OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

[airportwoman]

has to be an error.
The boy is 8 years old, the girl 6. Veronica was 27. So she was 19 when she had the boy. Highly doubtful she'd have 4 others.

Not necessarily. Regardless, Veronica was the mother of the two children in the custody dispute, and Jillian had 4 kids by her husband.

 

[Bree1950]

We do, as he’s named in the affidavit. He’s not charged at this stage though, which may indicate some sort of deal.

I don’t think they would make a deal before he was charged. I’m thinking somehow he assisted LE

 

[simlyme]

I don’t think they would make a deal before he was charged. I’m thinking somehow he assisted LE

could he have gotten immunity ?

 

[simlyme]

Can I please get a link to the affidavit for the 4 . I thought I had them from NN ,but it seems they took it down

 

[GRT]

If the group was anti-government then they likely shared a distrust of the government at a deep level, including the government agency - Child Protective Services. They were on a mission, Cora and Cole said, and that mission was likely to save the Butler children from decisions the government might make. They likely all believed the same thing, shared the same worldview, so to speak. Butler and Kelly were the enemy. The children had to be saved. I think that was how they saw it and that was their mission. I don't think it was just TA. She may have been a controlling presence, but I think the others acted out of the same beliefs and world view.

JMO.

I think that's probably correct. From what CW told of her parents and the group at large, they seemed to see the world as "us versus them," with "them" being the government. A lot of what is posted on their Facebook pages backs that up.

These fringe groups (not all of them, certainly) risk convincing one another that they need to take action to correct society's wrongs—at least what they think of as wrongs.

I'm reminded of the Montana Freemen and an earlier group called The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA).

God's Misfits (thankfully) never got that far, but I think they were aptly named.

No matter what they call themselves, they're gangs made up of weak individuals who find strength in the collective. To me (MOO), there's not a significant difference between inner-city gangs meting out drive-by justice and this group of misfits convincing one another they had a righteous mission to kill the mother of TA's grandchildren. They did the worst possible thing they could have done.

That's an inherent problem when moral absolutism develops, as it seems to have done here.

My guess is that someone in local LE was aware of this group, and that's why the FBI was brought in so quickly.

The above is all MOO.

 

[otto]

Snipped BBM
Educate me anyone, why is Kidnapping listed so many times? I’m confused why it would need to be listed more than twice! TIA
1. MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE - DELIBERATE INTENT

2. MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE - DELIBERATE INTENT

3. KIDNAPPING, in violation of 21 O.S. 741

3. KIDNAPPING, in violation of 21 O.S. 741

3. KIDNAPPING, in violation of 21 O.S. 741

4. KIDNAPPING, in violation of 21 O.S. 741

4. KIDNAPPING, in violation of 21 O.S. 741

4. KIDNAPPING, in violation of 21 O.S. 741

5. CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE - DELIBERATE INTENT

Maybe they were charged with kidnapping the children as well? By court order, the children were required to be available to Veronica at 10 a.m. Instead, the children were put in the care of another couple and the four accused murders intended to prevent the children from seeing their mother.

 

[Curious Me]

Or Cora is a big fat braggy liar in addition to a murderer. Remember, CW says Cora told her he was part of it. We don't know if he was or not.

So confused by all the initials. Please help me. Who is CW?

Has anyone seen this yet? It's in the court documents posted on this story. I can't imagine they would allow CW to go back home after that frightening incident.
View attachment 497361

I thought the children were with Rickman, their father, at another location when the women disappeared, but apparently he was locked up in rehab at the time. Evil planning, MOO, Grandma wasn't right in the head to even have custody of those children.​

Court Documents: 4 suspects in missing Kansas women case part of anti-government group

Court documents show the details of the investigation that led to the arrest of four suspects in the murders of Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley.

www.newschannel10.com

Butler’s attorney informed OSBI that Butler was likely to receive unsupervised visitation with her children at that hearing.

At times, Adams refused to let Rickman have his children, even though he had legal custody of them.

Law enforcement previously responded to a call for service where Adams refused to give Rickman his children.

Rickman’s grandmother reported in February 2024, Rickman told her they didn’t have to worry about the custody battle much longer because Adams had it under control, that Adams knew the path the judge walked to work, and “we will take out Veronica at drop off.”

