NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 5

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Prayers for Maura and the ones who have never given up the search for her
 
Wow!! What happened to everyone? Any new info or investigative options?
 
I have always thought that maybe she just walked off. I am not so sure now. But I don't think it was a serial killer. I will say this much, this is a very strange case indeed. But I really think it is important to keep talking about it and looking at all the angles.
 
nnglas said:
I have always thought that maybe she just walked off. I am not so sure now. But I don't think it was a serial killer. I will say this much, this is a very strange case indeed. But I really think it is important to keep talking about it and looking at all the angles.
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Yes, it is a strange case, indeed. Like you, I had the impression she walked away, and like you, I no longer am so convinced of that.

And, too, I have NO idea if any serial killer is involved, but it sure does seem like we have an outright epidemic of Missing Young Women throughout the United States.

It is very disconcerting. There's way too many.
 
Yes, there does seem to be an epidemic with young women missing. Very scary indeed.


I have always been interested in this case. But a couple of weeks ago, my car broke down (ran out of gas) at around 2am. It just bought everything back to my mind.

I could still see her behavior before the 2nd accident as suspect, but, I also have some serious questions about one of the police officers in the case.
 
thread awhile back( which came about as a direct result of Maura's disappearance) one of the speculations on the thread was about possible involvement of some elements of LE-because of prior misdeeds of LE in NH as well as a general "feel" that some type of a cover-up might have taken place.
I still have grave doubts about the thoroughness of the investigation of Maura's disappearance-not the least of which started when LE was soooo
quick to label her as "voluntarily missing" and then their apparent reversal after public questioning of this as well as Fred Murray and Sharon Rausch's tireless efforts to keep Maura's name in the media hoping some answers would be forthcoming.
I also had a current member of LE in a large city in the northeast US look at the info about the missing and murdered women in NH-and that person thought there were way too many based on current population info and that there was a real possibility there might be a serial killer operating in the area of Maura's disappearance.
If you haven't seen it-please see Boxerz' "map" of the missing and murdered in NH-it is quite eye-opening!
 
I have a question about this case maybe someone who is close to the family would know the answer.


The police officer, if I am not mistaken, Cecil Smith. Did he ever explain why he originally told the Murray family that he didn't know that a young girl was driving the car. Or am I getting that detail mixed up? Because I seem to remember that he looked for her with the SBD that night. Or maybe he didn't tell the family that. Can anyone verify this information, and if he did do that, anybody have any theories why he did that?
 
nnglas said:
I have a question about this case maybe someone who is close to the family would know the answer.


The police officer, if I am not mistaken, Cecil Smith. Did he ever explain why he originally told the Murray family that he didn't know that a young girl was driving the car. Or am I getting that detail mixed up? Because I seem to remember that he looked for her with the SBD that night. Or maybe he didn't tell the family that. Can anyone verify this information, and if he did do that, anybody have any theories why he did that?
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Unfortunately, I think you are correct. Although he spent time that night searching for Maura, he never called Fred Murray (owner of the car). He later claimed he didn't know a young girl was driving it. I don't know if he had a motive behind lying or was just lazy in regard to his job responsibilities.
 
Maura's dad, the registered owner of the car, was not contacted until late Tuesday afternoon.

As reported by Sharon Rausch from a journal she kept at the time of Maura's disappearance:

2/10/04 3:20 p.m -Fred receives a voice message on his home phone about his car being found abandoned near
Woodsville NH on the evening of February 9th. Fred’s answering machine notes the time of day as 3:20 PM EST. Fred is at work on a contracted job in another state and does not get the message until later.
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NOTES:

