sissi
Former Member
Good Job Ivy 
Flippy Esso: what do we know?
- Thread starter Toth
- Start date
I'm a little behind here and don't have the time or inclination to read this entire thread...page one was enough...my sides hurt from laughing.
But to give Toth credit, I ask the following questions (that may already have been answered)...
Why did Patsy write the note for Flippy??? or was Patsy Flippy???
Did she paint any of those rooms herself??? with the broken paintbrush???
And, of course, the biggest question of all...was it really SMART to let Flippy into their home???
There does that help you at all Toth? I think they might have been missing your point. Yes? But never fear, Twi caught ya, in almost the first sentence of the first post. And I thought interesting, although perhaps a little dangerous, spin.
But to give Toth credit, I ask the following questions (that may already have been answered)...
Why did Patsy write the note for Flippy??? or was Patsy Flippy???
Did she paint any of those rooms herself??? with the broken paintbrush???
And, of course, the biggest question of all...was it really SMART to let Flippy into their home???
There does that help you at all Toth? I think they might have been missing your point. Yes? But never fear, Twi caught ya, in almost the first sentence of the first post. And I thought interesting, although perhaps a little dangerous, spin.
sissi
Former Member
This one is really spooky looking. I wonder if any of these stayed at the "church mission".
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/sheriff/most_wanted/wesch.htm
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/sheriff/most_wanted/wesch.htm
Ivy
Inactive
sissi, he looks spooky, all right. Probably so spooky that JonBenet would have been terrified of him and screamed when she awoke and saw him by her bed. He certainly doesn't look like the kind of intruder JonBenet would snack on pineapple with.
Not all bad people look spooky, sissi. The Green River killer looks as normal as the Ramseys do.
Not all bad people look spooky, sissi. The Green River killer looks as normal as the Ramseys do.
Toth
Inactive
Restrained by the court from exercising the privileges granted by the driver's license; license is not suspended or revoked but court forbids the licensee to drive.
turns out that a "nickname" for him actually is "Bad(censored)".
sissi
Former Member
Well now Toth,that is interesting! How DID you find this information?
Ivy I believe a stun gun was used,therefore she could not scream.
IMO
Ivy I believe a stun gun was used,therefore she could not scream.
IMO
Ivy
Inactive
sissi, if a stun gun was used, I don't think she'd be able to eat pineapple either.
The Intruder was quite nimble to have carried the dead weight of a stunned 6-year-old, plus a stun gun and a Maglite down those tricky stairs, wasn't he? And he did it without the stairs creaking and waking anyone. He was also able to take the pineapple out of the fridge without alerting Burke, who said he could hear the fridge door open and close from his room whenever someone got a snack. Though JonBenet was unconscious or close to it, the Intruder managed to force pineapple down her slack throat without blocking her windpipe and causing her to die right there on the spot.
Amazing.
The Intruder was quite nimble to have carried the dead weight of a stunned 6-year-old, plus a stun gun and a Maglite down those tricky stairs, wasn't he? And he did it without the stairs creaking and waking anyone. He was also able to take the pineapple out of the fridge without alerting Burke, who said he could hear the fridge door open and close from his room whenever someone got a snack. Though JonBenet was unconscious or close to it, the Intruder managed to force pineapple down her slack throat without blocking her windpipe and causing her to die right there on the spot.
Amazing.
Toth
Inactive
Stun gun use appears to have been rather minimal, perhaps more to satisfy curiosity. If the tape has one of the 'missing' burn marks on it, then she had her mouth taped and would not have been likely to have screamed at the time anyway.
sissi
Former Member
That is a huge question Ivy, does the pineapple really play into this murder? Why would a killer feed Jonbenet pineapple ,and wait at least a few hours to kill her. Remember ,the pineapple was not in her stomach contents,it was well on it's way toward digestion. It comfortably fits into what one would expect the time of digestion to be ,had she eaten it at the White's and been murdered before 1a.m..
Another idea would be to have a lure person,and if there were a lure person then it would point more toward a "hit",than a murder by a crazed killer acting alone. This could explain a snack before being lured to the basement to meet her killer,or maybe she was lured,given a snack,taken out of the home,killed and returned to that dank basement room. It's difficult to make sense of the time between eating pineapple and her death.
IMO JMO
Another idea would be to have a lure person,and if there were a lure person then it would point more toward a "hit",than a murder by a crazed killer acting alone. This could explain a snack before being lured to the basement to meet her killer,or maybe she was lured,given a snack,taken out of the home,killed and returned to that dank basement room. It's difficult to make sense of the time between eating pineapple and her death.
