Netherlands Netherlands - Schiedam, WhtFem, 16-24, 5'3'', 12 Oct 2005

[Bit of hope]

16 years have passed now. Still no identity. How terribly sad. No updates...... This is known about her.....

Reconstructie gezicht in cold case vermoorde vrouw

 

[Bit of hope]

Sorry...it's graphic.... picture of her body covered with bedding. DPG Media Privacy Gate

 

[Bit of hope]

Still nothing new. The newer recon is so lifelike....still nobody came forward. Maybe the family was threatened or it was done by a family member and she wasn't reported missing or family thinks she doesn't want contact/is estranged and has a good life in the Netherlands....who know's what the story is....thinking of you young lady.

 

[dotr]

Cross posting..
?
Louise Tume - Missing People

UK - UK- Louise Tume (Aka "Anya Ford") 18, Islington, London, 2005

 

[ZaZara]

Cross posting..
?
Louise Tume - Missing People

UK - UK- Louise Tume (Aka "Anya Ford") 18, Islington, London, 2005

Most likely not at all.

I have been clear about my dislike of the DOE network grabbing European cases and imposing their American format on the data available, and never checking or updating afterwards, but hey, you can't be too precise if you are aiming to become the number 1 world wide network, I get it. And I disagree wholeheartedly with the practice.

SO FYI, when the DOE network mentions that DNA is not available, in most Dutch cases and European cases as well, this is a blatant misrepresentation. But apparently they do not care, or assume that the world is alike everywhere.

Dutch LE has been collecting DNA for over 20 years now in all murder cases. They do not mention this on profiles of the missing or the dead. But the DNA is there as part of the investigation.

Both UK and The Netherlands are members of Interpol. If LE in UK has DNA of Louise Tume or her next of kin, she would have been excluded in seconds, or a match would have been made. If so, two cases would have been solved and they haven't.

No match and not even an option, given the way LE works in Europe.

 

[Bit of hope]

Bringing my post over from another Dutch case, making it fit here.

There is a law since 2010 saying that LE in the Netherlands takes DNA of every unidentified persons or remains found, before burying them and put it in a specific database for matching purposes only. Already buried N.N. persons were exhumed in recent years to get a DNA sample. Of course there must be DNA of a family member to compare it with. If her family never filed a missing person report or has no idea she ended up in Rotterdam in the Netherlands and didn't know were to file it and didn't gave their DNA to the Dutch police, no match can turn up.

About the Dutch DNA database for Missing Persons (DVP, Database Vermiste Personen)

The following types of DNA profiles are stored in the DVP:

1. DNA profiles of (mortal remains of) unidentified persons;
2. DNA profiles of (utensils of) missing persons;
3. DNA profiles of family members of missing persons;

DNA profiles of unidentified individuals are compared with:

• The DNA profiles of other unidentified persons (to connect parts of the body found separately)
• The DNA profiles of missing persons and / or their family members and
• The DNA profiles of known persons that are stored in the Dutch DNA database for criminal cases (to see whether this may lead to an identification).

In the Netherlands the government is still debating over the widespread use of genealogical DNA analyses, like f.i. the DNA Doe Project and Othram use to identify persons. We will see what the future brings.

DNA profiles of missing persons and unidentified remains from the Netherlands are also included in Interpol 's DNA database in Lyon. Interpol has 194 member countries so there must be something off in this case, why they weren't able to make a match. No family DNA/no missing persons report or.....a member country isn't ready yet to collect and /or submit DNA to the Interpol database from their unidentified or missing persons on a national level. F.i Italy doesn't even have a national database, let alone f.i. Albania.

On December 7, 2020 no members of Interpol were: Taiwan, North-Korea and Tuvalu. Didn't check if they are now, but it doesn't seem relevant relating to this case.

 

[Bit of hope]

Just going to post this suggestion...age is off and she is listed at Interpol.

MF-0001

View Yellow Notices

Looking for my Sister Lana -Miranda Qorri

Thoughts?

 

[Bit of hope]

Height is off, even the eye color, but I see such a resemblance.....https://find.globalmissingkids.org/poster/BY-BY13

Endangered missing from Belarus since 2001, 16 years. Would have been 20 yrs. in 2005.

 

[Carovb5]

Height is off, even the eye color, but I see such a resemblance.....https://find.globalmissingkids.org/poster/BY-BY13

Endangered missing from Belarus since 2001, 16 years. Would have been 20 yrs. in 2005.

View attachment 345929View attachment 345930View attachment 345931

Eye color is oftentimes difficult to see after death + a lot of times height is an estimate ("she was approximately as tall as i am...), so for me it doesn’t rule her out.
The jaw, face shape & haircolor + age fit. I find it worth mailing it to police!
Edited a fault i made.