At approximately 5:00 or 5:30 PM Fred Murray receives a call from his daughter Kathleen. The Haverhill Police have reached her brother, Freddie Murray’s residence (Freddie resides with his mother Laurie Murray, younger brother and Maura when she is not at school.) The police reported to Freddie that they found an abandoned car owned by Frederick Murray. Freddie told them that was his sister’s car and they had to search for her. The policeman that talked to Freddie said that if she was missing, he would have to contact their local police department. When Freddie called the local police department he was told that he would have to call the University of Massachusetts at Amherst Police Department, Maura’s current residence. . Fred Murray, the father called Haverhill Police Department and begged them to start looking for Maura.
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There are two different household telephone numbers listed in Maura's dad's name...
 
was that Cecil Smith was not truthful about knowing that a young woman was driving(he knew from Atwood the description of the driver)-the fact that he was driving an SUV that was later rather abruptly sold by LE-and I have NEVER seen or heard a satisfactory explanation as to why that was...
 
there is some discussion on the Maura site now which echoes the new posts above about who lied--Cecil Smith, Atwood, the construction worker.

My two cents is that busdriver Atwood's lies were more self inflating and self protecting of his image, not to mention self defensive as he surely knew or thought that he was on the hook as the "last person" to see or to have any interaction with Maura before she disappeared. So he makes up a claim about having been a police officer in Taunton to boost his image when in fact he should have kept her car in view or gone to the Westmans the nearest neighbor, and later he says he "ran" into the house (all 350 lbs) to call for help when the Case Info timeline shows a gap of fourteen minutes between his call at 7.43pm and Westman's at 7.29pm.

Cecil Smith's lie to Sharon Rausch about not knowing the abandoned car was driven by a young female is clearly (it seems) designed to avoid responsibility for there having been no real or immediate search within the first 24-48 hours other than a little driving around the area by himself and Atwood. Whatever report he filed sat on someone's desk at the Haverhill police department on Tuesday 2/10/04 before calls were made to Mr Murray.

The CW (construction worker) lies are surely more important as to what really happened to Maura if in fact he saw her or passed her either at the scene or four miles east as his story claims. I and others have enumerated many scenarios as to his interaction with or observation of Maura. It has always been extremely suggestive to me that Lt Scarinza of NHSP dropped all reference to the CW sighting of her in the June 2004 summary of her case which he offered at the joint press conference held at Vermont State Police barracks on the two cases of Maura and of Brianna Maitland--whereas in May he had hailed the CW story as a breakthrough and the first real lead in the case. It seems he was less sure of the CW story a month later, and of course we have no idea of how the police have followed up with or investigated the CW's story except that it remains the last "lead" however questionable.
 
I wonder if this case will ever be solved. It makes it so hard when LE screws up so badly in the beginning. It is obvious that Maura didn't just get out of her car and walk to the ends of the earth :banghead:

I feel so bad for her family and everything that they have had to go through. Not only have they lost their daughter but they've had no help from LE. I don't doubt that there are cops that are involved with picking up young girls and doing things that they shouldn't. Heck, some cop could have stopped and picked Maura up. She probably would have gotten in a car with a cop thinking that he was going to help her. She was such a beautiful girl. Everytime I look at her picture I think how pretty she was and what a bright future she had ahead of her. Someone ended that future and I just hope and pray that she is found and her killer is caught and punished.
 
Ok, guys. I couldn't wait to get off work to tell you who I talked to today. A little background....... I work customer service for a big online shopping website. SO... I am one the phone this afternoon, and this lady calls because she is making a return, and needs the information to send the item back. So she goes on and on about how busy she is because she is in this television series that is just starting, and she says "oh let me plug my show" and she says something about this haunting show on ctv. I didn't really think much of it, so I asked her for her order number and when I pulled up the account, I read the name and I kept telling her it sounded familiar. Then I starting thinking about all the court tv stuff and I asked her "are you a psychic?" and she said yeah! Have your heard of me? It was Carla Baron!!!! I asked her if she had helped with the Maura Murray case, and she started talking about Fred Murray and a couple of other things. So you guys I tried to pump her for any inside information, and I think she gave me a little. And not pyschic predictions, real stuff. Anyway, I was wondering what kind of psychic is she. I know I can remember her name being mentioned a few times. But I am not sure how well she does. Anybody got any idea? She did give me her psychic theory about what happenned to Maura, but she gave me some factual things too. Not a lot but just a few interesting tidbits. She told me she worked on the Brianna Maitland case too. Im not sure if I can say what she said. But her psychic theory I guess would be ok. Anyway let me know what kind of psychic she is?
 
