I am so Angry

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Ntegrity said:
:rolleyes: <------ Me Four standing with Nan and Less and Sniffy. There has never been a disaster in the U.S. where an entire city was submerged, no drinking water, no electricity, no communication. It's not gonna be solved in a day or two. And everyone who's complaining how the evacuees have been holed up with no food or water for SIX DAYS should remember there was running water until after the storm on Monday. Even an idiot should know to bring food, water and diapers for their babies. I think the victims should accept at least partial blame for their situation, but it's so much easier to blame the government.

:confused: There are some people who are incapable of understanding the circumstances of a crisis-situation. Many people did bring supplies -- they ran out. These are people who don't own SUVs. They brought what they could CARRY. I am sure that many shared with those who didn't bring or who ran out early -- never imagining that help was DAYS AWAY!! That's the people in the Superdome. Many others had to flee for their lives when the levees broke. They didn't have time to PACK!!
 
nanandjim said:
The Red Cross Director explained that it was deemed too dangerous for their volunteers to enter until areas were under control. They do not want to put the lives of the Red Cross volunteers in danger. Unfortunately, I agree with the decision. A few thugs make it hard on everyone. So, IMO, the blame should be placed on the thugs and the Louisiana's local government for not having a plan.

Of course, by reading many of the posts on this forum, I understand that my viewpoint is in the minority. :)


Me, too. We sent busses to N.O. which were turned away because of security reasons. People were wandering the streets with AK47's and shooting at rescuers.....the busses were allowed in once the security issues were being dealt with.

Louisiana's GOVERNOR, a lady I have admired, is being strongly implicated. She arranged for security/rescue forces ahead of time and then DELAYED giving them the OK to enter the city. She has seemed to have times of emotional and governmental paralysis.

I like Kathleen, but I voted for Bobby Jindal, and boy, I am wishing he'd have won that election.
 
How do you pack and carry enough food, water, diapers etc for 5 or 6 days and carry it along a couple kids when you are on foot? Expecially if you are walking threw waste deep or higher water? How do you carry it if you are sick or elderly?

Its not easy to blame the Government as they represent me . But I certainly wont make excuses for them and give them a pass on their failure to Command this situation. IMO they have failed and children are dying because of it.
 
Ntegrity said:
...I think the victims should accept at least partial blame for their situation...
It's so nice to see that there are a few other posters who are of the same mindset as I! :blowkiss:

I agree that many of the victims who CHOSE not to evacuate, although warned and offered assistance to do so, are responsible for their demise.

As kgeaux (who is in Louisiana) note, it was the Governor's decision to DELAY allowing help into the state.

It's the old domino effect. When one is out of place, the entire set topples over.

President Bush will go down as the biggest "whipping boy" in history, IMO. Is there anything left that we can blame on him? :rolleyes:
 
Another thing whilst im ranting. I keep hearing "Why didnt these people evacuate?"

I want to know HOW were they suppose to evacuate. We see how many bus's , helecopters and planes it is taking to evacuate this number of people. We did not see 100's of bus's , planes and helicopters evacuating the poor and elderly before the Hurricane.

How were these people suppose to evacuate and where were they suppose to go?
 
tybee204 said:
Another thing whilst im ranting. I keep hearing "Why didnt these people evacuate?"

I want to know HOW were they suppose to evacuate. We see how many bus's , helecopters and planes it is taking to evacuate this number of people. We did not see 100's of bus's , planes and helicopters evacuating the poor and elderly before the Hurricane.

How were these people suppose to evacuate and where were they suppose to go?
I believe that I had read that many were offered transportation out of town and refused. In any case, this was the local government's responsibility to coordinate this effort. You can't force the people to leave. Yet, they and apparently part of the general public don't expect adults to be held accountable for their own choices.

It's the ones that didn't have a choice (i.e., the children) that I really feel sorry for.

ETA: They have armories, etc., in many states that were set up to take in the evacuees. Been there, done that...
 
