CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

[libyana]

Trophy! thats the word I was looking for. My gut tells me these guys have nothing to do with this and that the perp was working alone.
I am beginning to think about a different timeline though that would put AG in the garage maybe earlier after a trip of some sort.

 

[Woodland]

Puppyraiser - can I bother you to clarify your last post? I can't tell if monkeys4ever are men or women as both genders are mentioned.

My dilemma in predicting the age of an unknown perp is Picton was over 50 when finally caught and Olsen was 40ish. Both were very crafty and prolific killers that stayed under the radar for a long time, with an estimated 65 victims between the two of them.

Jmo.

 

[puppyraiser]

Puppyraiser - can I bother you to clarify your last post? I can't tell if monkeys4ever are men or women as both genders are mentioned.

My dilemma in predicting the age of an unknown perp is Picton was over 50 when finally caught and Olsen was 40ish. Both were very crafty and prolific killers that stayed under the radar for a long time, with an estimated 65 victims between the two of them.

Jmo.

I would say after looking through many of their photos they are a retired (male/female) couple who cache with at least one older/retired female.

 

[puppyraiser]

Sometimes a large city will have a thousand caches with many of them hidden just on the outskirts. Lots of caches are hidden out on country roads, in conservation areas, on crown land etc and waymarks are usually points of interests in certain locations that locals know about and want to share with others.

Could someone with ulterior motives try to lure an unsuspecting person to these areas? Sure........ but one never knows if a single cacher, a group of cachers, cachers with dogs or a specifically targeted age range is going to show up or when the next search at that location may occur.

Just wondering if you actually think a Geocacher might be responsible or if you are entertaining other possibilities?

 

[Woodland]

Speaking for myself, my thinking goes with odds, probabilities, logic and coincidence. I'm open to all probabilities in the case of AG, SV, SL and PW. No one, including LE seems to have any idea who the perp(s) is/are.

Who would have thought a retired Peel police officer (retired due to previous charges that included assault and child *advertiser censored*) would be found in possession of stolen police badges? What did he do with them? He had to have a motive to do something so risky that ultimately pointed to him. My favorite is the entire Toronto drug squad (all 9 members) being arrested back in 2001 or so. My point is no one is trustworthy anymore.

So, according to posted pics, monkeys4ever are a trio made up of a retired couple and a friend of roughly the same age? Do you know or are you able to check how far back this trio goes in the geocaching world?

Please don't get me wrong for questioning. All avenues must be explored to rule people out - or in.

Thanks.

 

[puppyraiser]

Speaking for myself, my thinking goes with odds, probabilities, logic and coincidence. I'm open to all probabilities in the case of AG, SV, SL and PW. No one, including LE seems to have any idea who the perp(s) is/are.

Who would have thought a retired Peel police officer (retired due to previous charges that included assault and child *advertiser censored*) would be found in possession of stolen police badges? What did he do with them? He had to have a motive to do something so risky that ultimately pointed to him. My favorite is the entire Toronto drug squad (all 9 members) being arrested back in 2001 or so. My point is no one is trustworthy anymore.

So, according to posted pics, monkeys4ever are a trio made up of a retired couple and a friend of roughly the same age? Do you know or are you able to check how far back this trio goes in the geocaching world?

Please don't get me wrong for questioning. All avenues must be explored to rule people out - or in.

Thanks.

No worries!
Not necessarily a trio as there are pictures with others... possibly grandchildren, family members, friends all out caching going back 4 years.

 

[roseofsharon]

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/08/24/10587246.html

I found this on another forum, where they are discussing whether this guy is responsible for SV and AG!!!

WOW!!! I'm going to try and find the date he plead guilty in December 2010.

Sounds like he was in the surrounding area and he definitely has issues!!!!

Oh -- and a poster on the other forum found his name on a roster for a "run" in Orangeville.

imo

 

[roseofsharon]

http://www.680news.com/news/local/article/157765--doctor-admits-to-sex-addiction-and-abusing-drugs

He plead guilty in December 2010, but did not go back to court until February 2011 for sentencing!!!!