nnglas said:
Ok, guys. I couldn't wait to get off work to tell you who I talked to today. A little background....... I work customer service for a big online shopping website. SO... I am one the phone this afternoon, and this lady calls because she is making a return, and needs the information to send the item back. So she goes on and on about how busy she is because she is in this television series that is just starting, and she says "oh let me plug my show" and she says something about this haunting show on ctv. I didn't really think much of it, so I asked her for her order number and when I pulled up the account, I read the name and I kept telling her it sounded familiar. Then I starting thinking about all the court tv stuff and I asked her "are you a psychic?" and she said yeah! Have your heard of me? It was Carla Baron!!!! I asked her if she had helped with the Maura Murray case, and she started talking about Fred Murray and a couple of other things. So you guys I tried to pump her for any inside information, and I think she gave me a little. And not pyschic predictions, real stuff. Anyway, I was wondering what kind of psychic is she. I know I can remember her name being mentioned a few times. But I am not sure how well she does. Anybody got any idea? She did give me her psychic theory about what happenned to Maura, but she gave me some factual things too. Not a lot but just a few interesting tidbits. She told me she worked on the Brianna Maitland case too. Im not sure if I can say what she said. But her psychic theory I guess would be ok. Anyway let me know what kind of psychic she is?
Click to expand...

She is a full of herself and nonsense "psychic". Don't be fooled.
http://www.iigwest.com/carla_report.html
 
http://www.unionleader.com/article....rticleId=a5c92236-da30-4752-8658-c191adb51e3b

When adults disappear
By ELISE CASTELLI
Union Leader Correspondent


Derry – When Pail Gaffney vanished after leaving his Derry home for work in Massachusetts last month, there was no sign of foul play, no indication of an accident.

Derry police filed a report, followed up on leads gathered from interviews with friends and family of the 43-year-old, and put out a statewide “attempt to locate” bulletin.

Gaffney’s wife and six children were waiting and worrying. The disappearance was out of character, they said, for a man “you could set your watch by.”

But without evidence of a crime, police said, there was little more they could do because Gaffney, as an adult, had the right not to return home.

Bedford police found Gaffney — unharmed, in his car — on May 30, four days after his disappearance. They told him his family was worried and he should return home.

He did.

The Gaffney incident typifies the missing-persons cases they run across each year, police say. But other cases — such as those of college nursing student Maura Murray, who disappeared after a single-car crash in Haverhill more than two years ago, and Goffstown teen Laura Mackenzie, who was due to appear in court on shoplifting charges when she disappeared March 8 — underscore the fact that New Hampshire has no standard reporting requirements or procedures in missing-adult cases.

State Police Sgt. Robert Estabrook, who handles missing persons cases, said procedure is based circumstances. If a person appears to have disappeared voluntarily and without having committed a crime, he said, the person has the legal right to remain missing.

“(Adults) have the legal right to up and leave,” Estabrook said. “I can see how a loved one would be concerned with that, but you have a right to be missing.”

In some instances, Derry Police Capt. Vernon Thomas said, the person who filed the report poses a risk to the missing person.

“We have to be cautious about the source of the report,” Thomas said

Erin Bruno, director of case management for the National Center for Missing Adults, said 99 percent of all adults reported missing are found safe — and many don’t want contact with the family they deserted.

For families of the missing, that may be hard to accept, Bruno said.

“In the family’s defense, every minute a loved one is gone is a minute too many,” she said. “They’re thinking the worst.”

