Identified! Canada - Vancouver, 2 WhtMale Brothers, 7-10, "Babes in the Woods", Jan'53 - Derek and David D’Alton

[breachtones]

I'm also curious about the D'alton surname. The boys were half brothers so wouldn't have the same name unless mom married and her husband adopted them. The sister had said she didn't know her or her brothers fathers.

D'Alton itself is an odd surname too. Never seen it with an apostrophe.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

Det. Aida Rodriguez said the boys were likely impoverished and had at least one other sibling. Derek and David had different fathers and their mother used a different last name beginning in the 1950s, she said. Police identify boys whose bodies were found in Stanley Park - Victoria Times Colonist

The additional last name I found for the mother was not D'alton. Do they mean she started using an alias? Also what family member lived near the entrance of Stanley Park?

 

[Sillybilly]

If we find information through obituaries, etc. Are we allowed to mention it as long as we leave out the names or link for privacy?

As long as members are 100% confident they have the right individual, a link can be provided to the obituary, but other family names should not be posted here. Members may use initials only and possibly indicate what the relationship was.

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

What I found out about the mother through miscellaneous searches:

*I choose not to list her name even though some news sources have. I've noticed it is only one reporter that has released it while other reputable sources have not released it.*

• Per news articles and Myhertitage, She was likely born in 1918 and had a twin sister. That would have made her around 19 years old when her first child was born in 1937. She died in 1996 at 78 years old.

• Per a sibling's obituary (not mentioned in articles so not going to link out of privacy), she was one of six children, three boys and three girls (EBB b.1918-1996, JJB b.1916-2019, JB b.1913-2008, CB b.1915-1919?, DB b.1918-unk, EB b.Unk.) To a Mr. JB and Mrs. JB b.1892-1925?. Who all are deceased. Last one passed in 2019 at 103 years old (b.1916). It also mentions that they were orphaned at a young age and grew up in St Albert, Alberta. (Edmonton was listed in another siblings obituary, they are neighboring cities) *? with dates- likely but not enough evidence to be 100% confirmed, limited data, etc.*

• Per Find a Grave and MyHertitage, she married sometime after the boy's deaths with last name Mc, most likely mid-late 1950's as husband's previous divorce is listed as late 1952. He was significantly older than her; born in early 1900's and died in 1969. His Find a Grave lists her as his spouse when he passed. Her step-son died in 1959 in his early 20's. She likely never remarried because that last name is mentioned in her daughter's obituary in 2020 (who is mentioned in the articles but only obituary I was able to find has personal contact information to the family)

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

What I found out about the mother through miscellaneous searches:

*I choose not to list her name even though some news sources have. I've noticed it is only one reporter that has released it while other reputable sources have not released it.*

• Per news articles and Myhertitage, She was likely born in 1918 and had a twin sister. That would have made her around 19 years old when her first child was born in 1937. She died in 1996 at 78 years old.

• Per a sibling's obituary (not mentioned in articles so not going to link out of privacy), she was one of six children, three boys and three girls (EBB b.1918-1996, JJB b.1916-2019, JB b.1913-2008, CB b.1915-1919?, DB b.1918-unk, EB b.Unk.) To a Mr. JB and Mrs. JB b.1892-1925?. Who all are deceased. Last one passed in 2019 at 103 years old (b.1916). It also mentions that they were orphaned at a young age and grew up in St Albert, Alberta. (Edmonton was listed in another siblings obituary, they are neighboring cities) *? with dates- likely but not enough evidence to be 100% confirmed, limited data, etc.*

• Per Find a Grave and MyHertitage, she married sometime after the boy's deaths with last name Mc, most likely mid-late 1950's as husband's previous divorce is listed as late 1952. He was significantly older than her; born in early 1900's and died in 1969. His Find a Grave lists her as his spouse when he passed. Her step-son died in 1959 in his early 20's. She likely never remarried because that last name is mentioned in her daughter's obituary in 2020 (who is mentioned in the articles but only obituary I was able to find has personal contact information to the family)

Also curious is her late husband(d.1969) is buried along side his ex-in-laws, parents of the wife he divorced in 1952. His son (d.1959) is also buried along side them which could be the reason why. His son(her step-son) was only a year older then her daughter.

 

[Bit of hope]

Who are the Babes in the Woods found dead in Stanley Park? - Vancouver Is Awesome

by Eve Lazarus
''Ally Brady, 26 was flicking through the family album one day when she discovered that she had two great uncles who she had never met. The older boy had blonde hair and blue eyes, and the younger had darker features. When Ally asked her grandmother Diane who they were, she found out they were Diane’s younger brothers David and Derek Bousquet.