 

[Woodland]

Puppyraiser - you have been a phenomenal source of info into the geocaching world and I praise you for being open and forthcoming with your info. It's invaluable since not everyone here could have done so.

Playing devil's advocate once again, I went back and reviewed other posters on Waymarking.com for Orangeville, Mono, Ancaster area and Wasaga Beach.

Oh, oh. The only common denominator is monkeys4ever.

Between Orangeville and Ancaster - only 1 other posts to both but not Mono and Wasaga.
Between Ancaster and Wasaga - only 1 other posts to both but not Mono or Orangeville.

It's 211 kms between PW residence in Wasaga Beach and AG residence in Lynden - taking 2 hours and 43 minutes. Info only, no implication or real point other than it's not a long drive.

In case LE has not read this, is it worth a tip?

 

[puppyraiser]

Puppyraiser - you have been a phenomenal source of info into the geocaching world and I praise you for being open and forthcoming with your info. It's invaluable since not everyone here could have done so.

Playing devil's advocate once again, I went back and reviewed other posters on Waymarking.com for Orangeville, Mono, Ancaster area and Wasaga Beach.

Oh, oh. The only common denominator is monkeys4ever.

Between Orangeville and Ancaster - only 1 other posts to both but not Mono and Wasaga.
Between Ancaster and Wasaga - only 1 other posts to both but not Mono or Orangeville.

It's 211 kms between PW residence in Wasaga Beach and AG residence in Lynden - taking 2 hours and 43 minutes. Info only, no implication or real point other than it's not a long drive.

In case LE has not read this, is it worth a tip?

I wouldn't put a lot of credence into the fact that that username seems to be one of a very few, if not the only one, to post on Waymarking.com for that region. If you go to other larger cities, like London, Kingston, Sarnia, Chatham and their surrounding areas you will likely find only a couple people making the listings too. Waymarking isn't nearly as popular and only a few diehards get into that area of the game. Much like the WhereIGo aspect of the game too.

Also Collingwood/Wasaga Beach is a popular vacation/cottage spot for people in that region so it would make sense if someone has a cottage they travel back and forth to that they would know the route well and could mark waypoints for other travellers.

Not trying to muddy the waters, just trying to explain that us Canucks will drive sometimes 4+ hours up to a cottage and not think twice about the distance.

 

[dotr]

I was looking over this old news article about Russell W and thought it might offer some insight to this case...
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/873244--inside-the-mind-of-col-russell-williams
“The most common variety (of schizophrenic) that commits murder is completely disorganized,” Quinsey says.

“They kill someone and wander off into the arms of the police.”

Williams was calculating. He planned his crimes. His primary residence was in Ottawa; his cottage was in Tweed. His regular jogs through his neighbourhoods were reconnaissance missions.

“When sex predators go out for a jog, they are always on the hunt — they're looking for the opportunity,” says Glenn Woods, former director of the RCMP's criminal profiling unit. “They spend a lot of time casing a place.”

Williams is what experts call a paraphilic — a sexual deviant. He stole lingerie and took pictures of the women he sexually assaulted, and of those he tied up, raped and murdered."

 

[libyana]

we must also think of these murders as a 'spree' and I still keep thinking of a scenario where the perp must have spent a lot of time casing women in southern Ontario out.
It is a very easy area to get around, someone had time on their hands in the summer of 2010. What is he doing and where is he now?

 

[dotr]

http://www.gpsthemovie.com/

 

[Hazel]

WELCOME to the thread puppyraiser, and thanks so much for sharing all that information.

Since you are all into geocaching, thought I'll post this video -- which is not the cemetery adjacent to Audrey's home, but the Pet Cemetery.

