NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #19

[laytonian]

I think if he walked away it was with help and he was advised by someone who had some experience at helping people hide. JMVHO.

Really? There's people who do that, other than the info in books?

I've often wondered about a connection to Erick Wales....who held a similar job as Steven's Trib job, went missing a few months later, left his car abandoned away from where he lived, etc, etc.

Then, was located "out of the country".

Neither of them would have had any trouble leaving the country and entering Mexico, without a passport; it'd just be when they tried to re-enter.

 

[Fairy1]

Really? There's people who do that, other than the info in books?

I've often wondered about a connection to Erick Wales....who held a similar job as Steven's Trib job, went missing a few months later, left his car abandoned away from where he lived, etc, etc.

Then, was located "out of the country".

Neither of them would have had any trouble leaving the country and entering Mexico, without a passport; it'd just be when they tried to re-enter.

I know there are people who help victims of domestic violence "disappear." I suppose they really could help anyone if they wanted to. But why Steven? Would he really seek that type of assistance? Seems pretty extreme to me.

If Mexico was Steven's ultimate destination, why just go as far as Vegas? He could have driven to San Diego and walked into Mexico. Which is probably what Erick Wales did.

Unless he was going with a friend from Vegas and they left together from here?

But then, who's to say he left Vegas at all? If that really is the case, we have NO idea where to look.

 

[webrocket]

Really? There's people who do that, other than the info in books?

I don't think we are talking about someone who has fabricated new identity documents for Steven.

I think what Believe was saying, and I'm not putting words in Believe's mouth is that this person told Steven how to hide his tracks. that is, don't use a home computer or his known cell phone when communicating between the two. make everything look as normal as possible up to the last minute, then leave the car in the appointed spot, walk a block or two to my waiting car then we leave.

think about it. downtown Vegas is filled with security cameras so that is not where anyone would want to walk away from a car. I think the other guy had some working knowledge of SCA but did not live there - you don't s--t where you sleep. it was a quiet place to leave the car and by walking the block or two it put a degree of distance - both time and place between the abandonment and the pick up. so if someone saw him get out of his own car, it was not likely that the same person would see him get into the next car.

I only hope Steven is happy where he is. I can see all the reasons why he'd want to bail, however painful that decision was to his family.

 

[laytonian]

I know there are people who help victims of domestic violence "disappear." I suppose they really could help anyone if they wanted to. But why Steven? Would he really seek that type of assistance? Seems pretty extreme to me.

If Mexico was Steven's ultimate destination, why just go as far as Vegas? He could have driven to San Diego and walked into Mexico. Which is probably what Erick Wales did.

Unless he was going with a friend from Vegas and they left together from here?

But then, who's to say he left Vegas at all? If that really is the case, we have NO idea where to look.

Why would he stay in Vegas?
If he wanted to go there, why didn't he park his car in Vegas?

Unless he was evading law enforcement, I see no reason for him to use someone else to help him "hide". The Mormons don't chase people. The "lost boys" are sent away by Fundies, not hunted down. They live in the open.

His family sees him as a crime victim. Someone who would never leave them or stay away unless he was being held hostage or something.

But there's no evidence of that.
He walked down the street willingly. I think it's entirely possible his family underestimated him, in many ways. He went to St George to be "alone", it seems....and that may have been his base for planning.

 

[Fairy1]

I don't think we are talking about someone who has fabricated new identity documents for Steven.

I think what Believe was saying, and I'm not putting words in Believe's mouth is that this person told Steven how to hide his tracks. that is, don't use a home computer or his known cell phone when communicating between the two. make everything look as normal as possible up to the last minute, then leave the car in the appointed spot, walk a block or two to my waiting car then we leave.

think about it. downtown Vegas is filled with security cameras so that is not where anyone would want to walk away from a car. I think the other guy had some working knowledge of SCA but did not live there - you don't s--t where you sleep. it was a quiet place to leave the car and by walking the block or two it put a degree of distance - both time and place between the abandonment and the pick up. so if someone saw him get out of his own car, it was not likely that the same person would see him get into the next car.

I only hope Steven is happy where he is. I can see all the reasons why he'd want to bail, however painful that decision was to his family.