As my husband said yesterday.... I'm not going to stand in front of a category 5 hurricane in a city where it was already below sea level. Wouldn't you run from a fire? With children on my hip, I'd have been thumbing my way somewhere. My luck tho, I would have thumbed to Waveland or Biloxi and then been blown off the face of the earth. But I would have tried.
 
less0305 said:
As my husband said yesterday.... I'm not going to stand in front of a category 5 hurricane in a city where it was already below sea level. Wouldn't you run from a fire? With children on my hip, I'd have been thumbing my way somewhere. My luck tho, I would have thumbed to Waveland or Biloxi and then been blown off the face of the earth. But I would have tried.
I agree. I see people in town here, standing at traffic lights with signs that say, "I am hungry. Need money for food." If I had no way out of town, I would have a sign saying, "Please help!! Need a ride to a shelter!!" I know that these people had spray paint because I saw pleas for help on rooftops. That amazed me because I wonder where they got the paint!!
 
There were people with money that couldnt get out. Airports closed, no rental cars available etc. Some people hired taxi's and limo services at thousands of dollars to get them out. The guests at the hotels are there because they couldnt get out.

These people couldnt get out yet we expect the poorest of the poor and the elderly with little or no money and no transportation to have gotten out?
 
nanandjim said:
The Red Cross Director explained that it was deemed too dangerous for their volunteers to enter until areas were under control. They do not want to put the lives of the Red Cross volunteers in danger. Unfortunately, I agree with the decision. A few thugs make it hard on everyone. So, IMO, the blame should be placed on the thugs and the Louisiana's local government for not having a plan.

Of course, by reading many of the posts on this forum, I understand that my viewpoint is in the minority. :)
Hi Nanandjim! :wavyguy: I see both sides to this (as I do to most things). Their safety should come first so I can understand if it was not safe to go into the areas where the people were with the stolen guns, etc. I also understand it if there were not enough guardsmen to protect them as they went through (which is obviously the case and I fault the government for that).

What I don't understand, however, is why our government couldn't do something ELSE then - such as dropping tarps and food and water and medical supplies from helicopters to the people stuck on the bridges and rooftops, etc.?? If they didn't feel safe enough to take vehicles in, then drop crates of supplies like they do to third-world countries so these people wouldn't have felt so desperate. They'd have known there WAS help coming, even though it would take time.

Did they have a helicopter going around with a bullhorn telling people that help was on the way, that they wouldn’t just abandon them, that things had to be done in an orderly manner and they were trying to save the sick and elderly first, but that they would not be forgotten?

It just seems that more could’ve been done. I know it’s easy to point fingers afterwards, but it didn’t seem like anyone was in charge. Was it the Mayor? Homeland Security? FEMA? I mean, compared to 9/11 having Mayor Guilliani (sp??) – it seems like there was just no control.

It is a shame that a few select @ssho!es took advantage of a disaster to loot, rape, murder and have shoot-outs. Couldn’t we have gotten some Navy Seals or SWAT guys sent into the areas immediately where the looting and rapes were occurring, hiding in black in their little boats, with night-vision goggles and given an order to shoot anyone holding a weapon?

Before everyone screams at me about how some of those looters are innocent, panicked people just trying to survive, I suggest they just shoot them in the arm so they drop the weapon. Word would soon get out that this type of lawlessness wouldn’t be tolerated, EVER. If they did come across people committing violent acts, they would have permission to shoot-to-kill, to rid society of those who enjoy taking advantage of others. Once it was safe, the Red Cross could go in and help even more. Why just keep the Red Cross out – why not make it safe for the Red Cross to go in????

Last night, after hearing Shepard Smith & Geraldo (gag), I was so frustrated that I couldn’t do more. I was in tears and asking DH if we could go around town, door to door, asking for extra diapers, bottled water, canned goods, clothes, toiletries, etc. I wanted to borrow our friend’s maxi-van, load it up, and drive to the bridges and outside the convention center myself. I’m sure many of you WS’ers out there would’ve helped us along our way, some of you joining the effort as we traveled, growing in numbers until we arrived to help these devastated people. I guess I might take after my father a tad, ;) as he took a van-full of donated goods to the people in Honduras a few years back (1999 maybe?).