Rickman was confirmed to be in a rehabilitation facility in Oklahoma City at the time of the disappearance.​

 

[otto]

It doesn't sound like it based on what's stated in the AA. The road was blocked to force them to take a route that was manned by other members of the group, to include TA. The scene sounds like some sort of ambush.

Veronica and Jilian were heading South. Cora and Cole blocked the road forcing them to turn onto the side road heading North. Tifany and Tad must have been heading South on that same road. Veronica and Jilian would have been trapped between the two couples.

Veronica's glasses and the hammer were found South of her car. It's possible that as soon as she saw Tifany and Tad, she got out of her car and ran South, not realizing that Cora and Cole were equally dangerous.

 

[otto]

So confused by all the initials. Please help me. Who is CW?

I thought the children were with Rickman, their father, at another location when the women disappeared, but apparently he was locked up in rehab at the time. Evil planning, MOO, Grandma wasn't right in the head to even have custody of those children.​

Court Documents: 4 suspects in missing Kansas women case part of anti-government group

Court documents show the details of the investigation that led to the arrest of four suspects in the murders of Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley.

www.newschannel10.com

Butler’s attorney informed OSBI that Butler was likely to receive unsupervised visitation with her children at that hearing.

At times, Adams refused to let Rickman have his children, even though he had legal custody of them.

Law enforcement previously responded to a call for service where Adams refused to give Rickman his children.

Rickman’s grandmother reported in February 2024, Rickman told her they didn’t have to worry about the custody battle much longer because Adams had it under control, that Adams knew the path the judge walked to work, and “we will take out Veronica at drop off.”

Rickman was confirmed to be in a rehabilitation facility in Oklahoma City at the time of the disappearance.​

View attachment 497477

Cora has a 16 year old daughter with initials CW.

 

[mrjitty]

That's the stupid thing though, she's there, but there's no reason at all for her to be there. She had these other people doing her bidding, and if she was smart, she'd be waiting at the pickup spot with the kids, knowing full well they'd never make it. Then after "waiting a while," she could go home and claim she thought the plans had changed, and make a bunch of calls to Veronica's powered down phone for good measure.

This still would have all gone to hell, but it's just so mind boggling stupid that I can't get over it.

The mind boggling stupidly, plus the casual brutality. That friends were involved, and casually murdered someone not connected to the dispute is just wild.

 

[Seattle1]

It's hilarious that they are clearly idiots based on their murder plot, but you can assume their group believes that like minded idiots in their group should be responsible for running the world.

JMO

I'm not sure about the world but it seemed to me that TA and her posse believed they ruled the OK panhandle, a 166-mile-long strip of land extending west toward New Mexico, and 34 miles wide-- the only thing separating Texas from Kansas and Colorado!

The Secret History of the Oklahoma Panhandle

In this week's Maphead, Ken Jennings explains how the Oklahoma panhandle went from unclaimed land to bootlegger's paradise—and is now a road-trip destination.

www.cntraveler.com

 

[otto]

The mind boggling stupidly, plus the casual brutality. That friends were involved, and casually murdered someone not connected to the dispute is just wild.

The four suspects decided that Veronica was an unfit mother who deserved to die, and anyone who was a friend of hers deserved to die too - even though Veronica and Jilian were not friends. Jilian was a paid supervisor.

"When the daughter asked what happened, she was told “that things did not go as planned, but that they would not have to worry about her (Butler) again.”

The daughter asked about Kelley and why she had to die “and was told by Cora that she wasn’t innocent either, as she had supported Butler.”

Court Documents: 4 suspects in missing Kansas women case part of anti-government group

Court documents show the details of the investigation that led to the arrest of four suspects in the murders of Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley.

www.newschannel10.com

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Can I please get a link to the affidavit for the 4 . I thought I had them from NN ,but it seems they took it down

https://ktul.com/resources/pdf/7b4d818f-4930-4ef8-8b11-1c37ccf87680-texascountycasecourtdocs.pdf

 

[Seattle1]

I'm curious about that too. Wrangler Rickman had custody, Tifany Adams did not. Why did the officer refuse to enforce the court order? Why did he allow a third party, who did not have a legal right to the children, keep the children as opposed to returning the children to the rightful custodial parent?

This might be the tip of the iceberg in terms of Tifany Adams controlling the police rather than police enforcing court orders.

The officer said he believed that the children were better off with Tifany Adams, but it's not his right to make that decision.