IMO JMO
Ivy
Inactive
I think the pineapple is very important, sissi. At autopsy, partially digested pineapple was found in JonBenet's upper intestinal tract, and that means she had probably eaten it a couple of hours or so before she died. John and Patsy claim neither of them gave her pineapple that night after returning from the Whites'. Burke said he didn't remember if JonBenet had eaten pineapple that night.
Apparently, no pineapple was available at the Whites'. If there had been, I'm sure there would be more pro-Ramsey Internet sources than you could shake a stick at proclaiming it. There was pineapple at the Ramseys', and that must have been the pineapple JonBenet ate the night she died. If an Intruder gave her the pineapple, he kept her alive for a couple hours or so afterward right there in the house, before killing her. Why? Why didn't he just take her and run? If he had, he might have obtained the $118,000 ransom. He also might have been able to obtain the money if he'd at least taken her body. It doesn't make sense that he would leave the note AND her body.
I believe the Intruder is a myth. There was no Intruder. There were only four people in the Ramseys' house that night: John, Patsy, Burke and JonBenet, and one of the first three killed the fourth.
Apparently, no pineapple was available at the Whites'. If there had been, I'm sure there would be more pro-Ramsey Internet sources than you could shake a stick at proclaiming it. There was pineapple at the Ramseys', and that must have been the pineapple JonBenet ate the night she died. If an Intruder gave her the pineapple, he kept her alive for a couple hours or so afterward right there in the house, before killing her. Why? Why didn't he just take her and run? If he had, he might have obtained the $118,000 ransom. He also might have been able to obtain the money if he'd at least taken her body. It doesn't make sense that he would leave the note AND her body.
I believe the Intruder is a myth. There was no Intruder. There were only four people in the Ramseys' house that night: John, Patsy, Burke and JonBenet, and one of the first three killed the fourth.
A
ajt400
Guest
It's called a point, Ivy, and just in case you didn't see the one I was making it was that both sides are not willing to open up their minds to suggestions or other suspects. What I don't get is why would a whole crew of people just decide to turn their backs on the true killers of a child just for money or fame or whatever else. Is anything like this in any of their pasts? Has DA Hunter ever backed down on such a "sure" conviction before? Have any of the investigators involved (the ones that actually had been involved in a murder investigation before) ever forgone their vow to uphold justice before?
Also, why would an intruder leave the body and the note inside the house?
I ask you the same of the Ramsey's. If they were so criminally aware to stage not one but two scenarios, why would they screw up so much as to leave her body in the house after writing a ransom note that I am sure they had to take their time, considering the fact that they were trying to alter or disguise the handwriting.
Either way you look at the whole thing, it just doesn't add up.
:dontknow:
Blazeboy3
Inactive
Twilight...in deed you speak!--Love your humor/post...muchly appreciated by me/mine FWIW: And, of course, the biggest question of all...was it really SMART to let Flippy into their home??? NOT==no by me!!! IMHO Patsy was Flippy!!!
Blazeboy3
Inactive
I'm going to "spill my beans for now-in a nice way!"; I'll be back later...!!!
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/news/press_releases/2003/keenan040703.htm
John and Patricia Ramsey have been the focus of an exhaustive investigation with regard to the murder of their daughter, JonBenet, for more than six years. People charged with a crime are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty in court. Since Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey have not even been charged, much less convicted, they must be presumed innocent and must be treated accordingly.
BUT LIKE HER BOOK (SEE URL BELOW) STATS: THIS IS MUCH BIGGER THAN US(WE!)! ... AS PRINTED/STATED IN HER BOOK!~!
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/22cbook.html
DENVER Jane Gray Stobie, a former employee of Access Graphics, says she has spoken with the ghost of JonBenét Ramsey for the past year and the little girl is saying who killed her.
Stobie worked with JonBenét's father, John Ramsey, at Access Graphics in Boulder from 1990 to 1994. On Wednesday, she announced the release of her new book, "JonBenét's Gift: A Miracle for the Millennium."
The book chronicles the "life and afterlife" of the little girl and casts suspicion on her parents. It also touches on the issue of child abuse. Stobie, who holds a master's degree in business, says she is a "spiritual medium" for the dead.
JonBenét "was looking for someone to transfer information," Stobie said Thursday at her home in Denver.
"Why did they do this to me and leave me all alone?" JonBenét once said, according to a passage in Stobie's book. "I am just a little girl and want to be loved."
Stobie also said JonBenét spends much of her time at Chautauqua Park in Boulder and once led her there, asking her to "listen to the butterflies."
JonBenét's "gift," Stobie says, is the slain child's proof that there is life after death and that it is possible to heal after even such a heinous crime.
http://www.co.boulder.co.us/news/press_releases/2003/keenan040703.htm
John and Patricia Ramsey have been the focus of an exhaustive investigation with regard to the murder of their daughter, JonBenet, for more than six years. People charged with a crime are presumed to be innocent until proven guilty in court. Since Mr. and Mrs. Ramsey have not even been charged, much less convicted, they must be presumed innocent and must be treated accordingly.
