Convictions of Murder Without A Body

[Chilly Willy]

Hans Reiser was convicted without a body or a weapon. Scott Peterson was convicted without the cause of death or a weapon. Wanting to party and a lifestyle free of the person they murdered is motive enough- once again I direct you to Scott Peterson.

There were bodies in the Scott Peterson case as well as strong evidence of premeditation. In this case, without a body, they can't prove for certain that Caylee is dead or that her mother murdered her. They can believe it, just like most of us believe it, but can they prove it in a court of law? If they do charge Casey, what will they charge her with? Accidental death? There's no proof of an accident. Murder 1? No proof of premeditation. Murder 2? No proof of murder at all. It's not going to be an easy case for the prosecutors unless those DNA tests came back showing that a deceased Caylee was definitely in the back of Casey's car.

 

[QuickAttack]

There were bodies in the Scott Peterson case as well as strong evidence of premeditation. In this case, without a body, they can't prove for certain that Caylee is dead or that her mother murdered her. They can believe it, just like most of us believe it, but can they prove it in a court of law? If they do charge Casey, what will they charge her with? Accidental death? There's no proof of an accident. Murder 1? No proof of premeditation. Murder 2? No proof of murder at all. It's not going to be an easy case for the prosecutors unless those DNA tests came back showing that a deceased Caylee was definitely in the back of Casey's car.

Since we're not privy to the info that LE has in their hands right now, I'd say that we can do nothing but speculate on what happened and the charges that will follow.

Where you say there's no proof--there actually may be. It's just that we don't know about it yet.

I don't think that this will be an easy case at all for the prosecutors.

 

[Chilly Willy]

Since we're not privy to the info that LE has in their hands right now, I'd say that we can do nothing but speculate on what happened and the charges that will follow.

Where you say there's no proof--there actually may be. It's just that we don't know about it yet.

I don't think that this will be an easy case at all for the prosecutors.

True, there may very well be evidence that we don't know about but it must not be overwhelming since no charges have been filed yet.

 

[LinasK]

True, there may very well be evidence that we don't know about but it must not be overwhelming since no charges have been filed yet.

I'd think the stains and the hair? IIRC that were found in the car/trunk are evidence. And you have the cadaver dog hits...

 

[LI_Mom]

IMO, if the forensic tests come back saying Caylee's hair was in the trunk PLUS there was a DEAD BODY in the trunk PLUS the cadaver dogs hit on TWO spots PLUS you have Casey out lying & partying like she's on some happy vacation.... it might be very hard for the defense to convince people that Caylee might still be alive.

Then you have Lee telling Casey that EVERYTHING she has told him has been a lie....

Put the GPs on the witness stand for the defense & let them start talking about pizza & dangerous kidnappers & "Mother of the Year Casey" & she will probably be pretty easy to convict without a body.

Frankly, I wonder if one of Casey's friends has already given LE some good info that makes them believe Caylee's body won't ever be found.... why else is there hardly any searching for her remains?

I think her friends have been cooperating w/ LE from the beginning..... they're probably disgusted with her for dragging them & the whole crowd into the spotlight.

 

[txsvicki]

There's a Lubbock,Texas case, Scott Dunn. His body has never been found but his girlfriend and a male friend of hers were charged with murder. They said in Texas there has to be body, so Dunn's dad eventually went to the Vidoq society. They went in and found a large blood stain under a rigged piece of carpeting. It was proven to the DA that the blood was biological, part of the body, and too much loss to sustain life. If the Dad hadn't gotten others involved the murderers would probably still be free.

 

[panthera]

There's a Lubbock,Texas case, Scott Dunn. His body has never been found but his girlfriend and a male friend of hers were charged with murder. They said in Texas there has to be body, so Dunn's dad eventually went to the Vidoq society. They went in and found a large blood stain under a rigged piece of carpeting. It was proven to the DA that the blood was biological, part of the body, and too much loss to sustain life. If the Dad hadn't gotten others involved the murderers would probably still be free.

The Dunn case sounds very interesting! There's another one in California where the ex-husband is set to stand trial for murder with special circumstances (financial gain) even though the body hasn't been found. Her name is Debbie Hawk and she went missing 2 yrs. ago. Her van was found with blood in it and there's also blood in her house.

http://www.cbs47.tv/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=e520b488-3782-4f5b-91d3-e189cec35c79

 

[headndownstream]

We have a case in Ohio (30 miles from my house) where there was a conviction without a body, anyone know others would like to hope there is a chance if Caylee isn't found alive that Casey will pay.

Facts

Justice For Vince

Web Sleuth

Hi, I live in Ohio and wonder if it's the same case I remember? Near Tusc. Co.? A long time ago. I believe one of the first of it's kind. "I remember my husband saying you can't convict without a body!" But they did.

 

[ShouldBWorking]

Hi, I live in Ohio and wonder if it's the same case I remember? Near Tusc. Co.? A long time ago. I believe one of the first of it's kind. "I remember my husband saying you can't convict without a body!" But they did.

not sure it's the same, Carrie was from Blanchester and her mom has fought a good fight to get the conviction, they never found her or her car, lots of rumors, crazy rumors

 

[SeriouslySearching]

There is a website which lists cases of trials without bodies. I will have to try to find it again. There are many, many cases which are prosecuted without and won.

