GA GA - Atlanta, WhtMale 20-30, 178UMGA, hit by car on I-75, Virgo tattoo, Jul'95 - Steven Shelton

[178UMGA]

Has anyone suggested Norman Basil Pappas?

Norman Basil Pappas – The Charley Project

charleyproject.org

Something about him looks similar to the UID to me. There are no color photos of him or really any info other than he went missing. He is bit shorter than our UID and has hazel rather than light brown eyes, but he's a Virgo.

i mean they look similar, but their eyes just aren't the same. they don't have the same ears. do we know if Pappas had any tattoos?

 

[178UMGA]

I doubt this case will move in any way unless there is DNA. The profile says DNA is available, so maybe @othram may have suggestions on proceeding with this case.

trust me, ill get an answer. my best bet is brian Vargo and they have sent 178UMGA's DNA to compare to vargos. he's gotta have a name- there's no way he's gonna go UID forever.

 

[graycats83]

i mean they look similar, but their eyes just aren't the same. they don't have the same ears. do we know if Pappas had any tattoos?

No mention of tattoos, but one of the sites said that the UID's tattoos looked recent. He could have gotten them after he went missing.

 

[178UMGA]

No mention of tattoos, but one of the sites said that the UID's tattoos looked recent. He could have gotten them after he went missing.

ill ask the person who valient told me could help. ill bring up Pappas to him

 

[P. Kitty]

I still haven't heard anything back from Doe Network about Brian or Virgo Doe. It's been over a month, so it's not looking too promising to me. I will update, however, if I hear anything.

 

[Valiant]

There is no guarantee anyone is looking for a missing person, so you may never find a missing person report to correspond to a doe. It's a sad fact, but people can disappear and due to estranged relationships they are never reported missing.

 

[178UMGA]

There is no guarantee anyone is looking for a missing person, so you may never find a missing person report to correspond to a doe. It's a sad fact, but people can disappear and due to estranged relationships they are never reported missing.

alrighty. ill keep an eye out for things i can do.

 

[carbuff]

I still haven't heard anything back from Doe Network about Brian or Virgo Doe. It's been over a month, so it's not looking too promising to me. I will update, however, if I hear anything.

It can take months or even years. If it appears to be a match on first look they'll have to do a bunch of confirmation, and then notify next of kin. Sometimes we never hear; if there's no issue of a crime and the family doesn't want information released, LE usually respects that.

 

[178UMGA]

It can take months or even years. If it appears to be a match on first look they'll have to do a bunch of confirmation, and then notify next of kin. Sometimes we never hear; if there's no issue of a crime and the family doesn't want information released, LE usually respects that.

im holding onto hope that its brian- but the timelines dont seem to match up unless our doe was in his late 30's or early 40's. i think thats plausible, though. also- i know people can change especially into adulthood but they just dont seem the same in style. brian vargo seemed to be preppy and clean from any tattoos but our doe had possible gang-related tattoos. just an observation.

 

[carbuff]

im holding onto hope that its brian- but the timelines dont seem to match up unless our doe was in his late 30's or early 40's. i think thats plausible, though. also- i know people can change especially into adulthood but they just dont seem the same in style. brian vargo seemed to be preppy and clean from any tattoos but our doe had possible gang-related tattoos. just an observation.

I don't find it inherently implausible. There are some interesting similarities. Age estimates are frequently off, and I think that many years on the road might have changed him a lot.

 

[178UMGA]

I don't find it inherently implausible. There are some interesting similarities. Age estimates are frequently off, and I think that many years on the road might have changed him a lot.

yeah, i know from experiencing homelessness as a child that it sends you into a spiral. hopping from place to place must have taken a toll on him. i cant stop thinking about what his mental health would have been like. id really assume that he was lost in the first place. it also seems like for the longest time nobody was really looking for him. im gonna do some emailing which usually helps. shout out to Christopher harris from the fulton county police department who was helpful and kind. if im gonna be honest i never thought this man was between 20-30. he looked exhausted in all the renderings and from the state of his body when found he looked like he had taken some damage.

 

[CCJD]

if im gonna be honest i never thought this man was between 20-30. he looked exhausted in all the renderings and from the state of his body when found he looked like he had taken some damage.

RS&BBM

Maybe I'm missing something but all of what renderings? There's the one postmortem pic of his head and the 2 sketches of his face on DoeNetwork. Are there other images of his face that I'm just not aware of?

178UMGA

www.doenetwork.org

 

[Hochman]

RS&BBM

Maybe I'm missing something but all of what renderings? There's the one postmortem pic of his head and the 2 sketches of his face on DoeNetwork. Are there other images of his face that I'm just not aware of?

178UMGA

www.doenetwork.org

These were the renderings i mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[CCJD]

These were the renderings i mentioned earlier in this thread.

Ah, yes. I did see those. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[178UMGA]

how would i go about searching all records of any rehab centers or mental health facilities? im not even sure if i can do that because of HIPPA laws. is there anyone who is part of law enforcement who can look into that? id do it myself but i have a few more years before i can be certified for anything. im not saying for sure this guy was mentally ill or addicted for sure, thats a theory but nothing can be proven, but it feels extremely right to check that kind of stuff just in case.

 

[subaw0067]

how would i go about searching all records of any rehab centers or mental health facilities? im not even sure if i can do that because of HIPPA laws. is there anyone who is part of law enforcement who can look into that? id do it myself but i have a few more years before i can be certified for anything. im not saying for sure this guy was mentally ill or addicted for sure, thats a theory but nothing can be proven, but it feels extremely right to check that kind of stuff just in case.

I'm not sure even law enforcement can do that; not without a good reason and/or a warrant.

 

[178UMGA]

I'm not sure even law enforcement can do that; not without a good reason and/or a warrant.

i mean he doesnt have a name and has been gone for a while. that could be a reason but i dont know the qualifications for that. would jails/prisons have that same law? i know that today you can look up a county jail and see everyone thats currently incarcerated but i have no idea what that would have been like in 95. i have a feeling he might have been recently released from jail.

 

[subaw0067]

i mean he doesnt have a name and has been gone for a while. that could be a reason but i dont know the qualifications for that. would jails/prisons have that same law? i know that today you can look up a county jail and see everyone thats currently incarcerated but i have no idea what that would have been like in 95. i have a feeling he might have been recently released from jail.

HIPAA protects people, even if that person is deceased without a name. LE would have to have reason to believe that he had been at one particular facility; they can't just ask for a list of names from many facilities. That would be a massive HIPAA violation. If he had been in jail, he should have fingerprints available. If they ran his prints and did not find a match, it's unlikely that he had been incarcerated.

 

[178UMGA]

HIPAA protects people, even if that person is deceased without a name. LE would have to have reason to believe that he had been at one particular facility; they can't just ask for a list of names from many facilities. That would be a massive HIPAA violation. If he had been in jail, he should have fingerprints available. If they ran his prints and did not find a match, it's unlikely that he had been incarcerated.

hm. ill keep that in mind. not exactly sure how that worked. thank you.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

178UMGA

www.doenetwork.org