CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #4

[nicgumshoe]

I'm also thinking:

12 a) maybe older and close (could be young at heart somehow, but physically older)

 

[Woodland]

Like many fairly large cities, Hamilton has a drug culture/problem going on. Users will most certainly clean out the belongings of a home if they get inside and sell them to 'fencers' which only enables the problem. It was nice 50 years ago - only a small-time mafia problem for LE to worry about - or not.

 

[Sillybilly]

The only link I have is the one where Jon Wells talks to Safarik! As for Safarik being retired - he's still an expert FBI profiler and those FBI guys who are still working (not retired) might not have the time to come to Canada to help us!

I believe with the Bernardo case, another FBI retired profiler came here to assist our police. (Could VERY easily be wrong, though!!):crazy:

Oh, and once I'm retired from working with young offenders I'll probably still know a lot about the system and how/why young people become offenders!:whoosh:

Did that help, sillybilly?

Seems to me that JW is a good crime reporter who happens to have a resource in Safarik. IMO, that is quite different than saying that LE had called in the FBI.

Not diminishing Safarik's opinion in any way ... am just trying to keep the record straight on what is fact or otherwise (i.e. were they "called in" or is it just Safarik's opinion solicited by a crime reporter). Don't mean to be such a stickler, but it does become important down the road in keeping the record straight. For example, i've researched many years now on the missing/murdered women cases in western Canada. The cases had gone on for years and years with unsolicited comments and opinions from numerous sources. Then finally one day ... VOILA !! We were officially advised that a multi-agency brainstorming session had been organized, including some creme de la creme from the USA.

IMO, local LE would first ask for assistance from the OPP, then the RCMP, and if those agencies felt it necessary, FBI resources could be requested. At this point, I believe Hamilton LE is still the lead investigating agency (or have we been told otherwise??)

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

And now what makes no sense:

1. A female killer. (Just a feeling)

2. Killing for drugs and/or for drug money.

3. How the dogs were kept quiet.

4. Why AG was wearing a coat and shoes.

5. Why the eyes were 'wide open'.

------------------------------

And what we NEED to know:

1. What DNA do LE have?

2. Was the killer inside the house for an extended period of time?

3. Who sent "Amazing Grace"?

4. What were the killing instruments?

5. Was AG hiding a huge secret from her past?

6. Why PK went to deliver the cake when there was no answer on the phone when he called AG.

7. Did AG have a double lifestyle?

8. Who sold AG the Camaro(s).

9. Was there one killer or partners?

10. Did the killer(s) attend the funeral/memorial?

Questions..............:waitasec:

 

[Sillybilly]

I think it's because the most prestigious and largest place for ALL types of people who work with criminals worldwide is in Quantico, Virginia. The FBI place! :twocents:

I'm might be a tch biased here, but Canada's esteemed RCMP Behavioural Sciences Unit is possibly just more humble about their expertise

and yes, they do go to Quantico for some of their training and they do collaborate and share information.

 

[Sillybilly]

And now what makes no sense:


2. Killing for drugs and/or for drug money.

<rsbm>

Might be a long shot, but I've toyed with the idea that this could be a drug related retaliation killing.

The drug culture is everywhere. The most upstanding of peeps can unwittingly be on the periphery. [modsnip].

Not that I give a lot of credence to my own far-fetched theory, but it is a theory

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I'm might be a tch biased here, but Canada's esteemed RCMP Behavioural Sciences Unit is possibly just more humble about their expertise

and yes, they do go to Quantico for some of their training and they do collaborate and share information.

:floorlaugh:OK, I get it!! Not another word about that place and those people in a place in Virginia, near Washington, DC!!:floorlaugh:

:leaf2::leaf::leaf2::leaf::leaf2:

 

[nicgumshoe]

Please, no offense - but *I* think this is waaaay too out there. In AG's case, addicts (and others in the drug scene) would be after heavy duty stuff. PK said AG didn't take any prescription meds.

Other than street drugs (coke, smack, etc.) people are looking for Oxycontin, Vicodin, Oxycodone, all the 'big stuff', Morphine, too. In my experience, it's homes where someone has died and the obit says "Donations to the cancer society". Those home no doubt are filled with morphine and other painkillers. Big targets.

How was AG a target in this way?:twocents:

I agree, drugs are a long shot. But, there's always the chance somebody went to the wrong house....and meant to go to a neighbor's place. When AG saw them, he/they couldn't let her live.