I'm inclined to agree with you web. It's virtually impossible to unintentionally cover your tracks these days. Even if Steven set out to do that, there are cell phone pings and a home surveillance system that caught him on tape - both of which have played into why we're all still here a year later!

 

[Fairy1]

Why would he stay in Vegas?
If he wanted to go there, why didn't he park his car in Vegas?

Unless he was evading law enforcement, I see no reason for him to use someone else to help him "hide". The Mormons don't chase people. The "lost boys" are sent away by Fundies, not hunted down. They live in the open.

His family sees him as a crime victim. Someone who would never leave them or stay away unless he was being held hostage or something.

But there's no evidence of that.
He walked down the street willingly. I think it's entirely possible his family underestimated him, in many ways. He went to St George to be "alone", it seems....and that may have been his base for planning.

If he was headed elsewhere, why go to Vegas at all and leave his car in an unassuming retirement community in Henderson? What was the point of that?

IMO, the move to St. George was one degree of distancing himself from his family. Perhaps what he did December 13, 2009 was meant to sever the ties completely. As a mother, I really believe that would hurt me more than having one of my children fall victim to a killer.

But that's just me.

 

[Lato]

We seem to just hit the wall repeatedly. SK is missing...period. I can't picture him anywhere. I used to think of him in the middle of SCA, but I no longer think he is there.

Earlier in the year I was in Louisiana. There is an LDS Church at the end of the road. I found myself just watching members as they left to go to their cars. And I guess it
is no stranger than looking for him anywhere in the US.

If he is alive, I do wish he would send his parents a Christmas card...!

 

[webrocket]

Unless he was evading law enforcement, I see no reason for him to use someone else to help him "hide". The Mormons don't chase people. The "lost boys" are sent away by Fundies, not hunted down. They live in the open.

I don't think Steven had the foresight to plan much. look where his own decision making left him - single, no girlfriend, practically jobless and penniless in St. George, a town quite far from the family's home base around SLC.

he saw another way out and this other guy coached him along. I said at the very beginning of the first thread that this process started before he left SLC for St. George. that move was to put time and distance between him and his family so he could be closer to this new person while testing the waters. when he felt the time was right, he made his move.

I see this all as a continuum of behavior. I know others disagree, but I have seen it this way from day one.

 

[laytonian]

I don't think we are talking about someone who has fabricated new identity documents for Steven.

I think what Believe was saying, and I'm not putting words in Believe's mouth is that this person told Steven how to hide his tracks. that is, don't use a home computer or his known cell phone when communicating between the two. make everything look as normal as possible up to the last minute, then leave the car in the appointed spot, walk a block or two to my waiting car then we leave.

I hear you, but there's a major fly in that ointment: the usage of his cell phone *after* that "last minute". That's the giveaway.
Certainly, Daddy Warbucks would have taken that phone away from him as soon as they met after the car drop.

think about it. downtown Vegas is filled with security cameras so that is not where anyone would want to walk away from a car. I think the other guy had some working knowledge of SCA but did not live there - you don't s--t where you sleep. it was a quiet place to leave the car and by walking the block or two it put a degree of distance - both time and place between the abandonment and the pick up. so if someone saw him get out of his own car, it was not likely that the same person would see him get into the next car.

I only hope Steven is happy where he is. I can see all the reasons why he'd want to bail, however painful that decision was to his family.

Outside of an alternative lifestyle issue between he and his parents (that we have no evidence of), I see no reason to bail.

He'd already "bailed" when he went to St George. He only talked to them once a week, and he obviously depended on them for help (ie, they paid his cellphone bill on the family plan, etc).

 

[Fairy1]

I hear you, but there's a major fly in that ointment: the usage of his cell phone *after* that "last minute". That's the giveaway.
Certainly, Daddy Warbucks would have taken that phone away from him as soon as they met after the car drop.

Unless they knew they would be hitting the road before anyone even realized Steven was missing.

Outside of an alternative lifestyle issue between he and his parents (that we have no evidence of), I see no reason to bail.

He'd already "bailed" when he went to St George. He only talked to them once a week, and he obviously depended on them for help (ie, they paid his cellphone bill on the family plan, etc).

