CANADA Canada - Nicole Morin, 8, Toronto, 30 July 1985

[photographer4]

I don’t think it was a split second decision either. IMO, someone heard or knew the girls were meeting up for their pool date. Maybe Nicole talked to someone in the lobby when she was getting the mail and mentioned it in general conversation about the weather that day. That same someone could have watched the elevator while Nicole went back to her apartment and knew what floor she lived on. Just one possible scenario.

If this was a split second decision, I’d be super surprised! That is way too many things to fall in line and make the escape as clean as it was. This had to have involved some degree of premeditation in my view. Maybe it was someone noticed the routine of kids meeting in the lobby and going to the pool. IF Nicole made it to the lobby, someone could have been sat there waiting for a kid - any kid - to exit the elevator alone. They may have sat waiting for the area to clear, pretended to be busy getting mail, or wandering about, walking a small dog. Anything is possible. If someone got there right before Nicole did and no one else was around, they could have grabbed her right out of the elevator as the doors opened, and left out the front or side door to a waiting car. Or, they could have joined her on the elevator as it opened in the lobby and taken it down to the parking level and off they go to a waiting car. I just don’t think someone was ballsy enough to make a sudden split second decision without ANY degree of pre-planning. The risks of being seen / caught would have been too high!

In Jacob Wetterling’s case, we learned when the perp was caught that he had actually seen the boys ride off to the store and figured they’d come back the same route so he parked in a driveway and laid in wait, then grabbed the one he wanted out of the three after a brief conversation. That wasn’t a split second decision - that guy had at least ten mins or maybe a few minutes longer to decide that he was going to do it, and how, and to lay his trap. Nicole’s case may be something like that even.

I think someone knew the routine. Someone realized the kids were unsupervised and meeting in the lobby and someone just decided they’d do it one day when no one was around to see. If the building didn’t have CCTV as some did in those days and some did not, then its even more likely to me that this was a degree of planned. They’d possibly not have done it if they knew cameras might be watching / recording when parents were not looking.

This is one case that I really feel is solvable. I think its likely the answer is already there in the police files and it has just gone overlooked. I wonder at what point the file will be opened and the public allowed to take a stab at it? What would the process be to get that done, and would the family be interested in having volunteers look at this case?

 

[Snoop Sister]

If this was a split second decision, I’d be super surprised! That is way too many things to fall in line and make the escape as clean as it was. This had to have involved some degree of premeditation in my view. Maybe it was someone noticed the routine of kids meeting in the lobby and going to the pool. IF Nicole made it to the lobby, someone could have been sat there waiting for a kid - any kid - to exit the elevator alone. They may have sat waiting for the area to clear, pretended to be busy getting mail, or wandering about, walking a small dog. Anything is possible. If someone got there right before Nicole did and no one else was around, they could have grabbed her right out of the elevator as the doors opened, and left out the front or side door to a waiting car. Or, they could have joined her on the elevator as it opened in the lobby and taken it down to the parking level and off they go to a waiting car. I just don’t think someone was ballsy enough to make a sudden split second decision without ANY degree of pre-planning. The risks of being seen / caught would have been too high!

In Jacob Wetterling’s case, we learned when the perp was caught that he had actually seen the boys ride off to the store and figured they’d come back the same route so he parked in a driveway and laid in wait, then grabbed the one he wanted out of the three after a brief conversation. That wasn’t a split second decision - that guy had at least ten mins or maybe a few minutes longer to decide that he was going to do it, and how, and to lay his trap. Nicole’s case may be something like that even.

I think someone knew the routine. Someone realized the kids were unsupervised and meeting in the lobby and someone just decided they’d do it one day when no one was around to see. If the building didn’t have CCTV as some did in those days and some did not, then its even more likely to me that this was a degree of planned. They’d possibly not have done it if they knew cameras might be watching / recording when parents were not looking.

This is one case that I really feel is solvable. I think its likely the answer is already there in the police files and it has just gone overlooked. I wonder at what point the file will be opened and the public allowed to take a stab at it? What would the process be to get that done, and would the family be interested in having volunteers look at this case?

Good questions. I don’t know in Toronto if the public would ever be given a chance to review the file because of Foip But, it is something worth looking into. I think the family might go for volunteers to look at the case.

 

[photographer4]

Good questions. I don’t know in Toronto if the public would ever be given a chance to review the file because of Foip But, it is something worth looking into. I think the family might go for volunteers to look at the case.

