FL - Chad Oulson, 43, killed in Wesley Chapel theater shooting, 13 Jan 2014 *Former LE arrest*

[BeckyF]

I want to hear from a couple of the jurors. I just have to know if it was something they saw in the the video that convinced them or the video and what else??

 

[turaj]

If you listened to the media interview last night the def. team held before they went to party...they indicated that Jennifer Shaw is getting married tomorrow (today) and now it will be so much better. I don't know about most women but after 8 years and knowing that this trial was coming up these weeks and judge made it very clear about how long it would go etc. would you plan a wedding for a weekend when under normal circumstances your father is either waiting for the verdict or could have just been found guilty and taken to prison.? Jennifer must have been VERY sure of the outcome and timing to plan this. I know some will think this not a big deal but it is odd and now he is available to walk her down the aisle. This whole deal smells and seemed like the timing as well as the outcome predetermined.

 

[fred&edna]

CR kept poking the bear and then is surprised at Chad’s reaction. Move your seat, old man. I missed the testimony of the manager…what was his response to CR when he went out to complain? Did he just tell him to return to his seat??

Just FYI. I'm not replying to your post specifically, I'm simply just using the word you chose (bear) to ask questions.

I've never quite understood why Oulsen was the "bear" with his initial response. And, I've never quite understood why he didn't simply respond with something like, "Oh, I'm sorry... I was on the phone due to an emergency". Did Reeves "deserve" the reply he got from Oulsen because Reeves didn't ask as politely as possible?

 

[turaj]

Just FYI. I'm not replying to your post specifically, I'm simply just using the word you chose (bear) to ask questions.

I've never quite understood why Oulsen was the "bear" with his initial response. And, I've never quite understood why he didn't simply respond with something like, "Oh, I'm sorry... I was on the phone due to an emergency". Did Reeves "deserve" the reply he got from Oulsen because Reeves didn't ask as politely as possible?

He was a rude cocky guy who should have just put the phone away. If CR was so bothered by it just put it away or move. No question or dispute on that but CR is a big boy and has heard far worse...again if it was so devastating just move. His wife asked him to do just that but I don't think CR often listened to Viv.

 

[ilovewings]

Though I admit that Florida can deliver some strange self defense verdicts (Trayvon Martin, this case), Florida juries also rejected the self defense claims of the "Parking Lot vigilante" and "Loud Music" shooters.
Florida 'Loud Music' Shooter Michael Dunn Gets Life In Prison
Florida Man Who Shot And Killed A Black Man Over Parking Dispute Gets 20 Years

A Florida prosecutor is also pursuing murder charges against a creatively manipulative tow truck owner citing his uhmm...."bidness" practices constituted "bait" that led to a contrived self defense claim:
Florida tow truck owner shoots, kills driver in tow yard brawl, deputies say

In the end, I think though Florida quirkiness was a factor in the verdict, attorney skill was a larger factor. I have a suspicion that the defense hired a defensive "A team"- though I have no idea where he got the funds for that.

This defensive "A team" then went up against competent, but "Ordinary Joe" prosecutors and beat them in every inning from motions, to juror selection to trial arguments.

In all fairness I think you have to look at the quality of the prosecution in these cases.

Though I admit that Florida can deliver some strange self defense verdicts (Trayvon Martin, this case), Florida juries also rejected the self defense claims of the "Parking Lot vigilante" and "Loud Music" shooters.
Florida 'Loud Music' Shooter Michael Dunn Gets Life In Prison
Florida Man Who Shot And Killed A Black Man Over Parking Dispute Gets 20 Years

A Florida prosecutor is also pursuing murder charges against a creatively manipulative tow truck owner citing his uhmm...."bidness" practices constituted "bait" that led to a contrived self defense claim:
Florida tow truck owner shoots, kills driver in tow yard brawl, deputies say

In the end, I think though Florida quirkiness was a factor in the verdict, attorney skill was a larger factor. I have a suspicion that the defense hired a defensive "A team"- though I have no idea where he got the funds for that.

This defensive "A team" then went up against competent, but "Ordinary Joe" prosecutors and beat them in every inning from motions, to juror selection to trial arguments.