IMO, both Veronica and Wrangler were long afraid of TA.

In one of her earlier pleadings, Veronica quoted Wrangler as saying that he believed his mother had LE police in her pocket. I think LE telling the father his kids were better off with his mother (i.e., their grandmother) sounds about right under the circumstances as we know them. MOO

 

[simlyme]

Anyone notice that T and T have different addresses on the affidavits ?
Can't wait to see them ALL losing their homes , properties and land for good.

 

[simlyme]

properties given on the affidavits. I used initials for the 2 and name for the other 2. I'm sorry my pictures will not upload

 

[GRT]

That's the stupid thing though, she's there, but there's no reason at all for her to be there. She had these other people doing her bidding, and if she was smart, she'd be waiting at the pickup spot with the kids, knowing full well they'd never make it. Then after "waiting a while," she could go home and claim she thought the plans had changed, and make a bunch of calls to Veronica's powered down phone for good measure.

This still would have all gone to hell, but it's just so mind boggling stupid that I can't get over it.

It makes me wonder if she craved the look on VB's face when she realized TA had gotten the upper hand -- forever. TA seems power-hungry enough to need that sort of vengeful fix.

It tells me TA is not just power-hungry but also incredibly cruel.

I hope they hold her without bail. I think she poses a clear danger to CW and anyone else who crosses her.

 

[GRT]

I haven’t seen anything else that suggests that VB already had six children at the age of 27.

Reading through that article also reminded me that TA named her son “Wrangler.”

I am trying to picture an infant boy being called Wrangler…is that a common enough name out that way in Kansas and Oklahoma? Over here in the Northeast, I have never known or heard of anyone by that given name. Like naming your son “Cowboy.”

JMO

Not here in Kansas, but the panhandle of Oklahoma kind of seems like a throwback to the Wild West.

MOO

 

[Seattle1]

Okay, strange question. If VB and JK were likely murdered at the site where the car was found, how are there kidnapping charges?

In nearly every state including OK, the criminal definition of kidnapping includes illegal seizure or confinement of another person against his or her will for any purpose.

In this case, being a decoy and/or blocking the road and causing the woman to go off of Hwy 95 on to L Road where their vehicle was found abandoned can constitute kidnapping under the law.

2023 Oklahoma Statutes :: Title 21. Crimes and Punishments :: §21-741. Kidnapping defined.

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

ETA: from TC's AA

 

[imstilla.grandma]

For instance, it is said that in the 1880s, rancher Jim Beasley killed the last wild buffalo in No Man's Land but not for sport or profit.

"It was an old bull that got kicked out of its herd and took up with the cattle. They'd look out at the haystack and he'd be up on top of it," said Prentis "Cap" Beasley, 88, of Guymon, Jim Beasley's son.

"They finally killed it when it got so old it couldn't eat."

And once, Cap Beasley said his father told him, several buffalo mixed with the cattle and couldn't be cut out at roundup time, and wound up being shipped by rail with them to Kansas City "and the damn things brought about three times more than the cows did."

Panhandle Stories Varied As Tumbling Tumbleweeds

There perhaps are as many centennial-type stories in the Oklahoma Panhandle as there are yucca plants and tumbleweeds. For instance, it is said that in the 1880s, rancher Jim Beasley killed the last …

www.oklahoman.com

‘God’s Land, But No Man’s’ — that’s what the New York Sun called it, and for once an Eastern newspaperman got something right about the West. The writer was describing an ancient, hard, unforgiving land, domain of the terrible Comanche time out of mind. In winter, murderous northers howled down out of Kansas and Colorado to freeze men and animals. For the rest of the year the winds were generally southerly, ranging all the way from gentle breezes to shrieking gales that drove great clouds of dust before them.

The Santa Fe Trail passed through part of it, winding down out of Kansas, bound southwest for old Santa Fe. After statehood in 1907, the region began to be called the Oklahoma Panhandle. Today, it comprises the three busy agricultural counties of Cimarron, Beaver and Texas, but during the 1850s, ’60s, ’70s and ’80s, it had no government at all.

Oklahoma Panhandle: Badmen in No Man's Land

Until the last decade of the 19th Century, the long, narrow strip that would become known as the Oklahoma Panhandle had no government and plenty of men who didn't mind at all.

www.historynet.com