Geo-Caching the Ancaster Pet Cemetery at Night
http://www.youtube.com/user/joecomment?blend=2&ob=5#p/u/13/Z4ewwLKyFbA​

Thought perhaps these guys passed by Audrey's home, so I also watched the first 2 videos of them driving around Ancaster:

Twisty Road Adventure (Ancaster, Hamilton) :bicycle: Part 1 -- Part 2 -- Part 3

 

[Hazel]

This place could be very close to Audrey's home :

Trails End : http://www.trailsendiris.com/contact_us.htm

but seems it's only open May and June

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

FWIW, I was doing some reading last night and I learned that 99% of killers are interviewed by LE in the first set of interviews!

If this is the case with AG, LE has the perp's name and stats right under their noses!

Really, what are the odds that AG's killer falls into that other 1%?

-------------
ETA: I'm now discounting the geocachers as the perp(s) - unless a geocacher was in the first group of people interviewed by LE after AG's murder. The study I read last night was very compelling indeed!hwow:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

This place could be very close to Audrey's home :

Trails End : http://www.trailsendiris.com/contact_us.htm

but seems it's only open May and June

Oh, this is so very pretty. Audrey must have been comforted by the nature surrounding her home! God bless her heart.

It seems to only be open in the blooming months - but what would stop someone from hiding there in the dark, dreary, cold nights of December? And perhaps the people who run this place would be away during the cold Canadian months. Just a thought......:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

we must also think of these murders as a 'spree' and I still keep thinking of a scenario where the perp must have spent a lot of time casing women in southern Ontario out.
It is a very easy area to get around, someone had time on their hands in the summer of 2010. What is he doing and where is he now?

This post got me thinking of the different types of killers and here's what I found:

Mass Murderers: A mass murderer kills four or more people at one location during one continuous period of time, whether it is a few minutes or over a period of days. An example of a mass murderer would be Richard Speck, who killed eight student nurses in July of 1966, in a single night in their south Chicago townhouse. Killers who murder several members of their family, also fall into the mass murderer category.

Spree Killers: These murderers kill two or more victims, but are more than one location. Although their murders occur in separate locations, their spree is considered a single event, because there is no "cooling off" period between the murders. Robert Polin is an example of a spree killer. In October 1975 he killed one student and wounded five others at an Ottawa high school after earlier raping and stabbing a 17-year-old friend to death.

Serial Killers: Serial killers murder three or more victims, but each is killed on separate occasions. Unlike mass murderers and spree killers, serial killers usually select their victims, have cooling off periods between murders, and plan their crimes carefully. Some serial killers travel widely to find their victims, such as Ted Bundy, but others remain in the same general geographic area.


If we connect SV in this, I wonder if August, 2010 to December, 2010 would be considered a "cooling off period"?

 

[Snoopster]

http://www.680news.com/news/local/article/157765--doctor-admits-to-sex-addiction-and-abusing-drugs

He plead guilty in December 2010, but did not go back to court until February 2011 for sentencing!!!!

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/article/301331--emergency-room-doc-admits-to-sexually-assaulting-patients

The above article is dated December 15 and it mentions him pleading guilty. I assume he remained living with his parents in Mississauga under the terms of his bail that had been put in place after he was charged. One of the terms was that he not go to the Hamilton area unless under a supervised visit to his child or for medical appointments and court appearances. Of course we all know that that doesn't necessarily prevent someone from doing so, but it would be more difficult to stalk someone.

http://www.mississauga.com/print/79314

 

[dotr]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/WeirdNews/2011/10/15/18830296.html
The team says it analyzed stories told by 14 psychopathic male murderers held in Canadian prisons and compared them with 38 convicted murderers who were not diagnosed as psychopathic. Each subject was asked to describe his crime in detail and their stories were taped, transcribed and subjected to computer analysis.

"Psychopaths used more conjunctions like "because," "since" or "so that," implying that the crime "had to be done" to obtain a particular goal. They used twice as many words relating to physical needs, such as food, sex or money, while non-psychopaths used more words about social needs, including family, religion and spirituality," the paper says. "Unveiling their predatory nature in their own description, the psychopaths often included details of what they had to eat on the day of their crime."
more tips at link.