IMO you cannot overlook the quality of the prosecution in these cases. For example, the prosecution in the Trayvon Martin case was so bad, it was stunning. I watched every minute of that trial. Zimmerman's attorney (Mark somebody or other) was on top of it: the prosecution was so lacking-- there are so many examples: their star witness was a disaster and they did nothing to mitigate the disaster she was: they never objected when they should have. There are just so many examples, I cannot remember them now because it has been so long ago. I was not shocked at the outcome of that trial. Then there was the Casey Anthony trial, and while I cannot understand her being acquitted, you have to admit the case was overcharged. I do not recall there was a definite cause of death: without that, how could they go for the death penalty. Jose Baez got away with bloody murder with respect to putting Casey's dad on trial (thanks to the judge)-- so the Anthony case was a mixture of a bad jury, a questionable prosecution team and a judge who kinda just sat there. I did not watch the Reeves case, but again, it sounds like one prosecutor was good but another was not- that could be a problem, couple that with a judge who sounds questionable, well, you have a recipe for acquittal. Look at the Arbery case. The proscution was awesome- great work and they got the conviction they wanted.

 

[Gardenista]

Here's the interview with Reeves' attorney

2/25/22 Curtis Reeves' Defense Attorneys Speak to Court TV - Court TV

 

[turaj]

Here's the interview with Reeves' attorney

2/25/22 Curtis Reeves' Defense Attorneys Speak to Court TV - Court TV

the going on about the "wedding" was bad...I think given they seem to expect the verdict and that he killed a man...just leave and go high five and celebrate in private. They is no end to the lack of class of that group in my opinion.

 

[Gardenista]

the going on about the "wedding" was bad...I think given they seem to expect the verdict and that he killed a man...just leave and go high five and celebrate in private. They is no end to the lack of class of that group in my opinion.

We see prosecutors do PCs all of the time after they get a favorable verdict against a criminal. According to the jury, that's what happened here.

 

[BeckyF]

I guess in Florida you can be shot and killed for looking like a monster and throwing popcorn at a movie goer.

 

[BeckyF]

the going on about the "wedding" was bad...I think given they seem to expect the verdict and that he killed a man...just leave and go high five and celebrate in private. They is no end to the lack of class of that group in my opinion.

They were following judge’s orders to ‘have a wonderful time.’

 

[turaj]

They were following judge’s orders to ‘have a wonderful time.’

!!!! I am sure she was partying too and bet she is invited to the big wedding today...wonder if media will be there too to see CR walk his lovely daughter down the aisle...guns encouraged at the event.

 

[turaj]

Tampa news says"
"
Escobar said his firm spent almost $200,000 in deposition transcripts for the case’s 135 witnesses.

“I would venture to say that this is the largest self-defense case ever in Florida,” he said.

It was the highest-profile case Escobar’s firm has handled, he said. Reeves also is set for an exclusive interview with Good Morning America.'

AND also about Nicole
"Grimaldi settled a civil case against Reeves, on behalf of Nicole, in 2015. The details of the settlement are confidential. Last January, another civil settlement was reached against the theater."

i thought the civil was yet to come. Boy I hope she wiped him out combined with the legal fees however he has been telling media he and Viv are set to enjoy their Golden Years and do lots of traveling etc. Hum...thought he was so frail. What a joke and shame on Good Morning America for giving him air time. Won't be watching.

 

[ContentHomebody]

My first step into this thread but I have been watching the trial all along on Court TV. I wondered myself about CR's wife and also kids, his family - I think he most likely ruled a household with an iron fist. I do believe he was used to giving orders and those orders being obeyed. The testimony about his son "ordering" someone seemed to be a chip off the old block.

I watched until late afternoon yesterday fully believing it would be another day or more to hear a verdict. So hearing (reading about) this today surprised me. I very much thought he would be convicted. A light sentence would not have surprised me but the verdict did.
I too feel that the after comments were insensitive. Where was the victim in any of this? They could have at the very least acknowledged a man died. And who cares that he (CR) will get to walk his daughter down the aisle the next day.

 

[Gardenista]

My first step into this thread but I have been watching the trial all along on Court TV. I wondered myself about CR's wife and also kids, his family - I think he most likely ruled a household with an iron fist. I do believe he was used to giving orders and those orders being obeyed. The testimony about his son "ordering" someone seemed to be a chip off the old block.

I watched until late afternoon yesterday fully believing it would be another day or more to hear a verdict. So hearing (reading about) this today surprised me. I very much thought he would be convicted. A light sentence would not have surprised me but the verdict did.
I too feel that the after comments were insensitive. Where was the victim in any of this? They could have at the very least acknowledged a man died. And who cares that he (CR) will get to walk his daughter down the aisle the next day.