A regular execution style hit would have been too obvious, so they went with the maniac MO. I can see a pro killer doing that.

This kind of thing happens, especially on the flip side. ie: LE going to the wrong house for a raid and beating/arresting innocent folks. I can think of several cases.

While we tend think of the city as the place for drugs, there's a lot of big(ger) deals going on in the sticks.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Oh I know drugs are everywhere - big cities and the small communities - but I cannot see this as a drug thing in AG's case.:twocents:

Addicts and the dealers are far too greedy for the stuff to stay around and take the time to murder AG the way she was murdered.

I'm happy people are examining all opinions/options, but this one doesn't do it for me!!:twocents:

I'm sticking with young and close with no drug reasons. Now, that said, the young and close could very easily be a drug user ("drug user" includes alcohol) and he might have gotten gunned right after the killing. Now that I can easily understand!

------------

ETA: Now, how about SV and someone needing drugs? She was a nurse who could get her hands on the stuff! And what about SV - did she take prescription meds that are popular with addicts?:twocents:

But, in my opinion, not in AG's case!!

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Is our 'December guy' at it again?

LINK - http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20111129/111129_woman_injured/20111129/?hub=CP24Home

 

[nicgumshoe]

Oh I know drugs are everywhere - big cities and the small communities - but I cannot see this as a drug thing in AG's case.:twocents:

Addicts and the dealers are far too greedy for the stuff to stay around and take the time to murder AG the way she was murdered.

I'm happy people are examining all opinions/options, but this one doesn't do it for me!!:twocents:

I'm sticking with young and close with no drug reasons. Now, that said, the young and close could very easily be a drug user ("drug user" includes alcohol) and he might have gotten gunned right after the killing. Now that I can easily understand!

------------

ETA: Now, how about SV and someone needing drugs? She was a nurse who could get her hands on the stuff! And what about SV - did she take prescription meds that are popular with addicts?:twocents:

But, in my opinion, not in AG's case!!

I agree it was not some everyday low-life drug dealer or user.
Actually, I was thinking "major leagues". ie: that someone went to do a hit, but went to the wrong house. For example, the angels sent someone to take out a member of the competition, but they goofed.

We can probably imagine a pro biker hitman also being a major psycho, so he went psycho to cover his tracks.

 

[dotr]

Now here is a nasty confrontation between female youth that turns terribly violent on a Toronto street, now can you just imagine AG coming outside and telling off some guy/girls messing with her mailbox or partying out in the woods or near the cemetery?


WARNING THIS IS VIOLENT WITH CURSING IN VIDEO!
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2011/11/28/19031936.html

"One of the girls lunges forward and smacks the victim in the face several times. Another girl then moves in and drives her fist into the victim&#8217;s head, knocking her to the pavement. The victim, cowering in fetal position, is then repeatedly kicked by all three girls in the stomach, the face and the back of the head.

The beating continues for half a minute, despite the victim&#8217;s wails of agony. When the attack finally stops, one of the assailants spits on the downed woman. It&#8217;s only then that a female passerby comes to her aid.

Police were notified of the video by someone in the U.S. Who had run across it while surfing the Internet".

 

[nicgumshoe]

I think one key thing that PK said concerning AG's behavior towards strangers was this,

"AG's response to a stranger arriving unannounced would vary by time of day. She might ignore them or use the dogs to try and scare them off but she did tell me stories of sitting door-to-door visitors on the bench and talking to them for hours on end&#8230; hehe"

from: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2


If we are to believe him, then we can consider that this may have been a stranger.
Maybe they started off talking on the bench, but because it was cold outside they moved into the garage. Or maybe she motioned the perp to the garage right off.

The dogs being confined may have just been something AG did regularly when she wasn't in the house with them. ie: to prevent them from messing things up, especially with a guest/visitor being around.

 

[LilyMacBloom]

Whatever has happened to us that we can walk by something like this and do nothing? I understand not wanting to get involved in a fight but NOT calling the police? Shame on however used their phone to record the incident instead of calling 911! Karmas a B****!

jumps off her vent box :truce:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

A few things now that I'm home from shopping in the pelting rain :raincloud::

1. I suppose AG could have been killed by a psycho biker gang member, but still that (for some unknown reason!) doesn't feel right to me.:twocents:

2. As for Lily's point about 'why do we walk right past violence and not call 911'. Well, it's a really difficult question to answer. In the high school system, teachers are told to immediately call the office if there is a violent episode. Every school year, on the first day, police come in to speak with the staff. Teachers are told (by cops) to keep the peaceful ones safe and not to interfere with the violent ones. Interfering could set off MORE/WORSE violence. I also think that there have been so many school shootings that teachers, students, caretakers, secretaries, etc. are highly reluctant to confront a known violent young person.