Maybe the "alternative" lifestyle Steven desired was nothing more than leaving the Church of LDS and living his life on his terms - without depending on anyone else.

People who know Steven have told us he was very spiritual. Isn't it possible that the time after he left northern Utah was spent soul-searching without the pressures of family? His leaving doesn't have to be tied to anything dark or nefarious. From where I'm sitting, I can understand how he may have felt let-down by his church world.

 

[Fairy1]

We seem to just hit the wall repeatedly. SK is missing...period. I can't picture him anywhere. I used to think of him in the middle of SCA, but I no longer think he is there.

Earlier in the year I was in Louisiana. There is an LDS Church at the end of the road. I found myself just watching members as they left to go to their cars. And I guess it
is no stranger than looking for him anywhere in the US.

If he is alive, I do wish he would send his parents a Christmas card...!

I can't picture him anywhere either. Then again, I picture him everywhere. But always alive.

 

[laytonian]

Unless they knew they would be hitting the road before anyone even realized Steven was missing.

It's still a problem. It left a trail AWAY from the car. Why do all of that planning to arrange a meeting and drop off a car....and then ruin it by using the cellphone elsewhere.

Maybe the "alternative" lifestyle Steven desired was nothing more than leaving the Church of LDS and living his life on his terms - without depending on anyone else.

People who know Steven have told us he was very spiritual. Isn't it possible that the time after he left northern Utah was spent soul-searching without the pressures of family? His leaving doesn't have to be tied to anything dark or nefarious. From where I'm sitting, I can understand how he may have felt let-down by his church world.

Could be, but why disappear?
Utah is full if "Jack Mormons" (ie, people who are still members, but do not live the life, tithe, attend church or believe in the teachings).
Utah's also full of people whose public face is "devout" but they are definitely not (and that applies to other religions, too).

Going to Las Vegas, which is heavily Mormon, wouldn't be an "escape" if he was running from religion.

I still think the bill collector was a collection agency trying to repo his car, and that he left it where he did, so it would be found by his family -- with the Christmas gifts inside.

 

[Fairy1]

It's still a problem. It left a trail AWAY from the car. Why do all of that planning to arrange a meeting and drop off a car....and then ruin it by using the cellphone elsewhere.

Well, it worked, didn't it! Those cell phone pings have not led anyone to Steven. The clues died with that phone.

Could be, but why disappear?
Utah is full if "Jack Mormons" (ie, people who are still members, but do not live the life, tithe, attend church or believe in the teachings).
Utah's also full of people whose public face is "devout" but they are definitely not (and that applies to other religions, too).

Going to Las Vegas, which is heavily Mormon, wouldn't be an "escape" if he was running from religion.

Maybe Steven knew or believed he would not be accepted by his family if he left the church. And yes, there is a huge Mormon population in Vegas, but there are a LOT of other folks here too. It wouldn't be difficult to shed your LDS self here.

I have two very good friends who were raised LDS and, as adults, have left the church physically - but not spiritually. One is a woman who took up with a married man. She had a 12 year relationship with this man and, knowing it would not be acceptable in the church, stopped "going." She is still as Mormon as they come. And, thankfully, still very much accepted and loved by her own family.

My other friend, a young man, is gay. Also very Mormon, but knows he cannot go to church. He, too, is accepted and loved by his family. And is still very Mormon.

Both of my friends attended BYU and both struggle with their decisions, but they are NOT hypocrites and that's important to them. But they are still LDS and will be until they take their last breaths!

I still think the bill collector was a collection agency trying to repo his car, and that he left it where he did, so it would be found by his family -- with the Christmas gifts inside.

But why? Why didn't he just leave his car at his own home? Did his family need the car? Were his folks co-signers on the loan? Do we know whatever became of it?

 

[seekingsusan]

So if Steven did walk away, why didn't he take an extra pair of pants, a change of underware, something (anything!) besides a file folder? No one going through his belongings would have recognized a pair of pants missing or would have counted his underware to ensure it was all present. No matter where Steven intended to start his new life (If that's what one believes happened), he could have used these and other basic things that wouldn't have been missed by the people left behind to sort through his stuff. Steven didn't walk away with a duffel bag...even though he could have. This to me means he didn't walk away. Did his new life come with a new wardrobe? Was he all of the sudden going to have the funds to replace EVERYTHING he's ever owned, down to his socks? I just don't think so.