“I remember my mother sharing stories with me about her mother’s poverty and how they used to jump out of windows at places they were renting in Vancouver to avoid having to pay because they were just so poor,” Ally says that she was told the two little boys were taken away by social services because their mother Eileen, a sex worker of Metis heritage, was too poor to look after them. Diane remained with her mother.''

''Police have always believed that the boys were killed by their mother, who covered them up with her coat and most likely committed suicide soon afterwards.''

AUDIO
Eve Lazarus on a new development in an old cold case | On The Coast with Gloria Macarenko | Live Radio | CBC Listen
On The Coast with Gloria MacarenkoEve Lazarus on a new development in an old cold case

''Nearly 70 years ago in 1953, the bodies of two children were found buried in Stanley Park. The case was dubbed "Babes in the Woods," and became one of Vancouver's oldest cold cases. Now we know the identities of those two boys, taking us a step closer to finding out what happened. For more on this we reached Eve Lazarus. She's a Vancouver-based author and crime historian, and the creator of the Cold Case Canada podcast.''
Aired: Feb. 14, 2022''

This is really a miracle....Thanks to all people who never gave up.

 

[DSCrime]

 

[carbuff]

@aThousandYearsWide , thank you for being so respectful of the family's privacy. They've got enough to deal with processing these ghosts from their past.

 

[Satchie]

Press release:

" David was age six and Derek age seven at the time of death –

"We were able to confirm Derek D'Alton, born on February 27, 1940, and David D'Alton, born on June 24, 1941, were in fact the Babes in the Woods," announced Detective Constable Aida Rodriguez,

Two things I get from this:

The research company found their actual birth certificates, or, maybe school or hospital records recording their birth dates. IMO, this is likely where their last names comes from.

Also, some kind of research has given police confidence about when they died: Between late June 1947 and late February 1948.

IMO, school attendance records might have been a source for this info.

JMO

ETA School records aren't necessarily in big databases, often they've been collected and preserved in local archives.

 

[LadyL]

hope family can give them a proper memorial service now
RIP sweet angels

 

[30Anne]

Just an observation, I believe that this tragic event has a lot of layers to it. I am glad the boys have their names back.

 

[Bit of hope]

Woke up thinking about this case. It's the coat she laid over them.... IMO there was love, but so much desperation....I wonder what it's like to be living with this horrendous crime....keeping it a secret and taking it to your grave.

 

[Eman317]

RIP David and Derek.

 

[PatLaurel]

I'm also curious about the D'alton surname. The boys were half brothers so wouldn't have the same name unless mom married and her husband adopted them. The sister had said she didn't know her or her brothers fathers.

"Ally(great niece of the boys) says Diane did not know who her father was or who the fathers were of her half-brothers."
Who are the Babes in the Woods found dead in Stanley Park? - Vancouver Is Awesome

There's a Mrs. ED listed as widow and householder in the 1941 BC directory.
A JJC is also listed at that same address. In 1940 JJC was already living there and the other part of the house is listed as vacant. There are no ED or EB listed in BC in 1940.
The following years (1941-1952) Mrs. ED is listed as resident in several different addresses.
I could not make a connection between EB and the D surname. No marriage/obit records.
In 1959 there's a notice of application for change of name of a DB to DD. Assuming DB is the boys' sister, does it mean EB legally married a D or could DB just change her name without a legal document/connection? Sorry for the confusing wording...

MOO JMO

 

[Blurgle]

There's a Mrs. ED listed as widow and householder in the 1941 BC directory.
A JJC is also listed at that same address. In 1940 JJC was already living there and the other part of the house is listed as vacant. There are no ED or EB listed in BC in 1940.
The following years (1941-1952) Mrs. ED is listed as resident in several different addresses.
I could not make a connection between EB and the D surname. No marriage/obit records.
In 1959 there's a notice of application for change of name of a DB to DD. Assuming DB is the boys' sister, does it mean EB legally married a D or could DB just change her name without a legal document/connection? Sorry for the confusing wording...

MOO JMO

I can confirm that a woman did not (and does not, although the law now allows men the same right) need to apply for a legal change of name in British Columbia if the change of surname was due to marriage. One could just begin using the new name; the marriage certificate was accepted as adequate documentation.