As of May 1, there were 108,801 people listed as missing in the National Crime Information Center database, including 50,177 adults. Because the NCIC has certain criteria for entering adults in the database, there may be many more missing adults who aren’t included in the center’s statistics, Bruno said.

According to the NCIC Web site, a missing adult can be entered into the national database if one of the following criteria is met:


The adult has a proven physical or mental disability;
The situation indicates physical danger;
The situation indicates the person is not missing voluntarily;
The person is missing after a catastrophe; or
There is reason to be concerned for the missing person’s safety.

Unless the missing fall into one of those categories, some police agencies are reluctant to take reports on adults, Bruno said.

New Hampshire law does mandate that adults falling into any of the NCIC categories be reported to NCIC within 72 hours of the initial report. Federal law mandates all missing children be entered in the database regardless of circumstance.

At any given moment, there are at least 70 to 90 cases missing New Hampshire children and adults listed in the NCIC, said Estabrook.

When the disappearance is voluntary, the reasons for disappearing may be as disparate as the missing themselves, Bruno said. It could stem from family or marital troubles, from abuse, from debt, from addiction or crime.

“Sometimes we don’t know what’s happened,” she said.

Thomas, of the Derry Police, said the nature of the investigation depends on the circumstances.

Reports, bulletins, and interviews with relatives and friends are the standard in Derry on adult cases, he said. Family members are also told they should monitor bank, credit card and cell phone activity on statements, as the information can provide leads to the missing adult, Thomas said.

Often the investigation doesn’t get very far before there is a break.

“Most (missing persons) turn up fairly quickly,” Thomas said.

But not all cases turn out like the Gaffney case.

Maura Murray remains missing more than two years after vanishing at age 21 after crashing her car in Haverhill.

Her father, Frederick Murray, recently filed an appeal with the state Supreme Court to unseal police records on her case. In an interview this week, he said reports from the early days of the case hold important clues that could be used by his team of private investigators to find his daughter.

Murray alleges the police are using claims of an ongoing investigation to avoid disclosure. In fact, he said, there is no active police investigation.

Bruno, the missing adults caseworker, said she would like to see national standards adopted that would require uniform investigation procedures for children and adults.

“If there is not clear evidence of a crime, it doesn’t mean the person was not a victim; there is just no evidence of it,” she said.

One of the leads on Goffstown Police are pursuing in the Mackenzie case involves the timing of the teen’s disappearance: the same day as her scheduled court date. Nevertheless, Goffstown Police Detective Kevin Laroche told the New Hampshire Union Leader, the case is “baffling.”

Laroche said a yearbook message Mackenzie wrote last fall sounded like much of what she had written in diaries and poetry, and seemed to forecast her disappearance. But, he added, it was so long before Mackenzie actually disappeared, “We still think it was the arrest that made her run.”

What exactly made Gaffney run, the family hasn’t said definitively. On the day he returned his daughter Pauline said, “We’re just happy to have him home and want to spend as much time with him as possible.”

For many families of the still missing that is all they want.
 
Hello everyone!


I just wanted to thank the people who have sent me pms regarding Carla Baron. Everybody has been most helpful and informative.

I have decided after much thought not to post publicly anything that Mrs Baron told me. Although much of what she said has been published by the media and online. There are a few reasons why I have decide not to repeat what she told me....

1. Although I don't think anything she said was hurtful, I wouldn't want to take the chance that the family get upset.

2. I don't want it to turn into a debate on how accurate psychic visions are.

3. I don't want to convolute the situation with supposition and opinion (enough of that already)

In defense of Mrs Baron, she really seemed like a nice person. But according to the pms I received, Mrs Baron is either a well meaning flake or a phony out to make money. I don't know which, but I suspect that she is really no different from us. In that we hope with open dialogue and developing theories it may someday lead us to Maura.


PS I do intend to respond to all of the PMs I received. Just wanted to go ahead and post this.
 
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