I know - what I just said there makes no sense at all, but I'm afraid it's reality!:twocents:

Oh, and about calling 911 - cell phones are not allowed in classrooms (teachers included). So........... :dunno:

--------------

ETA: More on woman found:

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20111129/111129_woman_injured/20111129/?hub=CP24Home

 

[nicgumshoe]

Now here is a nasty confrontation between female youth that turns terribly violent on a Toronto street, now can you just imagine AG coming outside and telling off some guy/girls messing with her mailbox or partying out in the woods or near the cemetery?


WARNING THIS IS VIOLENT WITH CURSING IN VIDEO!
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2011/11/28/19031936.html

"One of the girls lunges forward and smacks the victim in the face several times. Another girl then moves in and drives her fist into the victim&#8217;s head, knocking her to the pavement. The victim, cowering in fetal position, is then repeatedly kicked by all three girls in the stomach, the face and the back of the head.

The beating continues for half a minute, despite the victim&#8217;s wails of agony. When the attack finally stops, one of the assailants spits on the downed woman. It&#8217;s only then that a female passerby comes to her aid.

Police were notified of the video by someone in the U.S. Who had run across it while surfing the Internet".

Typical of today's inner city mentality and a statement about the values of our society in general. When you can't walk the streets at night it's time to take more drastic/different measures than what LE can achieve.

I lived in Japan for a number of years, where heavy social drinking is very popular. I would often see executives passed out on the street with their brief cases and all belongings, and was amazed to hear that they never get robbed. I also heard of guys leaving their full wallets in places, and then having them delivered to their homes by police or taxi the next day, with all contents present. Of course, Japan isn't without some problems and if you go to prison there it's tougher than here. But that's not it; it's more of a "respect for others" thing...and probably the buddhist mentality that's taught from a young age. And a general sense of social responsibility.

 

[dotr]

I think one key thing that PK said concerning AG's behavior towards strangers was this,

"AG's response to a stranger arriving unannounced would vary by time of day. She might ignore them or use the dogs to try and scare them off but she did tell me stories of sitting door-to-door visitors on the bench and talking to them for hours on end… hehe"

from: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2


If we are to believe him, then we can consider that this may have been a stranger.
Maybe they started off talking on the bench, but because it was cold outside they moved into the garage. Or maybe she motioned the perp to the garage right off.

The dogs being confined may have just been something AG did regularly when she wasn't in the house with them. ie: to prevent them from messing things up, especially with a guest/visitor being around.

I could envision AG heading out for a TH's donut (maybe as a special holiday treat for the dogs) or the store for smokes - whatever- and forgetting or having stolen, some item or another and ( someone)returning it, or helping to carry/fix something at her house,Could Audrey have politely tucked away the dogs, and opened wide her door with a smile of gratitude on her face?.

 

[Woodland]

That could have happened dotr, but the person was awfully prepared for a chance meeting.

 

[Sillybilly]

I was on Craigslist last night searching for fencing materials. Went online this morning, and Canadian Craigslist is gone !! Craigslist in all of Canada has been shut down. In googling WRT that issue, there are other news articles, seemingly unrelated to the Canadian shutdown, that FBI are investigating Craigslist related crimes in the US where victims have been lured to their death:

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/l...shColumbiaHome

AG was an avid computer user. I don't think we've explored the possibility that she may have met her killer in this fashion.

ETA: After I posted the above, google news says Craigslist is back up. I still can't access it though.

 

[dotr]

http://www.craigslist.org/about/domain_tou_violation
Why am I seeing this page?

The website formerly operating at this domain violated craigslist's Terms of Use (TOU), and/or enabled or facilitated others in violating the TOU, and/or infringed craigslist's trademark(s) or other intellectual property. The domain has been transferred to craigslist.

craigslist does not permit automated posting or the employment of posting agents (software or human). Users who post non-local or irrelevant content, repeatedly post the same or similar content, or otherwise misuse craigslist's services detract from the user experience for all craigslist users.

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This is what I found, what's up with that?