If someone wanted to change their name otherwise, they would have to make an application to the courts and a notice would be placed in the newspaper.

 

[Andreee]

https://twitter.com/ALRedgrave/status/1493308225495654407
Redgrave Research was the agency in charge of the research. Anthony Redgrave tweeted this information yesterday and today.

https://twitter.com/ALRedgrave/status/1493308225495654407
Anthony Lukas Redgrave, M.S.
@ALRedgrave
Replying to @Kaylara0wl

Eve was not given permission to share this information. She had nothing to do with the investigation and has misreported facts. This lack of journalistic integrity is incredibly disappointing.
2:36 PM · Feb 14, 2022·Twitter Web App

https://twitter.com/RedgraveRFS/status/1493692405228482563

Redgrave Research Forensic Services
@RedgraveRFS·29m

Identified: Derek and David D’Alton, formerly “The Babes in the Woods” – Stanley Park, Vancouver 1953

Case Update February 15, 2022: https://redgraveresearch.com/2021/05/18/babes-in-the-wood/…

Link to the VPD press release can be found here: https://vpd.ca/news/2022/02/15/vpd-identifies-child-victims-in-historic-cold-case-murder/…

Rest in peace, Derek and David

Indeed~ Ev

There's a Mrs. ED listed as widow and householder in the 1941 BC directory.
A JJC is also listed at that same address. In 1940 JJC was already living there and the other part of the house is listed as vacant. There are no ED or EB listed in BC in 1940.
The following years (1941-1952) Mrs. ED is listed as resident in several different addresses.
I could not make a connection between EB and the D surname. No marriage/obit records.
In 1959 there's a notice of application for change of name of a DB to DD. Assuming DB is the boys' sister, does it mean EB legally married a D or could DB just change her name without a legal document/connection? Sorry for the confusing wording...

MOO JMO

From what I've read online and I can't recall just where, yes, IMO the mother changed her name herself to D'Alton, hence no record of it.

 

[PatLaurel]

I can confirm that a woman did not (and does not, although the law now allows men the same right) need to apply for a legal change of name in British Columbia if the change of surname was due to marriage. One could just begin using the new name; the marriage certificate was accepted as adequate documentation.

If someone wanted to change their name otherwise, they would have to make an application to the courts and a notice would be placed in the newspaper.

Thanks, @Blurgle! I didn't express myself correctly... My question is: what would DB (EB aka ED's daughter) need to change her name to her mother's previous husband's surname?

MOO JMO

 

[PatLaurel]

Indeed~ Ev


From what I've read online and I can't recall just where, yes, IMO the mother changed her name herself to D'Alton, hence no record of it.

So, if not a D, who is her late husband in 1941?
MOO JMO

 

[Satchie]

Thanks, @Blurgle! I didn't express myself correctly... My question is: what would DB (EB aka ED's daughter) need to change her name to her mother's previous husband's surname?

MOO JMO

Just noting, DB would have been 22 in 1959. As an adult you don't need any backup documentation, you can choose any new name you want (as long as not avoiding debt, etc).

Possibly it made some sense, in terms of not wanting to be known by your mother's maiden name and stigma around that. Or possibly there was some conflicting documentation in birth name vs the name that had been used informally, without a legal change.

JMO

 

[Satchie]

So, if not a D, who is her late husband in 1941?
MOO JMO

I wouldn't assume a formal marriage and change of name for EB. That was possibly one of her troubles, an informal arrangement that hadn't been regularized.

Children are usually given the mother's last (possibly maiden) name if the father is 'unknown' (in practical terms, is unavailable or unwilling to sign the birth certificate.) They are usually given the last name of the man who signs the birth certificate.

Being a husband and being a biological father are two separate things that are frequently unconnected to each other...

As well, I don't think authorities were as preoccupied with checking ID, as we are now, I wonder what the actual procedure was.

Just to add, the geneology research was probably focussed just on the biological mother, but there's the whole other element of the fathers' as well. Possibly, they were in Alberta.

JMO

ETA: clarifying a bit between what is the legal procedure vs what are the 'social expectations'.

Acccording to police, she was the orphaned daughter of Russian refugees who fled to then harsh and unpopulated Alberta. Fitting in to middle class North American legal system/expectations might not have been easy for a girl in her early twenties. Also JMO

Another comment: 1940 was the middle of WWII. Many men were going off to war and being killed. I'm sure many women had children born, with the father overseas/or killed, and unable to sign the certificate...just another thing that would have been complicating birth records at the time.