 

[JBean]

IMO, if this evidence is confirmed, then there is more than enough evidence to convict without a body.

 

[LinasK]

There were bodies in the Scott Peterson case as well as strong evidence of premeditation. In this case, without a body, they can't prove for certain that Caylee is dead or that her mother murdered her. They can believe it, just like most of us believe it, but can they prove it in a court of law? If they do charge Casey, what will they charge her with? Accidental death? There's no proof of an accident. Murder 1? No proof of premeditation. Murder 2? No proof of murder at all. It's not going to be an easy case for the prosecutors unless those DNA tests came back showing that a deceased Caylee was definitely in the back of Casey's car.

Ummm, yeah they can. They now have proof of a body decomposition in the trunk of her car and evidence of Caylee's hair in it. Accidental deaths are charged as some form of manslaughter. Involuntary manslaughter??? Prosecutors who read here, help me out!:truce:

 

[JBean]

Ummm, yeah they can. They now have proof of a body decomposition in the trunk of her car and evidence of Caylee's hair in it. Accidental deaths are charged as some form of manslaughter. Involuntary manslaughter??? Prosecutors who read here, help me out!:truce:

that was a post before today's reports just FYI.

 

[maskedwoman]

But convicted of what? If the "sources" are correct, LE is leaning toward accidental death as a possibility. It's possible that Casey wouldn't even do jail time for that.

I think it's a poker play. "Tell us it was an accident and where the body is and we won't hold those statements against you." But, maybe they already have a lot of evidence they think points toward something deliberate. They could still charge her for murder if they have other evidence without breaking their deal with Baez.

 

[okok]

 

[ShouldBWorking]

not very tasteful, this is a child we are talking about-

 

[fran]

Perry March:
http://www.wsmv.com/news/9648572/detail.html
Prosecutors Seek Conviction Without Body, DNA Evidence


http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2008/08/117_29068.html
Murder Conviction Given Without Victim's Body


Even in England
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2562195.stm
Thursday, 19 December, 2002, 11:31 GMT
Proving murder without a body


http://www.sptimes.com/2002/02/24/Hernando/No_body_makes_murder_.shtml
No body makes murder tough sell


http://newsok.com/article/3154296/1193109366
Murder conviction still possible without body

>>>>snip>>>>>>
was mistaken on this point, as many others have been. The law does not require a corpse but rather a corpus delicti, or "the body of evidence that establishes the crime has taken place.”


http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-63809220.html
MURDER CONVICTION WITHOUT BODY? IT HAPPENED HERE AFTER WIFE VANISHED


This was just this April in California.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/04/reiser-juror-de.html
Juror: Hans Reiser Planned the Murder, 'Thought It Out'


http://www.sptimes.com/2002/02/24/Hernando/No_body_makes_murder_.shtml
No body makes murder tough sell

 

[okok]

not very tasteful, this is a child we are talking about-

No joke...I know it is a child and guess what?

Tell that to the mother of the missing child...not me. :furious:

 

[SleuthyGal]

I think they can reasonably infer that Caylee is dead based on the decomp fluids + DNA + decomp smell/air and other analysis of what was in the trunk, plus eyewitness testimony about the smell in the car.

The big question I think is what can they charge her with: involuntary manslaughter, or manslaughter, or one of the murder charges (3 or 2). Murder 1 will be challenging but maybe not impossible.

 

[EvaInCA]

I'm wondering about this child neglect charge she is facing. She is charged with neglect (among other things) and say they DON'T find Caylee's body (before she goes to trial). Can anybody tell me if say she goes to trial and they find her guilty, she gets some jail time and THEN they find Caylee. It would be hard pressed for someone to prove HOW she died and when, let alone it was Casey. But hypothetically speaking let's say they find Caylee's body and she died of something like blunt force trauma.

Casey can't be charged with anything or can she? Double Jeopardy or no?

What if as of today Casey invoked her right to a speedy trial. (I mean, it COULD happen, especially if she KNOWS the possibility of finding Caylee's body is pretty remote) She can cop to the child neglect, and the other charges (because they are relatively minor charges compared to murder) plead guilty and take a sentence?

I was reading up on the US Constitution and I hit the part about a person's right to a speedy trial that started me thinking about how it applies to Casey.

US Supreme Court Center > US Constitution > 6th Amendment > Right to a Speedy and Public Trial
The reason I'm asking is my cousin was charged with Assault with a Deadly weapon 3rd degree in Los Angeles. (He got into it with a bouncer at a club out in the parking lot and picked up a rope divider pole and knocked the bouncer out.)
He was arrested and bonded out, on his court date the bouncer and him were in court, and my cousin's attorney said he would plead guilty if the bouncer guy would agree no charges would come up later saying what my cousin did caused any future problems. Bouncer agrees. He plead guilty to the charge, got 3 months and a 1500 dollar fine. He did a month and 1/2 and he was done.

The bouncer guy started having seizures 18 months after this, and I know this because he was going out with a girl my cousin used to date. She told my cousin the bouncer said it was because he got hit with a pole by my cousin. My cousin told him, "what are you going to do, SUE ME?"

It couldn't happen. My cousin's attorney told him that. Now that was 6 years ago. Can Casey and JB do something to this effect here with these charges??

Thanks