BUT LIKE HER BOOK (SEE URL BELOW) STATS: THIS IS MUCH BIGGER THAN US(WE!)! ... AS PRINTED/STATED IN HER BOOK!~!
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/22cbook.html
DENVER Jane Gray Stobie, a former employee of Access Graphics, says she has spoken with the ghost of JonBenét Ramsey for the past year and the little girl is saying who killed her.
Stobie worked with JonBenét's father, John Ramsey, at Access Graphics in Boulder from 1990 to 1994. On Wednesday, she announced the release of her new book, "JonBenét's Gift: A Miracle for the Millennium."
The book chronicles the "life and afterlife" of the little girl and casts suspicion on her parents. It also touches on the issue of child abuse. Stobie, who holds a master's degree in business, says she is a "spiritual medium" for the dead.
JonBenét "was looking for someone to transfer information," Stobie said Thursday at her home in Denver.
"Why did they do this to me and leave me all alone?" JonBenét once said, according to a passage in Stobie's book. "I am just a little girl and want to be loved."
Stobie also said JonBenét spends much of her time at Chautauqua Park in Boulder and once led her there, asking her to "listen to the butterflies."
JonBenét's "gift," Stobie says, is the slain child's proof that there is life after death and that it is possible to heal after even such a heinous crime.
Blazeboy3
Inactive
I found this book VERY HARD TO READ/COMPELLING INFO BEYOND BELIEF...that's why it was so hard to read!!!...
Toth
Inactive
Psychics? I wonder if the nutcases will ever just drift off into obscurity or go after some other obsession.
Nehemiah
Well-Known Member
Did anyone ever turn up any info on Flippy?
M
Maxi
Guest
Nutcases? This case has a cast of characters no novelist would dare put in a novel. How man other cases involve child beauty queens, a Santa who carves the names of dead children on a harp, a photographer caught running down the street naked proclaiming he didn't kill the victim, etc. etc.
Don't forget Patsy herself consulted a psychic, much to the disapproval of the conservative Christian community. And she had all kinds of signs and premonitions before JBR's murder, although she didn't recognize them as such at the time. .
Don't forget Patsy herself consulted a psychic, much to the disapproval of the conservative Christian community. And she had all kinds of signs and premonitions before JBR's murder, although she didn't recognize them as such at the time. .
Jayelles
New Member
Re the not removing the body - that is not something that I think exonerates the Ramseys.
If there was a tragic accident and JonBenet was fatally injured, there would undoubtedly be a period of panic during which nobody would know what to do. Time would be marching on and they might consider a number of alternatives - including removing the body from the house. Remember there is some evidence to suggest she was put inside the suitcase? Also, regarding the 'stungun' marks - one of the experts suggested they may have been made by snappers? Well, I have a samsonite case and inside it there are silky pockets which attach by snapper. Perhaps she was placed inside the suitcase ready to be removed from the house. Except the snow had started to fall. Tyre tracks in the snow/noise of car engine would be a dead giveaway. It would also be a bit obvious to carry a body out of the house on foot.
So onto Plan B. Make it look like an intruder did it. Except there HAS to be evidence of an intruder. DNA would be best - but how to obtain it? I suppose it's possible that the DNA could have been staged by running JonBenet's fingernails through (say) a shaving brush which had been left by a visitor, and doing the same on her genitals - could this explain the animal hair? Shaving brushes are made from beaver hairs.
The problem with this is that DNA cannot be seen by the naked eye. It's not enough. There has to be evidence of a break-in and above all else - a motive. Hence the staging with the ransom note and the sexiual assault.
sissi
Former Member
Maybe she was brought back in the suitcase?
Maxi's right,how many nutcases were surrounding this child,if the story were fiction it would be said the author went overboard characterizing the players.
A question to Toth.. Did this person,Flippy,leave Boulder at the time of the murder and return after 6 yrs?
Maxi's right,how many nutcases were surrounding this child,if the story were fiction it would be said the author went overboard characterizing the players.
A question to Toth.. Did this person,Flippy,leave Boulder at the time of the murder and return after 6 yrs?
Ivy
Inactive
Jayelles, great post. I've always thought it a strong possibility that the Rs had initially planned to remove JonBenet's body from the house and had thought of using the suitcase to do so. I agreed with the those who thought clothing snappers might have made the so-called stun gun marks, but it hadn't occurred to me that the marks might have been made by snappers that were part of the interior of the suitcase. I wonder if investigators checked the suitcase to see if it had snappers...and if it did, whether they tried to determine if the snappers could have made the marks.
Good going, Jayelles. :bigthumb:
Good going, Jayelles. :bigthumb: