GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #12

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Sexual history is admissible in a civil case when it's relevant (and not barred by some other objection), as the court found it to be here.

It looks like this plaintiff's case was so flimsy, the judge ordered her to pay $150,000 in costs.
 
Mods, if the John Douglas Mindhunter Forums is off limits, please just remove this -- but, if it's an ok link, here is a place folks can get a little more on the case AgentFrank mentioned (since the judge also on Lauren's case is involved). This one DID happen at Mercer -- and the plot seems to be very, very thick.


you can get some details here and go from there: http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.co...p?t=7345&sid=015db3422f8b4705d536636de5d8d620


ETA: Also beginning to find MSM reports: http://www.11alive.com/life/pets/story.aspx?storyid=113840
 
Good Morning Sleuthers ! It's been pretty slow around here so I have been trying to catch up on what kind of judge we are dealing with here with Judge Brown and stumbled across this nugget that I am not sure I have seen referenced before. Not that I am trying to connect any dots or anything, but I just don't see Judge Brown "appointing himself" to handle this case is doing the prosecution any favors. If Hogue and Buford start into Lauren's background as Swamp Douche Barbie with the Hash Hounds and her membership in that wild young lawyer group in Atlanta , well all I am saying is that they are going to throw as much **** on the wall as they can and hope it sticks. Judge Brown had his surgery this week, at Duke University ,and by all reports it was successful. Not sure when or even if he will be back to adjudicate the case. I have a hunch pretty sure next time we hear or read anything about this case it will be game changing big news http://feministing.com/2008/05/15/georgia_rape_case_dismissed_be/

about what I bolded in your post: AgentFrank, got wrapped up in the other part of your post last night and forgot to ask -- what game-changing news are you expecting ... and any idea when?
 
Good Morning Sleuthers ! It's been pretty slow around here so I have been trying to catch up on what kind of judge we are dealing with here with Judge Brown and stumbled across this nugget that I am not sure I have seen referenced before. Not that I am trying to connect any dots or anything, but I just don't see Judge Brown "appointing himself" to handle this case is doing the prosecution any favors. If Hogue and Buford start into Lauren's background as Swamp Douche Barbie with the Hash Hounds and her membership in that wild young lawyer group in Atlanta , well all I am saying is that they are going to throw as much **** on the wall as they can and hope it sticks. Judge Brown had his surgery this week, at Duke University ,and by all reports it was successful. Not sure when or even if he will be back to adjudicate the case. I have a hunch pretty sure next time we hear or read anything about this case it will be game changing big news http://feministing.com/2008/05/15/georgia_rape_case_dismissed_be/

What I bolded...........I pray that the jury then will have more sense than God gave a billygoat to realize that it does not constitue Murder and dismemberment of some such individual.....................

But to appoint himself........sounds a bit pious ( i gues is the word)...........so what kind of judge is he (judge and jury type?) which could be detrimental to either side??
 
Haven't found it on a site I'm sure I can link yet, but apparently the case we have just been discussing occurred at Mercer University in Macon!!!

??????????????????????? other than Lauren's?????????Please share?????????????
 
Interesting article about Mercer.........Backwoods, you got me websurfing! LOL

http://www.sbstatesman.com/judge-orders-mercer-university-to-turn-over-crime-records786

"Police" at mercer probably arent' real trained police officers. Just guards who collect info, can't solve crimes and probably don't enforce anything. Kind of like the guards who don't ticket those unwarranted parkers in the handicapped parking slots, I have a beef with that since my brother is on oxygen, in a wheelchair and blind.............
 
about what I bolded in your post: AgentFrank, got wrapped up in the other part of your post last night and forgot to ask -- what game-changing news are you expecting ... and any idea when?
Backwoods, I guess my mind often wanders when not a lot is going on, and often times as regards this case to a not very good place. My feeling is since we have had no substantive news about the case lately ,and since Frank Hogue has shown up on the scene, we are about to get some. Same thoughts I have written about before pretty much . There is so much we do not know, so either the DA's office is doing the best job ever of not showing their hand or perhaps they just don't have anything. My thoughts are we will find out pretty soon one way or the other, could be wrong and we may have to wait until trial. Hogue is very good, as is Buford. I am not exactly sure how he interjected himself into the case, if he was first choice, was contacted by Buford or the McDaniel family, but I do know he took a special interest when it became a death penalty case. He is very passionate while Buford is very professional. They make a pretty good team. Lots of things about this case trouble me , did MPD just think when they came upon McD that they had gotten their man to the exclusion of pursuit of any other suspects ? Seems that way to me . Why would an apparently bright (although definitely odd) fellow about to graduate from law school kill and dismember his next door neighbor ? Casey Anthony case has elevated the bar as far as stupid juries are concerned, but if I can't answer those questions I bet this jury wont be able to either, and that equals reasonable doubt. I've rambled enough. Sorry. All thoughts as always JMHO and I welcome anybody's POV that can make me feel better about JusticeforLauren
 
Why would an apparently bright (although definitely odd) fellow about to graduate from law school kill and dismember his next door neighbor ? Casey Anthony case has elevated the bar as far as stupid juries are concerned, but if I can't answer those questions I bet this jury wont be able to either, and that equals reasonable doubt.

Sorry, can't make you feel better. I have the same doubts from the beginning. We can only hope the DNA from the plumbing is really great, if there was some.
 
It is true that the public hasn't been made privy to much evidence. However, for me, there is one very loud "fact" that offsets that lack.

To my knowledge, we still haven't heard anyone for the defense stand up publicly, bang his fist on the table and say, "This man had nothing to do with the murder of LG!"

That makes me think there is some really damning evidence. It makes me think the defense team is playing around with different possible scenarios, and that the jury will be offered some suggestions that admit and explain SD's involvement, but not in the way we'd expect (like the scenarios put forth for CA that ultimately won her freedom).

(For the record, I am still a fence sitter.)
 
It is true that the public hasn't been made privy to much evidence. However, for me, there is one very loud "fact" that offsets that lack.

To my knowledge, we still haven't heard anyone for the defense stand up publicly, bang his fist on the table and say, "This man had nothing to do with the murder of LG!"

That makes me think there is some really damning evidence. It makes me think the defense team is playing around with different possible scenarios, and that the jury will be offered some suggestions that admit and explain SD's involvement, but not in the way we'd expect (like the scenarios put forth for CA that ultimately won her freedom).

(For the record, I am still a fence sitter.)

Adding to what Southern Comfort has pointed out is that no one except his mother has publicly proclaimed his innocence. He obviously has few, if any, good friends. If he does have any, they have not said anything publicly either. The one person that we know of who knew him was the former roommate, and he thinks he probably did it. Haven't heard anything from high school classmates other than the one who said he hissed at people. No one from undergrad days has spoken up for him. I wonder if there is anyone out there who will go on the record speaking in SM's favor. I personally think that Macon LE is that rare police department that has kept his mouth shut in this case. As for me, I have thought him guilty since the "Body" interview. My opinion has always been that LE found things early on to tie him into this horrific murder.
 
About the friends not coming forward...I am not sure how to take it.

Fortunately I have never been in a situation where a close friend or associate (meaning a classmate or coworker that I have a history of interacting closely with even though we may not "hang out") has been accused publicly, so I have never had to make the choice about whether or not to speak out, so all of the following is JMO, MOO, my thought experiment because I have wondered about it a lot in the context of different cases I've followed...like why do some people speak out very frankly and others keep to themselves? Is it differences in personality or what? So here are just some of the things that have been on my mind about why I might not speak out publicly even if I have only good things to say about the accused.

Maybe I don't want to look stupid. We have all seen cases where a person is accused of something heinous, people get in front of the cameras and say, "Oh no, s/he would never do anything like that; s/he's the gentlest/kindest/most honest person." And then when evidence comes out that leaves no reasonable doubt that this supposedly great person did commit the crime, his or her vocal supporters look like they either have been duped or were ignoring evidence that a monster lurked beneath the surface. In reality I think it IS sometimes true that really smart people were deceived by a psychopath, but IMO hindsight is 20/20 and the louder you speak in someone's defense, the more people will throw it in your face if you turn out to have misjudged that person. They will unintentionally overlook the fact that psychopaths are exceptionally skillful at deceit, IMO because it's more bearable for them to think that you are quite stupid than to accept that there are people out there who can fool all of us, no matter how smart we are.

Maybe I don't want to draw public attention to myself, for whatever reason. IMO we have seen cases in which the peripheral characters end up getting almost as much coverage as the main people involved. Obviously if I were involved in something illegal I wouldn't want my face to be put out there on tv or in the papers, even in the local market. And I certainly wouldn't want people from the media trying to dig up on DL on me! But I think that there are more innocuous reasons for wanting to avoid attention too, even if it would be in your opinion for a good cause...eg., I don't have kids, but if I did i might want to protect them from being shown on camera for safety reasons (what, I am paranoid). Maybe I am a public or semi-public figure and my speaking out would be seen as improper in some way. Maybe I just have a lot going on in my life at the moment and I don't want to distract from that.

Or maybe I just don't want to get involved, period. I am not complaining about detectives doing their jobs so don't get me wrong but...unless I was pretty sure I had something vital to add to a case, I wouldn't be too keen on opening myself up as a potential witness of some kind. Heck I might be afraid that I'd say the wrong thing, or say the right thing and it be misinterpreted, and it would end up causing my friend, whom I believe to be innocent and meant to defend, more trouble.

Of course all of this reasoning is based on the assumption that I believe that justice usually works the way it is supposed to, not that my buddy is being railroaded or put away based on corrupt LE or representatives of the justice system. I am also assuming, just for this thought experiment, that I believe the accused person to be a good person, but I'm always open to the possibility that I could be wrong about that. This post turned out to be much longer than I'd planned, so sorry about that, and as I said I have never been in such a position so it's basically a bunch of educated guesses! And not that I am defending McD, because I am not. I don't even know if any of my imaginary scenarios are relevant.
 
??????????????????????? other than Lauren's?????????Please share?????????????


tomkat, you've probably figured out by now that I was speaking of the case AgentFrankLundy had referenced at a site that was strongly questioning Judge Brown's actions in that case, a civil suit charging sexual battery, stemming from an incident that happened at Mercer in 2005

I posted a couple of links for further reading on it -- after digging a bit, I'm not so sure that Brown's action/statements have not been exaggerated/misconstrued on some sites -- all the details are not really clear to me.
 
"Police" at mercer probably arent' real trained police officers. Just guards who collect info, can't solve crimes and probably don't enforce anything. Kind of like the guards who don't ticket those unwarranted parkers in the handicapped parking slots, I have a beef with that since my brother is on oxygen, in a wheelchair and blind.............

bbm: That article is kind of old, I think, and I'm not sure this is still true of the campus police at Mercer -- maybe so, just not sure.

It seems that inaction by campus police was one of the things highlighted in the sexual battery civil case AgentFrank referenced.
 
Backwoods, I guess my mind often wanders when not a lot is going on, and often times as regards this case to a not very good place. My feeling is since we have had no substantive news about the case lately ,and since Frank Hogue has shown up on the scene, we are about to get some. Same thoughts I have written about before pretty much . There is so much we do not know, so either the DA's office is doing the best job ever of not showing their hand or perhaps they just don't have anything. My thoughts are we will find out pretty soon one way or the other, could be wrong and we may have to wait until trial. Hogue is very good, as is Buford. I am not exactly sure how he interjected himself into the case, if he was first choice, was contacted by Buford or the McDaniel family, but I do know he took a special interest when it became a death penalty case. He is very passionate while Buford is very professional. They make a pretty good team. Lots of things about this case trouble me , did MPD just think when they came upon McD that they had gotten their man to the exclusion of pursuit of any other suspects ? Seems that way to me . Why would an apparently bright (although definitely odd) fellow about to graduate from law school kill and dismember his next door neighbor ? Casey Anthony case has elevated the bar as far as stupid juries are concerned, but if I can't answer those questions I bet this jury wont be able to either, and that equals reasonable doubt. I've rambled enough. Sorry. All thoughts as always JMHO and I welcome anybody's POV that can make me feel better about JusticeforLauren

Thanks, AgentFrank -- a very forthright and thoughtful answer, which happens to coincide with many of my own thoughts.

I definitely agree about the Hogue/Buford team -- think SM really could not be any better set with local attorneys than he is with that pairing.

