else is reporting it. That does reduce the chances of a sexual crime.

I still don't think she got up to that roof alone. The door was locked, even if the alarm wasn't working (and the hotel claims it was working). She would need an employee's key to get through that door.

I would think the fire escapes might be connected to an alarm as well, but since it is kind of a cheap hotel maybe not. But still access to the roof that way seems difficult for her to manage alone. She probably wouldn't have knowledge that access to the roof was even possible at all without someone showing her. Depressed, manic, scared, drugged, (or completely fine), her ending up on the roof took some effort. And I believe that effort required help.

 

[necco]

Actually, I can think of at least a couple of sickos who did more than that. That is, assuming that eating something is "more than" showering oneself with something...

CuriousB, that would be why I didn't say 100% and why I said "leaning toward" One has to account for the outliers to the outliers.

 

[ThinkHard]

I think LE should be focusing on long time residents, on high floors, with direct access to the fire escape from their room, and who have a criminal history. They should also focus on any security guards who had been their a while, worked the graveyard shift that night, and has a criminal record.

 

[Sillybilly]

Ok, but still the initial autopsy would have been able to reveal that the cause (not manner) of death was drowning if she had entered that tank alive. And as far as we know it did not.

She would have had water in her lungs whether she went in alive, deceased, whether she drowned or died in some other fashion, simply as a result of being in the tank for as long as she was. So, no ... the initial autopsy would not necessary have been able to determine COD one way or another.

JMO

 

[mollymae]

Actually, I can think of at least a couple of sickos who did more than that. That is, assuming that eating something is "more than" showering oneself with something...

Agreed. I think there are plenty of sick perps who would get off on the idea of themselves or other people showering/drinking the remains of their victim. Plenty of people out there have some truly bizarre fetishes.

 

[fred&edna]

I said in the previous thread, but only one source ran with this story. Law enforcement, the hotel and the major news channels have not gone with this.

Taken from post 1010 in previous thread:

http://www.examiner.com/article/naked-body-of-missing-canadian-tourist-found-hotel-water-tank-video

As you can see, there is no direct quotes from LAPD or anyone saying the body had no clothes.

Even what I have is not a direct quote but an officer's name is mentioned. Also, when I try to obtain the archived version of the article it has been removed. ** never mind... it's there (oops!)


"LOS ANGELES (CBSLA.com) - 6 days ago

"....The body of a 20-something woman was discovered in a water tank on top of a downtown Los Angeles hotel Tuesday. Police and firefighters were summoned to the Cecil Hotel at 640 South Main St. shortly after 10 a.m.,
according to LAPD Officer Bruce Borihanh. KNX 1070s Claudia Peschiutta reports guests were disturbed to learn the nude body of the woman was found inside of one of four large water tanks. ...."


http://www.niuzer.com/Los-Angeles-C...ter-Tank-Atop-Downtown-LA-Hotel-16555391.html

 

[manlet]

An ex-security guard of the Hotel Cecil who worked the nightshift recorded this video back in 2010:
Cecil hotel tour - YouTube

His comments:

"The hotel doesn't really care when I recorded this video I was a security guard on the graveyard shift I saw few people jump from the building n dieing in a suspicious way..all I know is that in that hotel lost of crazy people go... is not what u see trust me I have proof of that...am lucky to be here "

"First and second floor have cameras but don't work..they never care about securing guest on that hotel .. I hope they find the person or reason oh n just to reming you guys is easy to by pass the roof exit ...I always had people go up by the emergency fire ladder to the roof.. :/"


Here's another video he had on his youtube of (I assume) the other elevator in the hotel with a ghost/orb floating in there:
GHOST CAPTURE on elevator - YouTube

Another comment he left an hour ago:
" MrSporty007 replied to a comment from bendietrees 1 hour ago

Floors 14,12,11,10,09,08 all use key tags with key like 1401,1402 ...07,06,05,04 are part of the stay and use key cards . They share same elevators and stay has there ow. Lobby but could still exit using Cecil hotel exit. Anyways stay is not open 24/7 they close at 8 so all guest from both are only aloud to use Cecil lobby to exit or entry..."