The victim is Curtis.

 

[ContentHomebody]

The victim is Curtis.

Yes, Curtis Reeves defendant is who I was referring to.

 

[SeesSeas]

I too am very shocked. I don't get it at all.

I do have a question if anyone knows. I thought they had to decide NG/G on the 2nd degree charge as well as a Manslaughter charge? I thought the jury had to decide his guilt on both of those charges? Did I miss something somewhere?

moo/imo/etc.

Jury was to "check only one" finding as to each count.
Below is the format for the verdict form, and it's what I recall hearing as the judge read the jury instructions - including the errors she stumbled over that still needed correction regarding 'a' and 'b' sections:
http://www.floridalawweekly.com/forms/sc19-1806.pdf
Supreme Court of Florida
____________
No. SC19-1806
____________
IN RE: STANDARD JURY INSTRUCTIONS IN CRIMINAL CASES—
REPORT 2019-11.
February 27, 2020
Page 6:
Verdict form for multiple counts, single defendant.
We, the jury, find as follows, as to Count I of the charge: (check only one as to this count)
___a. The defendant is guilty of (crime charged).
___b. The defendant is guilty of (a lesser included offense).
___c. The defendant is not guilty.
We, the jury, find as follows, as to Count II of the charge: (check only one as to this count)
___a. The defendant is guilty of (crime charged).
___b. The defendant is not guilty.

 

[turaj]

Jury was to "check only one" finding as to each count.
Below is the format for the verdict form, and it's what I recall hearing as the judge read the jury instructions - including the errors she stumbled over that still needed correction regarding 'a' and 'b' sections:
http://www.floridalawweekly.com/forms/sc19-1806.pdf
Supreme Court of Florida
____________
No. SC19-1806
____________
IN RE: STANDARD JURY INSTRUCTIONS IN CRIMINAL CASES—
REPORT 2019-11.
February 27, 2020
Page 6:
Verdict form for multiple counts, single defendant.
We, the jury, find as follows, as to Count I of the charge: (check only one as to this count)
___a. The defendant is guilty of (crime charged).
___b. The defendant is guilty of (a lesser included offense).
___c. The defendant is not guilty.
We, the jury, find as follows, as to Count II of the charge: (check only one as to this count)
___a. The defendant is guilty of (crime charged).
___b. The defendant is not guilty.

At minimum they should have checked b under count 1. Now I get why nothing said.

 

[SeesSeas]

The jury has decided that Curtis was the victim and Chad was his assailant.

Yes, Chad physically attacked Curtis, and (per defense attorney) Curtis was victim of:
Aggravated Battery
Felony Battery on Person 65 years of age or older
Robbery

Defense Attorney:
Aggravated Battery
Felony Battery on Person 65 years of age or older
Robbery
FL v. Curtis Reeves Trial Day 4 - Defense Motion For Acquittal
Feb 17, 2022

 

[AC's Grandma]

i would love to get the demographics of the jury on this one. My opinion was that if some are older (over 60) and I think they were ...the age defense would not fly...I am older and can't imagine thinking I have any more right to do what CR did when I could have moved seats or brought a manager in. Apparently the jury had empathy and "sympathy" for this guy just like the instructions say not to. Then you have to think in that short period of time they ate dinner (judge had said we will provide dinner) chose a foreperson and discussed the case. They had to be 100% in agreement to get the paperwork etc. done and be out of there that quick. Someone elsewhere made a comment that this community is behind CR and much has to do with the "blue wall" or some such reference to his police background. I think the judge is right there with him...they almost treated him differently as he had been with the Tampa PD. A reasonable person (at least my opinion) is all that police background would have put him in a better spot to diffuse the situation and was the reason I was a solid Guilty.

As someone who lives in this area the community is not behind CR and are quite angry and upset that he was found not guilty. The blame is placed on the judge.
JMO and all that.

 

[turaj]

As someone who lives in this area the community is not behind CR and are quite angry and upset that he was found not guilty. The blame is placed on the judge.
JMO and all that.

Thank you for stating that...makes me feel better...would agree the judge sure did not do a good job of being fair....I had some hope even with all the pro defense rulings because to me it seemed like such a simple case.