Reading between the lines I'm seeing: Maybe a plea deal coming -- maybe ...something else? Or, as you said, maybe the long road to a trial.

Of course, I have always been on the fence in this case, and still am. If SM did this, I hope the evidence is there for the prosecution. If he did not -- where will it all go then, if the evidence falls through?
 
Sorry, can't make you feel better. I have the same doubts from the beginning. We can only hope the DNA from the plumbing is really great, if there was some.

And my mind keeps going to that refrigerator? Was that a false trail -- kind of hard to believe that, but...maybe? -- or is evidence really there?
 
It is true that the public hasn't been made privy to much evidence. However, for me, there is one very loud "fact" that offsets that lack.

To my knowledge, we still haven't heard anyone for the defense stand up publicly, bang his fist on the table and say, "This man had nothing to do with the murder of LG!"

That makes me think there is some really damning evidence. It makes me think the defense team is playing around with different possible scenarios, and that the jury will be offered some suggestions that admit and explain SD's involvement, but not in the way we'd expect (like the scenarios put forth for CA that ultimately won her freedom).

(For the record, I am still a fence sitter.)

Been right up on that fence with you for quite a while now, southern_comfort.

Your point about the lack of an emphatic proclamation of innocence certainly is an interesting one. I know I've seen that brought up time and again in the media site comments, etc.

With Buford, I've always thought that pre-trial table-banging just might not be his style. He might get to that in front of a jury, not sure. Hogue now -- I'm not sure about him. Maybe he is about to start fist-banging...? Couldn't really detect that direction in the little public statements we have heard from him though... .

I think that, especially with overwhelming focus in recent years on some high-profile cases, defense attorneys have a difficult audience for pre-trial public statements. The public is primed to mistrust them, no matter what approach they use. Ultimately, of course, pre-trial perception is not really the main focus of their duties ... but guess it DOES matter, in one way and another.

I've had the feeling (just a deep hunch, not something I can explain through logic), from the very beginning, that there was going to be a huge twist and shocker somewhere in this -- and, of course, one could say Lauren's death and the aftermath has been nothing but a series of twists and shockers! But after every one of them I have sort of asked myself: Was that it, what I've been expecting? And somehow I keep having the feeling there is more to come.... I don't know what (if anything) "it" will be -- maybe a cascade of the sort of damning evidence you mention. I just don't know.
 
About the friends not coming forward...I am not sure how to take it.

respectfully snipped

Snipped you mightily, PJD, but I wanted to say that I think ALL the points you made are interesting and relevant. Very well thought out -- it's strange to me -- how deeply involved many of us seem to feel in this case and how hard it can make us think, along many lines. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

To add to them: I also think it is possible that just not many people knew SM "that well" -- maybe liked him OK, as far as they knew him, but ... . Those kind of folks may be caught up in the horror of Lauren's death and just wondering -- much as I have (though I don't know him, at all) -- "Could he have done this...? Someone did, obviously, but ...was it him?" I think many people of that degree of acquaintance would tend to just sit tight and follow the case as it develops, much as we do here, looking at any angles/possibilities.
 
What I find odd with Lauren's case is that no one seems to be talking publicly, not the prosecution, the defense, or Macon PD. I do agree that SM has a good team of lawyers. I did some internet research on both of them and what I read is favorable as successful defense attorneys. There is also a good one, a one man show, in Dublin, GA, from what I understand. I can't remember his name. I wonder who will be lead defense attorney if SM goes to trial. I also wonder if there will be a jury consultant for either side. Any thoughts?
 
What I find odd with Lauren's case is that no one seems to be talking publicly, not the prosecution, the defense, or Macon PD. I do agree that SM has a good team of lawyers. I did some internet research on both of them and what I read is favorable as successful defense attorneys. There is also a good one, a one man show, in Dublin, GA, from what I understand. I can't remember his name. I wonder who will be lead defense attorney if SM goes to trial. I also wonder if there will be a jury consultant for either side. Any thoughts?

bbm: To me, what you note --although maybe it is just usual and appropriate at this point in a case? -- adds to that "holding pattern" feeling and also the vibe, as AgentFrank noted, that something big is about to happen.

About the jury consultant: It sure wouldn't surprise me.
 
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