MI MI - Patricia Spencer, 16, & Pamela Hobley, 15, Oscoda, 31 Oct 1969

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Richard said:
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Patricia Spencer missing 31 Oct 1969
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Pamela Hobley missing 31 Oct 1969

Patricia Spencer and Pamela Hobley vanished on their way to a Halloween party 45 years ago...
  • Patricia Spencer, 17, and her 15-year-old friend Pamela Hobley went missing on October 31, 1969
  • The girls went to a high school football game in Oscoda, Michigan but never showed up at a party they were supposed to attend
  • Rumors said the girls were buried under a barn 11 miles from the town but police search revealed no trace of them...

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LINK:
Patricia Spencer and Pamela Hobley vanished on their way to a Halloween party 45 years ago | Daily Mail Online
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I think the DM got some details wrong in this news story. The girls didn't attend the football game. They vanished in the afternoon, towards the end of the school day. They allegedly skipped the latter part of the school day after a "bomb scare" at the high school. When they didn't show up for the football game that evening, friends and family began looking for them and reported them missing.
 
Here's a somewhat recent article about some of Michigan's more notorious serial murderers of women.

9 notorious Michigan killers who terrorized and brutalized women

I wonder where Leslie Allen Williams was that Halloween? He attacked many young women (teen-agers, really) and bounced in and out of prison for much of his life. I've always thought he was a potential suspect for many, many other missing girls. As an aside, that has no bearing on the case at hand, he attempted to abduct a dear friend of mine, who ID'd him to LE very soon after he was arrested for the crimes he eventually ended up serving LWOP for.

I've having a difficult time trying to figure out if he was locked up in '69 or not.

I know I've read speculation somewhere that he lured the young women with promises of booze and/or drugs and was very strong physically and liked to drive, i.e., road trip to Oscoda? He would have been about 26? 27? at the time. Old enough to seem like a "cool" older guy but not yet into creepy dad age territory.

JMO
 
MrsWatson said:
Here's a somewhat recent article about some of Michigan's more notorious serial murderers of women.

9 notorious Michigan killers who terrorized and brutalized women

I wonder where Leslie Allen Williams was that Halloween? He attacked many young women (teen-agers, really) and bounced in and out of prison for much of his life. I've always thought he was a potential suspect for many, many other missing girls. As an aside, that has no bearing on the case at hand, he attempted to abduct a dear friend of mine, who ID'd him to LE very soon after he was arrested for the crimes he eventually ended up serving LWOP for.

I've having a difficult time trying to figure out if he was locked up in '69 or not.

I know I've read speculation somewhere that he lured the young women with promises of booze and/or drugs and was very strong physically and liked to drive, i.e., road trip to Oscoda? He would have been about 26? 27? at the time. Old enough to seem like a "cool" older guy but not yet into creepy dad age territory.

JMO
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If he was out of jail, he would be a good fit. JMO, there's a possibility the girls were victims of a serial killer. Just one of those things that happened in a rural area, on a quiet road where two teen girls were hitchhiking.
 
Michigan was kind of a hot bed for some really nasty murders of young women in that time period. If old John Norman Collins hadn't already been locked up, I would think he'd be on the radar as well. He's another one, I don't think we know half of what he's done. And his buddy, who just seems to have vanished into the ether, where was he?
 
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MrsWatson said:
Michigan was kind of a hot bed for some really nasty murders of young women in that time period. If old John Norman Collins hadn't already been locked up, I would think he'd be on the radar as well. He's another one, I don't think we know half of what he's done. And his buddy, who just seems to have vanished into the ether, where was he?
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Andrew Julian Manuel was born in Salinas, CA on May 13, 1944. He was described (in July 1969) as twenty-five years old, 6'1" tall and weighing 235 pounds. He was dark complected with dark hair and eyes, and he had a tattoo of an eagle on his left forearm. Initially, Manuel was described as Mexican-American, but soon he was found to be Filipino-American.

Manuel moved to Michigan around 1965, taking a job at the Ford Motor Company in the Detroit area. Over the summer of 1968, he worked at Bond Warehouse before moving to Ypsilanti in September. There he took a job in the machine department at Motor Wheel Corporation where he met John Collins, a twenty-two year old Eastern Michigan University student who had worked part-time there since August 1968...

