Just saw the move and I agree with everything you said. There were 3 scenes where I had to look away and I'm pretty "tough" about that too. I think knowing that this actually happened made those scenes tough to swallow. Definitely worth the price of the ticket. After certain scenes I had to actually force myself to relax...the tension got pretty high. Angelia Jolie was outstanding!
CA CA - Wineville Chicken Coop Murders/Disappearances, 1928-1930
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Just saw the move and I agree with everything you said. There were 3 scenes where I had to look away and I'm pretty "tough" about that too. I think knowing that this actually happened made those scenes tough to swallow. Definitely worth the price of the ticket. After certain scenes I had to actually force myself to relax...the tension got pretty high. Angelia Jolie was outstanding!
One other thing...
I am not convinced that Walter was murdered by the perp. I would go into detail, but I don't want to ruin the movie for anyone else who may want to see it. According to the movie, though, there is a very good chance that he escaped...
I am not convinced that Walter was murdered by the perp. I would go into detail, but I don't want to ruin the movie for anyone else who may want to see it. According to the movie, though, there is a very good chance that he escaped...
If you read over at in cold blogger, it goes into detail about the movie. They say that there is very little fact in it. I'm not sure of the address but you can google the name I gave. I hope this is ok to tell people about this website having this information.
I did some investigating as well.... the movie is not exactly factual... and the family dynamic of the perpetrator is quite involved and sick. But, it also sheds light on the case in a more thorough and yet revolting way.
I do think Walter was murdered....after reading about the real case.....if you google some searches it may change your opinions.
Nonetheless - fantastic film
I saw the movie yesterday and, going by the accounts of the actual case that I've read online since, the movie seems to be essentially true.
Yes, some adjustments have been made for dramatic expediency, but they are relatively minor.
Some examples:
1. Northcott's parents are not characters in the film. He and Sandford Clark do all the killings themselves.
2. There is no mention of the beheaded body found along the side of the road.
3. Christine Collins claims her husband deserted her. According to what I've read, he was, in fact, serving a prison term for robbery.
Otherwise, the film tells the story pretty much the way it happened, which is why it doesn't have a "Hollywood" ending.
BTW: It's an excellent movie.
Yes, some adjustments have been made for dramatic expediency, but they are relatively minor.
Some examples:
1. Northcott's parents are not characters in the film. He and Sandford Clark do all the killings themselves.
2. There is no mention of the beheaded body found along the side of the road.
3. Christine Collins claims her husband deserted her. According to what I've read, he was, in fact, serving a prison term for robbery.
Otherwise, the film tells the story pretty much the way it happened, which is why it doesn't have a "Hollywood" ending.
BTW: It's an excellent movie.
shadowangel
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Those are some major changes to the facts---The original investigation centered around the father (Walter JS) being in prison. He (the father) wrote a letter to the LAPD stating that certain individuals he named had recently been released from prison and, due to his position in the prison as a trustee, they may have wanted to kidnap Walter as an act of revenge. LE actually tracked down several of those named and questioned them.
And as far as Gordon and Sanford comitting the killings--It was the mother who was convicted and sentenced to life in prison for the murder of Walter.
"Artistic license", I suppose....
I think based on a real event covers it... and the gaps between fact and fiction should not deter anyone who wants to see a compelling movie based on a true crime... or even a fictionalized account. It's very good... made me think and research!
I think it would have been fascinating to have the mother in there though... to see the two mothers face to face (someone like Kathy Bates or such) could have been great.
I think the whole story is so twisted etc that to chose enough to cover and do it right was probably the problem. If they'd covered it all the movie would not have seemed as cohesive.
I think the whole story is so twisted etc that to chose enough to cover and do it right was probably the problem. If they'd covered it all the movie would not have seemed as cohesive.
Remember that the movie is really Christine Collins' story and her battle with the LAPD. The Wineville ranch isn't even mentioned until about the halfway point.
Also, it's my understanding that the killer's mother later recanted her testimony that she killed Walter Collins.
According to William Goldman (BUTCH CASSIDY AND THE SUNDANCE KID, etc.), there is a basic principal in screenwriting: "Protect your story's spine at all costs."
I would assume that, in doing their research, the writer and producers decided that the facts left out were not essential to the basic throughline of the story.
Was Walter Collins taken as revenge against his imprisoned father? Probably not, so why even mention it?
Were the killer's parents actually involved in the murders? Perhaps, but by introducing them into the film you would be introducing a tangent that really has nothing to do with the main plot (i/e/ Christine Collins & the LAPD).
Bottom line: The film certainly captures the essence of the case.
If you want something more factual, you'd need to tell the story in a mini-series, which would give the writers more time to develop the omitted tangents, or you'd do a documentary.
I totally agree. If you want to tell the complete true story and do it right, then you need a multi-part mini-series, not a 2+ hour theatrical movie.