 

[Carovb5]

I myself saw a bit of jaw-resemblance in these girls:

PERKOVIC Inga - Bosnia Herzigovina

MF-0074

PERKOVIC Inga Missing since: July 6, 2001Missing from: Livno, Bosnia and Herzegovina Inga was last seen in Livno on July 6, 2001. Since then no trace of her have been found. Physical Description Ra…

missingdoe.com

PROKOPENKO Svitlana - Ukrain
Age is off

MF-0182

PROKOPENKO Svitlana Missing since: June 1, 2002Missing from: Donetsk, Ukraine Svitlana was last seen in Donetsk region, Ukraine on June 1, 2002. Race: Slavic Gender: FemaleAge: 27Height: 165 cmWeig…

missingdoe.com

 

[ZaZara]

I myself saw a bit of jaw-resemblance in these girls:

PERKOVIC Inga - Bosnia Herzigovina

MF-0074

PERKOVIC Inga Missing since: July 6, 2001Missing from: Livno, Bosnia and Herzegovina Inga was last seen in Livno on July 6, 2001. Since then no trace of her have been found. Physical Description Ra…

missingdoe.com

PROKOPENKO Svitlana - Ukrain
Age is off

MF-0182

PROKOPENKO Svitlana Missing since: June 1, 2002Missing from: Donetsk, Ukraine Svitlana was last seen in Donetsk region, Ukraine on June 1, 2002. Race: Slavic Gender: FemaleAge: 27Height: 165 cmWeig…

missingdoe.com

Missing Doe - which appears to be someone's weblog with no further info about the person(s) or organization behind it - lists Interpol as the agency information should be directed to. If that is correct, Interpol should have both the data of these missing women and those of the woman found in Schiedam. So, no match.

 

[Carovb5]

Missing Doe - which appears to be someone's weblog with no further info about the person(s) or organization behind it - lists Interpol as the agency information should be directed to. If that is correct, Interpol should have both the data of these missing women and those of the woman found in Schiedam. So, no match.

Thanks for the tip! I wasn’t aware anybody from interpol is looked into within other interpol-countries, even the less obvious ones (date & age discrepancies). Very usefull tip, thank you

 

[ZaZara]

Thanks for the tip! I wasn’t aware anybody from interpol is looked into within other interpol-countries, even the less obvious ones (date & age discrepancies). Very usefull tip, thank you

We (from Europe) tend to think that our situation is the same as in the US, so we copy this cross checking of databases that is often successful in the US. But in Europe, the organization is totally different, and somehow many are not aware.

Well, I guess that 'somehow' is due to the fact that we get more info from other sources, and if you are on WS, it would seem logical to copy the same method. But in Europe, it is far more likely that if I can find it on the internet, LE has been able to find it already or even were the ones to put it there.

 

[Susikatze]

True. I speak for Germany and Austria. There are no big missing person public databases. People disappear, are reported missing and LE pursues. It is not publicized unless it is a teen or child and even then it is not a guarantee for publication. Also there is still the attitude anybody over 18 is an adult and LE cant do so much. Unless there is evidence for a crime.
And personality rights are so strong that the only forensic DNA testing that is commonly done is only done in case of an evident crime, hardly for UID. And it is mainly MtDNA and YDNA, no genetic genealogy. And it is uploaded in the equivalent to CODIS, which for genealogy is fairly useless.

So, you cant compare that to the US at all.

Moo

 

[Carovb5]

Thanks for the info @Susikatze & @ZaZara . I am/was aware but not to that extend.

The reason therefor is 2 cases: a teenager found in BE a couple of years ago right after his death & a missing teenager in NL. Nobody made the match until someone online did. I don’t find a good article, but his name was Lesley Timmer.

Same with a missing couple from BE & two bodies found in Italy. Also matched by someone outside LE.

Vermiste Antwerpse (26) lag vier jaar in Italiaans mortuarium

Vier jaar zochten Dirk en Chris Meyvis uit Antwerpen naar hun vermiste dochter Elke. Ze hebben haar gevonden: dood in een mortuarium in Italië. Ze lag daar al sinds kerst 2004. Samen met haar vriend.

m.nieuwsblad.be

 

[ZaZara]

Thanks for the info @Susikatze & @ZaZara . I am/was aware but not to that extend.

The reason therefor is 2 cases: a teenager found in BE a couple of years ago right after his death & a missing teenager in NL. Nobody made the match until someone online did. I don’t find a good article, but his name was Lesley Timmer.

Same with a missing couple from BE & two bodies found in Italy. Also matched by someone outside LE.

Vermiste Antwerpse (26) lag vier jaar in Italiaans mortuarium

Vier jaar zochten Dirk en Chris Meyvis uit Antwerpen naar hun vermiste dochter Elke. Ze hebben haar gevonden: dood in een mortuarium in Italië. Ze lag daar al sinds kerst 2004. Samen met haar vriend.

m.nieuwsblad.be

The case in Italy dates from 2004. Via your link:

The parents do not understand that their child was kept in a refrigerator for four years while she and Vincent were signalled internationally. According to Vermist
Interpol sent out a message in 2004 with the reconstructed faces of the people found in Italy. But apparently they have not been collaborating', Leeman thinks.