Anyway - I got so frustrated thinking how it would take us a few days to organize it (we don't have extra money so I was gonna ask my parents to donate gas money for us to go) and that by the time we drove there from Michigan, they would already have help. Well, then it hit me - the reason I didn't begin to organize such a thing the minute this tragedy occurred, is because I TRUSTED OUR GOVERNMENT to come to the rescue. One of the reporters on tv (on in the background, I don't know who it was) quoted something that JFK once said and it really hit me:
“Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.”

If I'd have known that it would take our government that long to help these people, and if I were "somebody" - I'd have called Donald Trump, Bill Gates, John Travolta, etc, and borrowed their jets.... I'd have asked Evian to give me some crates of water.... I'd have gone to all the camping stores and begged for tarps and rope and camping supplies.... I'd have called Levi Strauss and Calvin Klein and gotten boxes and boxes of new clothes.... I'd have gone to Band-Aid and Curad and gotten bandages, gauze, peroxide, etc..... I'd have gone to Pfizer and other drug companies and gotten prescription medications of all kinds.... I’d have gone to all of the Wal-Marts and gotten OTC medicines and Gatorades. Then I'd fly those celebrity planes, filled with the essentials, and gotten as close to the area as possible. From there I'd have taken groups of people in vans, buses and motor-homes, pulling people's boats and jet-ski's and we would've helped these people ourselves. If I were “somebody”, I could’ve paid people in Alabama and Texas for the use of their boats and jet-ski’s and vans, and other people with as much compassion would’ve gladly joined the efforts. If I were “somebody”.

To end this rambling post, I told DH last night that if another huge hurricane hits anywhere, we should organize our little van-effort immediately, instead of waiting for the government to help the people. The PEOPLE need to help the PEOPLE – and I AM SOMEBODY!!!

Sorry for rambling, this is just such a frustrating thing to sit back and watch and I feel so helpless and then that makes me angry. Thanks for listening.
 
tybee204 said:
There were people with money that couldnt get out. Airports closed, no rental cars available etc. Some people hired taxi's and limo services at thousands of dollars to get them out. The guests at the hotels are there because they couldnt get out.

These people couldnt get out yet we expect the poorest of the poor and the elderly with little or no money and no transportation to have gotten out?
People could get out, if they left when they were offered rides and warned. I have heard radio interviews from some of those left behind, who admitted that they didn't take the storm seriously, waited too long to seek transportation and therefore had no choice but to ride out the storm.

Again, I have heard that officials actually went door-to-door and offered transportation to those who did not have it.

Had the levees been strong enough to hold the water, NO would have made it through this disaster. IMO, all of the major problems caused by this storm were preventable. Engineers had been warning Louisiana for years that the levees were not designed to hold up to anything greater than a Cat 3 hurricane.

ETA: I feel sorry for the resulting conditions. However, if I were in that situation, I would be intelligent enough to know that I was at least partly responsible for my own demise.
 
On Monday, when it became clear just how many people remained in NO as well as many of the towns along the Gulf Coast, my first response was to think, well, they were told to evacuate! However, by the end of that day the reality of the evacuation situation became apparent and I immediately changed my tune. Yes, there were those who chose to ride it out like an amusement park ride. They thought it would be an exciting adventure. However, few fall into that category. Yes, there were many who were offered evacuation but refused. Many of those refused because they would not leave elderly/infirm family/friends behind. I consider them heroes. Many tried to get out but had to turn back because of the congestion on the highways. There are also many many who believed that they could somehow protect their home from the ravages of the storm and potential looting. The misconception that we are invincible is common but is also encouraged by a media and a government (yes, both!) who do everything they can to protect us from reality. When other natural disasters hit, we never see the COMPLETE picture of the devastation and death that comes with it. It is the same with war. We are shielded from the reality, but it is easier to do so when the devastation is going on elsewhere. Natural disasters are treated as entertainment. Reporters stand out in the middle of them and people think they can do the same. Nature hits, causes damage, and then everything is cleaned up and we all move on.

I agree that the local government bears fault, as well as the federal government, and the media (for sensationalizing past disasters). Some of the individual victims made very bad choices, many had no choice. Most did the best they could in a chaotic situation with little guidance.
 
Fats Domino's manager said on national radio that Fats and his family did not WANT to leave. Did not WANT to leave. Suddenly when things got wayyyyyy bad miracuously a helicopter came and got Fats and his family. How did that happen? Whose helicopter? Did the helicopter help out any other families? Was it a coast guard helicopter or a private helicopter?
 