Remember the Kevin Costner movie, WYATT EARP?
That's a perfect example of what could have been a great western that failed because they tried to fit too much plot into a 2-3 hour movie.
They tried to tell Earp's complete life story, which was their big mistake. There was no time to develop characters or situations. It was very episodic.
Had they done it as a 4-8 hour mini-series, WYATT EARP would have become a classic.
Thankfully, Clint Eastwood did not make that same mistake with CHANGELING.
shadowangel
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I guess this is why I don't go to the movies.... :crazy:
Julessleuther
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Ok, I just saw this tonight, and it was much different than I thought it was going to be. First of all, it was very well written and directed, and Angelina was incredible in it. I really thought most of the story was going to be about her fight with the LAPD, but it really was so much more than that, and about 1/2 the movie was also about Northcutt, the ranch, and the trials and aftermath. It was an emotionally wrenching movie. I too, had to turn away at several points in the movie, I cried at several points, and my friend and I left the theatre literally shaking. Knowing that it was based on a true story really brought home to me all these cases that we see here on websleuths, and how much the individual families are effected by these situations. I am glad I saw the movie, but at the same time it was somewhat traumatizing.
DollyPardonMe
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It is still farmland. Would you believe the small house the Northcutts lived in is still standing as is one of the farmhouse's. I live 2 miles from Wineville Rd. The community used to be called Wineville but was changed to Mira Loma because of the monstous crimes that happened there. Our daily newspaper The Press Enterprise just had an article about Clint Eastwood being out here to see the house. I didnt know about any of this until I read the article. I'm going to go see the movie this weekend. I'm also going to go see if I can find the house and take pictures. Not that I'm gruesome or anything. Just a sleuth I guess. I also have pics of Nicole Simpsons front yard. Hey, maybe I am weird..
http://www.pe.com/localnews/riverside/stories/PE_News_Local_S_chicken31.38a6836.html
kitbits
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It is still farmland. Would you believe the small house the Northcutts lived in is still standing as is one of the farmhouse's. I live 2 miles from Wineville Rd. The community used to be called Wineville but was changed to Mira Loma because of the monstous crimes that happened there. Our daily newspaper The Press Enterprise just had an article about Clint Eastwood being out here to see the house. I didnt know about any of this until I read the article. I'm going to go see the movie this weekend. I'm also going to go see if I can find the house and take pictures. Not that I'm gruesome or anything. Just a sleuth I guess. I also have pics of Nicole Simpsons front yard. Hey, maybe I am weird..
http://www.pe.com/localnews/riverside/stories/PE_News_Local_S_chicken31.38a6836.html
nah, I wouldn't say weird...just uber curious!
I'm surprised they didn't tear down the place like they tore down Fred & Rosemary West's house in England. Imagine finding out the house you've lived in was the scene of such horrors...*shudders*
The film looks good! What a horrendous, nightmare story...
Trino
Well-Known Member
The film made me want to know more about the life of Collins. She surfaced as late as 1941, trying to collect a $15,562.00 judgment from retired LA J.J. Jones. The last record of her was in 1954 (see article below).
The 1920 Census, according to the artcile below, shows her living with her husband, Conrad J., a streetcar motorman, and 1-year-old Walter at 1110 2nd Ave., Venice. Voter registration for 1920 shows Christine and Conrad living at 112 Thornton Place, Venice. So, what happened to the father? There is no mention of him in any story re: Walter's disappearance. The movie suggests he bailed, but wouldn't you think he would be in the picture if his son was missing?
This is a great link to info...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedailymirror/changeling/index.html
The 1920 Census, according to the artcile below, shows her living with her husband, Conrad J., a streetcar motorman, and 1-year-old Walter at 1110 2nd Ave., Venice. Voter registration for 1920 shows Christine and Conrad living at 112 Thornton Place, Venice. So, what happened to the father? There is no mention of him in any story re: Walter's disappearance. The movie suggests he bailed, but wouldn't you think he would be in the picture if his son was missing?
This is a great link to info...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/thedailymirror/changeling/index.html
the house is still there, very large 2 story ranch house, I'm sure it has been updated or completely re-built over the years. It sits alone at the end of a 100 yard driveway surrounded by 25 acres of nothing but dirt fields. If I'm remembering right, it used to be a large horse breeding farm (I think). It can be seen from the 15 freeway.
Trino
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Christine Collins pic... scroll down
http://www.insidesocal.com/mt/mt-search.cgi?tag=wineville&blog_id=165
The photo seems correct, but the accompanying article that says she died in 1996 is not correct, according to most records.
http://www.insidesocal.com/mt/mt-search.cgi?tag=wineville&blog_id=165
The photo seems correct, but the accompanying article that says she died in 1996 is not correct, according to most records.