BBM

IMO, this was before the existence of the DNA database and searches were done on the basis of descriptions and the facial reconstructions. International co-operation has improved in the almost 20 years since this happened and so has the use of DNA.

About the Lesley Timmer case: Lesley disappeared on June 7, 2011 and his remains were found on June 10 in Belgium. He had no ID and the Belgian Police send out pictures and a description of the young man to Vermist, among others.
On July 8, the father of Lesly was shocked to discover that his son was dead, during a broadcast on tv by Vermist.

Lesley Timmer was identified within a month, thanks to the usual channels from 2011.

Wat deed Delftenaar Lesley in Luik?


IMO, the developments in international co-operation and DNA technology are very well illustrated by the following case:

In 2001, a Dutch woman named Corrie van der Valk disappeared without a trace from her home in the Netherlands. In November 2018, her remains were identified:

The investigation into Corrie's death is currently in the hands of the Belgian police and prosecutors. Vincent Macq, prosecutor of the Namur Prosecutor's Office in Belgium, confirmed that Corrie Van Der Valk was buried in the Bois-de-Villers cemetery near Profondville, a town near Namur. "She died there in 2001 in a collision with a train. [ on the day of her disappearance ] Her body was unrecognisable.

The Missing Persons Cell took the initiative this year to take new DNA samples in old cold cases. With the current techniques, even old DNA can still yield an identification. That is what happened in this case", according to Macq.

Through data exchange with the Netherlands, it turned out that the DNA of the woman in our anonymous grave matched the missing Corrie Van Der Valk."

Lichaam vermiste Corrie van der Valk na zeventien jaar gevonden

 

[Carovb5]

@ZaZara i get what you’re saying and a lot of times that’s the case.

What i’m wondering: what’s your suggestion we should do with unsolved disappearances & unidentified persons in Europe? You’re on Websleuths so i can imagine you don’t juSt want to sit around and wait, ignoring the European cases…
Very interested in hearing your suggestions.

I myself think every possible match & tip should be concidered. The 2 times i mailed with a possible tip, they answered to keep doing it, as they don’t have time & people to go online & search on sites & updates themselves. I read that as ‘it is very useful & they believe in this method’.
I’m not thinking we can do MORE, i think we can do DIFFERENT. Just my opinion.

 

[ZaZara]

@ZaZara i get what you’re saying and a lot of times that’s the case.

What i’m wondering: what’s your suggestion we should do with unsolved disappearances & unidentified persons in Europe? You’re on Websleuths so i can imagine you don’t juSt want to sit around and wait, ignoring the European cases…
Very interested in hearing your suggestions.

I myself think every possible match & tip should be concidered. The 2 times i mailed with a possible tip, they answered to keep doing it, as they don’t have time & people to go online & search on sites & updates themselves. I read that as ‘it is very useful & they believe in this method’.
I’m not thinking we can do MORE, i think we can do DIFFERENT. Just my opinion.

Not sure why you think I am ignoring European cases.

How this started:

You mentioned Inga Perkovic and Svitlana Prokopenko as possible id's for the Schiedam DOE. Their names come from a list by Missing Doe, an unspecified weblog. Missing Doe lists INTERPOL as the investigating agency in both cases. Should INTERPOL check its own yellow notices that Missing Doe so dutilfully copied?

Through I-Familia, the DNA of Schiedam Doe can be matched with the DNA that family members of the missing have uploaded. There has not been a match yet. IMO Schiedam Doe has not been reported missing, ~ or family DNA has not been submitted and the missing report has not yet moved through the system.

 

[Bit of hope]

Identify Me: NL09 - The woman in the suitcase

This is new information as far as I know

The investigation indicated that the victim spent her childhood in areas north and east of Germany and probably came from Northern Scandinavia, Poland, or Russia. The young woman probably moved around during her adolescence (possibly between ages 16 and 22). It is likely that she spent the last months of her life in Western Europe, possibly in the Netherlands.

 

[dotr]

Identify Me: NL09 - The woman in the suitcase

This is new information as far as I know

The investigation indicated that the victim spent her childhood in areas north and east of Germany and probably came from Northern Scandinavia, Poland, or Russia. The young woman probably moved around during her adolescence (possibly between ages 16 and 22). It is likely that she spent the last months of her life in Western Europe, possibly in the Netherlands.

From link, thank you.

Unidentified dead woman - Thorbeckesingel - Schiedam | politie.nl

In the autumn of 2005, a red suitcase was seen lying in the canal at Thorbeckesingel, in a residential neighbourhood in Schiedam, the Netherlands. The suitcase was there for some time. A…

www.politie.nl