The way I understand it is as follows: the family (next of kin, so in this case, Nicole's father, Art), would have to have Nicole declared dead, and that would end the missing person investigation by police. At that point, the file could be released to I think the family to do with as they pleased. But I'm not sure if that is the exact process, or if perhaps I've misunderstood something somewhere.

Even if they did release the entire file to the family (which I think is highly unlikely given the need to protect the privacy of any persons of interest who were not named official suspects etc). I just honestly think though that it is likely the answer is already somewhere in that police file. Some suspect they cannot name due to lack of evidence or someone they just don't have enough on to charge, but they strongly think they did it.

 

[Snoop Sister]

The way I understand it is as follows: the family (next of kin, so in this case, Nicole's father, Art), would have to have Nicole declared dead, and that would end the missing person investigation by police. At that point, the file could be released to I think the family to do with as they pleased. But I'm not sure if that is the exact process, or if perhaps I've misunderstood something somewhere.

Even if they did release the entire file to the family (which I think is highly unlikely given the need to protect the privacy of any persons of interest who were not named official suspects etc). I just honestly think though that it is likely the answer is already somewhere in that police file. Some suspect they cannot name due to lack of evidence or someone they just don't have enough on to charge, but they strongly think they did it.

I agree that the answer is mostly likely in the police file somewhere.

 

[photographer4]

I agree that the answer is mostly likely in the police file somewhere.

So what do you imagine happened? Which scenario do you think best fits with the circumstances? If you were to go back in the files, what would you be looking for in them?

I'd be looking for the names of every tenant in the building and to confirm they spoke with them. I'd be then looking to verify the alibi of each tenant. I'd be noting each one I couldn't verify (eg: they were at work? Where? Was it proven?). If they were home, what were they doing and how can it be proven? EG: Tenant P12 might have said he was watching tv at that time. Ok. We cannot prove that. I'd bring him back in for further questioning and clarification. If he couldn't verify his alibi, I'd be eyeballing him a lot more!

I'd want to see who dropped their kids at daycare. Anyone of the daycare parents think Nicole needed a better life? Anyone of them quit daycare just before this happened? Anyone see Nicole that morning at drop off?

 

[Snoop Sister]

Some difficult questions. I think the first question that I would want to know is where was Nicole the last time her mother saw her. Was Nicole in the hallway, was she near the elevator or did her mother see her walk in to the elevator. Depending on the answer to the above questions, I would go from there.

For some reason, I don’t think daycare parents were involved. I would think that by 11 a.m. most daycare drop offs would have already occurred. But, that is something I would be looking for in the files ie the recorded times of all daycare drop offs on that day.

 

[photographer4]

Some difficult questions. I think the first question that I would want to know is where was Nicole the last time her mother saw her. Was Nicole in the hallway, was she near the elevator or did her mother see her walk in to the elevator. Depending on the answer to the above questions, I would go from there.

For some reason, I don’t think daycare parents were involved. I would think that by 11 a.m. most daycare drop offs would have already occurred. But, that is something I would be looking for in the files ie the recorded times of all daycare drop offs on that day.

I'm exactly there with you! I have always wanted to know - Jeanette watched her daughter leave the apt. What does this mean? Did she stand in the doorway and watch her walk down the hallway? See her call for the elevator? See her board it? That one line of questioning could change the timeline by a whole lot and give a lot more information on how organized or disorganized this crime was!

I only ask about the daycare parents because I'd like to know if any of the saw Nicole that day at all. I'd imagine perhaps they saw her as they dropped their kids off. I assume some must have because the fact that she was there that morning and went to get the mail before she was abducted has never been questioned that I know of by police (at least not in any media I've ever seen). And the fact that she successfully retrieved the mail doesn't seem to be in question either, so I can only assume police managed to somehow verify that - perhaps the neighbors saw her do so, or she was captured on a closed captioned video? Perhaps the mail was upstairs when police arrived? Although, I wonder how they'd know it was the mail for *that* morning vs any other morning in recent days?

 

[Red Viewfinder]

I suspect that, just like Tania Murrell, the police know exactly who did this, but have never had the evidence to bring charges.