SieSie said:
Hi Nanandjim! :wavyguy:... I also understand it if there were not enough guardsmen to protect them as they went through (which is obviously the case and I fault the government for that)...
Hello, there. :blowkiss: Did you read kgeaux's post stating that the Governor of Louisiana delayed giving the okay for help to enter the state? If memory serves me, President Bush approved help several days BEFORE the storm. If local government refuses to allow entry UNTIL it is almost too late, there's not much that can be done.

I also heard news reports of thugs shooting at the helicopters. I can well imagine that they couldn't get close enough to drop supplies.

IMO, there was little to no planning and little to no leadership in the State of Louisiana. From the little coverage that I have seen in Mississippi and Alabama (who had areas totally decimated by the hurricane), they are not having nearly the same problems as Louisiana. IMO, this is due to those particular states' good planning and leadership.
 
nanandjim said:
Had the levees been strong enough to hold the water, NO would have made it through this disaster. IMO, all of the major problems caused by this storm were preventable. Engineers had been warning Louisiana for years that the levees were not designed to hold up to anything greater than a Cat 3 hurricane.

Exactly. I'm with you Nan. I remember hearing somewhere that it would have cost $1-2 Billion to fix the system - now they're looking at $100 Billion to rebuild.

The weakest link for me appears to be the Governor - I've seen the Governor of Texas on TV more than her.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_national_guard

Congress Likely to Probe Guard Delay


WASHINGTON - Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck — a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress. .....

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard on Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday.......

Republicans and Democrats alike in Congress are just beginning to ask why one of the National Guard's most trusted roles — disaster relief — was so uneven, delayed and chaotic this time around.......



Sen. Chuck Hagel (news, bio, voting record), R-Neb., said the situation has shown major breakdowns in the nation's emergency response capabilities. "There must be some accountability in this process after the crisis is addressed," he said........



Full story at link.
 
jilly said:
Exactly. I'm with you Nan. I remember hearing somewhere that it would have cost $1-2 Billion to fix the system - now they're looking at $100 Billion to rebuild.
It could be that much just to clear up all the mess - never mind rebuild, if they even rebuild - nothing will change that the city is still below sea level and this could happen again.
 
Ntegrity said:
I think the victims should accept at least partial blame for their situation.

I never thought I'd hear that one on Websleuths. And I suppose the children getting raped by the thugs in the city right now were "asking for it," when they were at 711 looting for food because they didn't evacuate?

Government responsibility aside, is it that difficult for people to put themselves in someone else's position and understand that some people were simply unable to evacuate? There was a poster on here with family down there and when they got to the freeway, it was too packed and they were unable to get on and get out of the city. So they had to turn around and get to shelter to try to ride it out. And now we sit here judging people like them lumping everyone together and saying how much smarter we would be in their situation.

Yes, there are people who *wouldn't* evacute, but don't confuse them with the people who *couldn't* evacuate.
 
The smugness and heartlessness of some posters here continues to amaze me.

Gee, some people underestimated the destructive power of Katrina (a group that includes the President, the Director of FEMA and the whole federal clown crew who apparently couldn't understand the situation even days AFTER the storm). Well, those who didn't evacuate made a mistake so they certainly deserve to starve to death. Slowly.

And a lot of people are poor - so of course they deserve whatever horrors they encounter. Maybe the nightmare will teach them a valuable lesson, like... uh... "Don't be poor!"

But the worst, apparently, are those wasteful people who chose to make SOS signs instead of eating their spray paint. How can they be so selfish during a crisis?!

While we're praying for the needy along the Gulf, we should spend a few prayers on our fellow Americans who suffer from having too much.
 
jilly said:
Exactly. I'm with you Nan. I remember hearing somewhere that it would have cost $1-2 Billion to fix the system - now they're looking at $100 Billion to rebuild.

The weakest link for me appears to be the Governor - I've seen the Governor of Texas on TV more than her.

Do you think maybe the governor of Louisiana is a little busy right now? Maybe her primary job isn't making TV appearances to entertain you?
 
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