... Andrew Julian Manuel died taking his secrets to the grave on Saturday, February 19, 2011, only three months shy of his sixty-seventh birthday.

It is hard to believe that Andrew Manual was a complete innocent considering his close relationship to John Collins. I have often wondered if he was involved with the murder of the young women often considered Collins Victims. And there were other young girls who disappeared or were murdered in both California and Michigan at times when Manuel was known to be in the vicinity. He could have been working on his own or with others.

More at link:

Fornology.com : John Norman Collins Associate - Andrew Julian Manuel, Jr.
 
Wow, thank you @Richard!

A rabbit hole I will gladly go down.

The thing that sticks with me about Patti & Pam is that there were two of them. So it had to be either someone they knew, even marginally, or someone who appears harmless to them, such as someone close to their age group.

And we know there were serial killers active in Michigan in that time frame and an awful lot of unsolved murders and missing young women.

JMO
 
MrsWatson said:
Wow, thank you @Richard! ...
... The thing that sticks with me about Patti & Pam is that there were two of them. So it had to be either someone they knew, even marginally, or someone who appears harmless to them, such as someone close to their age group....
JMO
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Good observations. It might also indicate that more than one abductor/perpetrator could have been involved.

For more on Andrew Manuel, check out the Unidentified Section thread on Lompoc Jane Doe.

LINKS:

MI - MI - JOHN NORMAN COLLINS Co-Ed Murders 1967-69, Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti

CA - CA - Lompoc, WhtFem 205UFCA, 16-25, overbite, horseshoe earrings, Aug'69
 
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Richard said:
Good observations. It might also indicate that more than one abductor/perpetrator could have been involved.

For more on Andrew Manuel, check out the Unidentified Section thread on Lompoc Jane Doe.

LINKS:

MI - MI - JOHN NORMAN COLLINS Co-Ed Murders 1967-69, Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti

CA - CA - Lompoc, WhtFem 205UFCA, 16-25, overbite, horseshoe earrings, Aug'69
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There's no telling what crimes Manuel might have been involved in, but there's no evidence linking him to the Oscoda case.
That the girls were never found suggests that their killer may have been known to them. Serial Killers don't usually bother to hide random victims to whom they can't be connected.
 
Ozoner said:
There's no telling what crimes Manuel might have been involved in, but there's no evidence linking him to the Oscoda case.
That the girls were never found suggests that their killer may have been known to them. Serial Killers don't usually bother to hide random victims to whom they can't be connected.
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This is very likely the case here - in regard to Collins and Manuel. All of the cases generally believed to have been part of the "Co-Ed Killer" series involved girls and young women whose bodies were left in the open (not buried or concealed), near roads where they would be found.

Collins was incarcerated and awaiting trial at the time Pamela and Patricia went missing, and Manuel was likely on a short rope - probably not in jail, but awaiting theft charges and scheduled to testify against Collins. Investigators were probably watching Manuel (and also Collins Roommate Arnold Davis) carefully to be sure he did not take off or commit any more crimes.

All of the "Co-Ed Killer" cases were single girls - that is each was alone when abducted and murdered. These girls went missing together and were never found.
 
I think Manuel is a good suspect. However, he may not be the only one... I was wondering where Arthur Ream was in 1969. He usually chose teenagers as his victims and hid their bodies; I know he is only convicted for one murder, but investigatores think that was not his only crime and, in fact, according to a cellmate, he confessed being responsible for six deaths.
 
Diane Redfern said:
I think Manuel is a good suspect. However, he may not be the only one... I was wondering where Arthur Ream was in 1969. He usually chose teenagers as his victims and hid their bodies; I know he is only convicted for one murder, but investigatores think that was not his only crime and, in fact, according to a cellmate, he confessed being responsible for six deaths.
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Ream was 20 years old in 1969, so he can't be ruled out based on age, but I don't know of anything that would tie him to Oscoda.
 
Guido Gonzalez said:
Could this Jane Doe be Pamela?

93UFCT
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I wonder if that case is on websleuths?
Very similar looks, same colour hair and eyes, similar height. The 6 year gap is a problem though. Do we know if Pamela has DNA submitted to NamUs?, if so they would have been compared. Would be worth submitting imo.
 
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