 

[Vern]

Random crimes of opportunity were much easier to pull off and get away with back then. Just look at the number of girls missing in Toronto (and unsolved) to this day. Distinct differences in security, the amount of 'freedom' afforded children by their parents (our rule was simply that when the streetlights came on it meant it was time to make our way home ... from whatever we were up to/doing). Most apartment buildings were not 'secure' like they are today. Even if they were, air condtionning wasn't as prevalent/popular thus doors were frequently propped open on hot summer days etc etc. The more common assumption back then that crime didn't affect "good people" doing normal things so no need to be constantly 'on guard' or 'on watch' for hinky things that may be happening around you. Multiple major highway routes very close by and most people too busy going about their own (minding their own) business as was the expectation back then.

Parents have been ruled out; I'll trust that as we are victim friendly here.

Where are you Nicole? It's time to come home.

 

[Snoop Sister]

I would love to have a peak at Nicole’s police file!

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The disappearance of Nicole Morin is one of Toronto’s most enduring — and chilling — mysteries. Nicole’s disappearance came at a time when the uncommon seemed horrifyingly common: The murders of small children.

Now, The Toronto Sun has learned, the Toronto Police homicide team’s Cold Case Unit is turning up the heat on an investigation that broke the toughest detectives, leaving them in tears.

“It never looked like Nicole just wandered away,” Det. Stella Karras told The Sun.

Two weeks ago, investigators were digging at an undisclosed location north of the city where it was suspected the bright little girl with the Chiclet teeth may have been buried.

Thirty-four years ago Nicole Morin, 8, went missing on the morning of July 30, 1985. Police released an updated age-enhanced image asking the public to help identify her. Handout photo/Toronto Police Service.

“The tip that pointed us there was a follow up to some information we had received in 2014,” Karras said. “We’re now calling this Project Finic for Find Nicole.”

HUNTER EXCLUSIVE: Cops turn up heat on Nicole Morin disappearance

Nicole Morin walked out of her apartment at 627 The West Mall in Etobicoke on July 30, 1985 at around 11 a.m. and vanished into thin air.

torontosun.com

 

[dotr]

The disappearance of Nicole Morin is one of Toronto’s most enduring — and chilling — mysteries. Nicole’s disappearance came at a time when the uncommon seemed horrifyingly common: The murders of small children.

Now, The Toronto Sun has learned, the Toronto Police homicide team’s Cold Case Unit is turning up the heat on an investigation that broke the toughest detectives, leaving them in tears.

“It never looked like Nicole just wandered away,” Det. Stella Karras told The Sun.

Two weeks ago, investigators were digging at an undisclosed location north of the city where it was suspected the bright little girl with the Chiclet teeth may have been buried.

Thirty-four years ago Nicole Morin, 8, went missing on the morning of July 30, 1985. Police released an updated age-enhanced image asking the public to help identify her. Handout photo/Toronto Police Service.

“The tip that pointed us there was a follow up to some information we had received in 2014,” Karras said. “We’re now calling this Project Finic for Find Nicole.”

HUNTER EXCLUSIVE: Cops turn up heat on Nicole Morin disappearance

Nicole Morin walked out of her apartment at 627 The West Mall in Etobicoke on July 30, 1985 at around 11 a.m. and vanished into thin air.

torontosun.com

Thanks for the fresh link!

June 29 2022 rbbm.

HUNTER EXCLUSIVE: Cops turn up heat on Nicole Morin disappearance

Nicole Morin walked out of her apartment at 627 The West Mall in Etobicoke on July 30, 1985 at around 11 a.m. and vanished into thin air.

torontosun.com

“Now we are able to focus on collaborating on cold cases and bringing a new lens to the original missing persons investigations, Karras said, adding that the disappearance of Nicole Morin is being investigated as a homicide.

When the Homicide Unit got the Morin files, they realized they needed updating, Karras said. Every scrap was scanned and digitized.

“We wanted to look at the case with a different lens and with the benefit of time,” the veteran detective noted.
And new technologies. But most of those can never be deployed without the body of Nicole Morin.

“Our goal is to find Nicole, that’s our priority, give her a proper burial for some closure for her and if we can find her, use the new technology to get a suspect DNA and then arrest the killer,” Karras said, adding that cops have not zeroed in on a particular suspect.''

“But there were a number of sexual offenders in the neighbourhood that day,” she said. “There were so many tenant tips but we could never find any solid evidence.”

She added: “It’s so frustrating. We don’t know if Nicole even made it to the lobby. We have always assumed she was abducted but where from … the hallway, the elevator? We just don’t know. The poor thing just disappeared without a trace.”