 

[OCSlacker]

On the previous thread, page 32 for me,Little Wing uploaded a photo of the water tanks with an arrow pointing to the tank directly in front of where EL was found. This tank had a ladder chained to it. It appears that this ladder was left chained to the water tank for convenience by maintenance. Now if none of the tanks had locks on the hatches, then why would someone choose a tank to hide the body that was less accessible? If by some slim chance she was there by herself and wanted access to the tank, why not just use the ladder and access the tank it is attached to? IMO, this is not a suicide but for arguments sake let say she did want to commit suicide or was just curious about the tanks.. doesn't matter which scenario, but if she placed herself in the tank, why wouldn't she choose a tank she can readily access and not one that is more difficult to reach?

Why would a person placing a dead body in a tank not choose a more readily available tank? Clearly one person, especially someone as small as EL could fit in the area to climb the ladder. The hatch is just to the left of the ladder, lift the hatch and jump in. But someone disposing of a body, might find this more difficult to maneuver. Not enough space to coordinate getting the body up the ladder? Looking for an area that is less accessible to others who may look on the roof?

Too many signs point away from her placing herself in that tank.

 

[SCHMAE]

Psychosis is a loss of contact with reality that usually includes:
False beliefs about what is taking place or who one is (delusions)
Seeing or hearing things that aren't there (hallucinations)
Psychotic symptoms may include:
Disorganized thought and speech
False beliefs that are not based in reality (delusions), especially unfounded fear or suspicion
Hearing, seeing, or feeling things that are not there (hallucinations)
Thoughts that "jump" between unrelated topics (disordered thinking)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002520/

eta..... NOT MANIA !

 

[Murakami]

Greetings, fellow sleuths!!

I'm new to this case, and a resident of L.A. Impressed at the volume of knowledge here, and, as always, am praying that LE reads through these pages for the endless amount of clues present here and things they could have overlooked. Here are a few things I've picked up.

- Elisa's Tumblr page is that of a truly intelligent, kind, creative, and artistic person. It is almost like a museum of her soul..everything on there (albeit the posts are not all hers), IS philosophical or artistic in some way. I was flabbergasted by the absence of ALL references towards mainstream trash/pop culture (she says she is humiliated K. Kardashian is a public figure)..everything had to do with art, philosophy, poetry, literature, and classical/jazz music. Clearly a delicate and artistic, tormented soul.

- I stopped at the Last Bookstore (the last public place she was known to be seen), on my way back from work yesterday. Great place - BTW. The area is seedy, yes..but I didn't find it as bad as other parts of the city, or half as bad as Harlem or SF's Tenderloin. There are quite a few hip places right there (Organic food stores, Starbucks, fashion shops..etc)

- RE: the elevator video. I've watched it many times and it seems quite obvious that she IS in fact communicating to somebody. I don't think she was high (possibly a bit tipsy), nor do I think she is in the least bit scared. Watch the very beginning, as she walks in: She lifts her hand HIGH, with an almost comic decisiveness, as in saying "Okayyyyy let's get this elevator game started!". That is not the body language of somebody who is freaking out - somebody who is freaking out would reach for the buttons as soon as they possibly could. Later on, with her hand motions, i think it's very very obvious she is talking to somebody..despite what we know about her history of meds, I highly doubt she would take any new kind of drug that would make her hallucinate this strongly. (We know from her Tumblr that she never even got drunk, I would like to think that this sense of caution accompanied her on her travels) Perhaps she is playing a game in half-jest, and half-fear with "Mr. Mexican and Mr. Italy".

- I think the strongest leads we have in this case is the Chinese article that reports she made a post on FB (?), about hoping that "When I go out tonight Mr. Mexican and Mr. Italy will leave me alone and not try to follow me" (Or something along those lines), and - as somebody stated - she makes MULTIPLE references in her Tumblr to "meet-up's" on her trip..with people she had never met before. I hope that all these people are being researched and tracked down.

- I personally rule out suicide. We know of her history of depression...but she was in the middle of an exciting trip, JUST having bought gifts and books for her family and anticipating her next big stop in Santa Cruz and SF. Highly unlikely to want to end your life right in the midst of so much activity - especially since she was actually doing something with her life, and in her Tumblr she keeps bringing back how she hates herself for staying in bed all day and night.

Finally, some questions I may have missed earlier:

Do we KNOW what time that video was taken? Was it confirmed to be the night of the 31st, after she went to the Last Bookstore?

Does anybody have a plan of where other camera are located in the hotel, or know of the possibility of other videos existing? Or are the only cameras in the elevator