And if Steven left his car behind with the knowledge that it would be repossessed, why keep the keys? Why not lock them inside, since he would have no use for them. Steven kept the keys, in my opinion, because he had every intention of returning to his car. If he wanted it towed, repossessed, found, whatever, he should have parked in front of someones house, in their driveway, or on top of a fire hydrant, but he didn't....he parked it in the only area in SCA that it might possibly go unnoticed. And to me, that doesn't add up to someone who walked away.

But I'm just as stumped as ever.....

 

[laytonian]

So if Steven did walk away, why didn't he take an extra pair of pants, a change of underware, something (anything!) besides a file folder? No one going through his belongings would have recognized a pair of pants missing or would have counted his underware to ensure it was all present. No matter where Steven intended to start his new life (If that's what one believes happened), he could have used these and other basic things that wouldn't have been missed by the people left behind to sort through his stuff. Steven didn't walk away with a duffel bag...even though he could have. This to me means he didn't walk away. Did his new life come with a new wardrobe? Was he all of the sudden going to have the funds to replace EVERYTHING he's ever owned, down to his socks? I just don't think so.

And if Steven left his car behind with the knowledge that it would be repossessed, why keep the keys? Why not lock them inside, since he would have no use for them. Steven kept the keys, in my opinion, because he had every intention of returning to his car. If he wanted it towed, repossessed, found, whatever, he should have parked in front of someones house, in their driveway, or on top of a fire hydrant, but he didn't....he parked it in the only area in SCA that it might possibly go unnoticed. And to me, that doesn't add up to someone who walked away.

But I'm just as stumped as ever.....

Good points.

He could have, on Saturday, taken some personal items to a pick-up point I guess....but yeah, he even left his shaving kit in the car.

Those thoughts lead back to self-harm or crime victim

 

[jmarple]

So if Steven did walk away, why didn't he take an extra pair of pants, a change of underware, something (anything!) besides a file folder? No one going through his belongings would have recognized a pair of pants missing or would have counted his underware to ensure it was all present. No matter where Steven intended to start his new life (If that's what one believes happened), he could have used these and other basic things that wouldn't have been missed by the people left behind to sort through his stuff. Steven didn't walk away with a duffel bag...even though he could have. This to me means he didn't walk away. Did his new life come with a new wardrobe? Was he all of the sudden going to have the funds to replace EVERYTHING he's ever owned, down to his socks? I just don't think so.

And if Steven left his car behind with the knowledge that it would be repossessed, why keep the keys? Why not lock them inside, since he would have no use for them. Steven kept the keys, in my opinion, because he had every intention of returning to his car. If he wanted it towed, repossessed, found, whatever, he should have parked in front of someones house, in their driveway, or on top of a fire hydrant, but he didn't....he parked it in the only area in SCA that it might possibly go unnoticed. And to me, that doesn't add up to someone who walked away.

But I'm just as stumped as ever.....

Remember Eric Wales left without taking anything either. He did make a withdrawal at an ATM prior to his disappearance. He left his car where it would be found easily, too.

 

[SugarJames]

What if we took all we knew and started over...but instead of looking for the evidence of crime...look at that possiblity no crime or foul play has beeen commited...what might we find?

 

[laytonian]

Remember Eric Wales left without taking anything either. He did make a withdrawal at an ATM prior to his disappearance. He left his car where it would be found easily, too.

VERY good. Thanks.
I always think about the two cases together, because of the similarities.

Supposedly-religious, no problems, no reason to disappear, "straight arrow" -- yet, Wales left to another country leaving his "girlfriend" (erm...beard, IMO) behind.

 

[jokie7348]

I have followed Steven's threads since the beginning. So many of you have worked so hard. It's disappointing not to have any new information, as well as to see his thread disappear from page 1.
So here's a bump for Steven. Where in the world are you?

 

[believe09]

Thank you Jokie...