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Toronto police released an age-enhanced, artist rendition of Nicole Morin in 2019. The sketch is of what the missing girl might look like at the age of 42

Toronto police showing renewed interest in disappearance of 8-year-old Nicole Morin

Almost 37 years after eight-year-old Nicole Morin went missing from her Etobicoke home, Toronto police are renewing efforts to close her case as a part of the new missing persons unit.

toronto.citynews.ca

 

[tarabull]

"Missing persons group to use cadaver dogs to search Toronto park for Nicole Morin's remains" Missing persons group to use cadaver dogs to search Toronto park for Nicole Morin's remains

 

[dotr]

rbbm.

Missing persons group to use cadaver dogs to search Etobicoke park for Nicole Morin's remains

A not-for-profit group that solicits tips about missing persons cases is planning to use cadaver dogs to search a large park in Etobicoke Thursday for the remains of Nicole Morin.

www.cp24.com

''Brett Robinson, of Please Bring Me Home (PBMH), said about two years ago he began speaking with a woman who believes she saw Nicole with a man she knew in a west-end park on the day of her disappearance.

Nicole Morin, 8, went missing on July 30, 1985.
''The alleged witness, who is now in her early 50s but was around 12 years old at that time, has declined to speak with the media at this time.

“This person she identified had allegedly sexually assaulted her. There’s lot of pain, lots of trauma there,” said Robinson, who visited the undisclosed green space late last month.

Toronto police have said that their investigators follow up on any possible leads in the case, and are not involved in the group’s search.


Robinson said that his organization decided to go ahead with a search of the park after not being able to “eliminate” this person from being at that unnamed location at the time indicated by the witness.''

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

More here, I think:

Volunteer missing persons group to search Etobicoke, Ont. park for Nicole Morin’s remains - Toronto | Globalnews.ca

The organization Please Bring Me Home will lead the search for Nicole Morin, who was eight-years-old when she went missing, following up on a tip they received two years ago.

globalnews.ca

Cadaver dogs get a hit:

Cadaver dogs return a ‘hit’ in Etobicoke search for Nicole Morin, missing since 1985

For now, it’s far too early to say if the dogs have found the missing girl’s body in an undisclosed Etobicoke park, explained Brett Robinson of the organization Please Bring Me Home.

www.thestar.com

 

[TOSleuth75]

Police search for remains of Nicole Morin, possible links to Christine Jessop case

There could definitely be a link to Hoover. He was a telephone technician at the time (a cable installer), so would go out to various jobs. Wonder if the telecom company he worked for (Eastern Independent Telecom) would have any records of his whereabouts on the day Nicole went missing. An article I came across also mentioned that cameras were being installed the day after Nicole went missing - that's huge and shouldn't be overlooked! Who was aware of this? As a cable installer, could Hoover have been involved with this type of job? Really hope police are looking at all of this.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Wouldn’t LE have been obliged to check into any/all men who had been in the area at the times of these crimes? One would hope so.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

i just found this

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/christine-jessop-killer-dna-interview-1.5903381

 

[JDG]

Thanks for the fresh link!

June 29 2022 rbbm.

HUNTER EXCLUSIVE: Cops turn up heat on Nicole Morin disappearance

Nicole Morin walked out of her apartment at 627 The West Mall in Etobicoke on July 30, 1985 at around 11 a.m. and vanished into thin air.

torontosun.com

“Now we are able to focus on collaborating on cold cases and bringing a new lens to the original missing persons investigations, Karras said, adding that the disappearance of Nicole Morin is being investigated as a homicide.

When the Homicide Unit got the Morin files, they realized they needed updating, Karras said. Every scrap was scanned and digitized.

“We wanted to look at the case with a different lens and with the benefit of time,” the veteran detective noted.
And new technologies. But most of those can never be deployed without the body of Nicole Morin.

“Our goal is to find Nicole, that’s our priority, give her a proper burial for some closure for her and if we can find her, use the new technology to get a suspect DNA and then arrest the killer,” Karras said, adding that cops have not zeroed in on a particular suspect.''

“But there were a number of sexual offenders in the neighbourhood that day,” she said. “There were so many tenant tips but we could never find any solid evidence.”

She added: “It’s so frustrating. We don’t know if Nicole even made it to the lobby. We have always assumed she was abducted but where from … the hallway, the elevator? We just don’t know. The poor thing just disappeared without a trace.”

I was driving all over TO on that day.

It was a major moving day, vans were everywhere.

Nicole could have been taken at any point in her large complex, rolled into a rug or tossed into a small freezer and taken away.

It was a terrible decade in TO for young girls being murdered while doing what children should be able to do. So many of them…..