Raymond Clark III

[Kat]

Does anyone know what happens at this court appearance?

I am not familiar with CT court procedures and statutes.

My *guess* is that he will be able to make a plea if his lawyer is ready at that time for him to do so.

I'm not sure if he has to enter a plea, at that date.

Sometimes the plea is deferred if the lawyer has not had the chance to fully review the documents in the case.

JMHO.

 

[Noway]

No legal eagle here, but doesn't he have to enter a plea so they know how to proceed?

If he enters a plea of guilty, he has admitted his guilt and forfeits his right to trial. There is no trial and the judge sentences.

If he enters plea of not guilty, then he goes to trial and must be tried and convicted before being sentenced.

I do not think there would be much likelihood of the prosecution offering a deal with the forensic evidence they have and the surveillance.

A problem the prosecution may face is that they did not secure the building she was last seen in (and subsequently found in) and people were in and out of that area. However, AFAIK, nobody else's DNA was found on Annie Le.

 

[Noway]

We need a Connecticut lawyer familiar with felony murder charges to comment!

 

[Normcar21]

I do not see that he fits it at all. :crazy:
I really do not think we know enough about this guy.
we have many reports from people who say he is a great guy.

I agree very much with your statement, I really do not think we know enough about this guy.

I would like to know a whole lot more about this individual, without considering minor things that have actually been posted as seeming major revelations in various HLN programs. A neighbor especially who seems to have a chip on her shoulder about him, she mentions such incidentals as "staring and not talking" or "hearing a few arguments" in the apartment, or "not acting loving enough" to his girlfriend. I mean, gimmee a break, every married couple in America has days like that and moments like that...don't they?

Some of the wood chip rot that I am hearing on major national programs about this guy are laughable, IMO, and are so damned subjective that they are like the individual who uses binoculars from across the street, nightly, to discover major trouble with the neighbors simply because he or she is bored to death and is looking for someone to hate or grist for a good fiction book.

That one neighbor, what's her name, is one excellent case in point. It's like she sits up at night coming up with new things that she has discovered over the months about this guy. Every time I hear her speak she adds another "reason" why RC is a maniac hunter nutcase.

Maybe she's right, clearly he seems to have had some nasty relationships in the past. Let's hear more about that, more of the good, more of the bad, from "different" individuals in his past history, and "recent" past, not high school, that's old stuff and give the guy credit for possibly changing.

He was bossy, yes, he had a history of making demands, yes, he was a neat dresser, he was athletic, he had a whole lot of male friends who had a whole lot of nice things to say about him, to the point of defending him internationally on Larry King, he talked rudely to his girlfriend, according to that "neighbor" who seems to come up with a whole lot of new things every time she is interviewed.

I'd like to hear more from the girlfriend, the one he had at the time of the crime, not one from years ago, or some high school 4 year old response.

All of the above relates only to what "songline" indicated above:

I repeat songline's words: I really do not think we know enough about this guy.

Nor do I.:twocents:

 

[Shlock Homes]

I agree. This didn't sound at all like a ticking time bomb. If he came across as bossy in the work place, it may be because he's entrusted with a difficult job that students might not appreciate. Any contamination could invalidate the results of their experiment. Perhaps some students were put off by his rigid controls. If he was at that position for more than 2 years, he would know what he's talking about.

To me, unless they can really place him at the scene of the crime, I think there's too much doubt in whether he was even capable of this. Even failing a polygraph isn't good enough because it's not reliable. Guilty people can pass them if they don't care about what they've done, and not guilty can fail them if their anxiety prone. And giving up DNA, well, it's his right to refuse. We're not cattle who should be expected to give up our DNA ever time a crime is committed in our vicinity. The DNA evidence should only be used once the suspect is in custody and they have enough evidence to charge them.

 

[Sola.N]

I'd like to hear more from the girlfriend, the one he had at the time of the crime, not one from years ago, or some high school 4 year old response.

GMA had the high school girlfriend on this morning, and the kind of guy she describes sounds like a few I dated in high school and college. Yeah, some guys are insecure, controlling jerks at that age, but they don't necessarily grow up to be murderers.

Long ago before I knew better, I dated guys who were/are capable of this kind of murder, and there's a big, big difference between them and little control freak insecure types. I tend to think of RC as the latter.

 

[songline]

I refuse to stand on line to hang someone. Much more needs to be known about this case.
IMHO standing on line to hang someone without knowing very much is not a sign of
character or strength, this is not judgement day yet, and it does not produce justice and fairness. JMO.
(having said that: when it comes to a perp who harmed JC Dugard, with a previous record,
of violence, I would be the first to pull the trigger).

I do not think his (Clark's) friends were losers, as I have read here, just because they came
to his defense and said he was a great guy. All they did is give an honest account of a
relationship they have had with him for many years.
Surely they DO know far more about him, then us who just bumped into this story.

I have been known to call people like that "stir pot" they live in every neighborhood.
includine mine I think they lack character.

 

[songline]

I agree very much with your statement, I really do not think we know enough about this guy.

I would like to know a whole lot more about this individual, without considering minor things that have actually been posted as seeming major revelations in various HLN programs. A neighbor especially who seems to have a chip on her shoulder about him, she mentions such incidentals as "staring and not talking" or "hearing a few arguments" in the apartment, or "not acting loving enough" to his girlfriend. I mean, gimmee a break, every married couple in America has days like that and moments like that...don't they?

Some of the wood chip rot that I am hearing on major national programs about this guy are laughable, IMO, and are so damned subjective that they are like the individual who uses binoculars from across the street, nightly, to discover major trouble with the neighbors simply because he or she is bored to death and is looking for someone to hate or grist for a good fiction book.

That one neighbor, what's her name, is one excellent case in point. It's like she sits up at night coming up with new things that she has discovered over the months about this guy. Every time I hear her speak she adds another "reason" why RC is a maniac hunter nutcase.

Maybe she's right, clearly he seems to have had some nasty relationships in the past. Let's hear more about that, more of the good, more of the bad, from "different" individuals in his past history, and "recent" past, not high school, that's old stuff and give the guy credit for possibly changing.

He was bossy, yes, he had a history of making demands, yes, he was a neat dresser, he was athletic, he had a whole lot of male friends who had a whole lot of nice things to say about him, to the point of defending him internationally on Larry King, he talked rudely to his girlfriend, according to that "neighbor" who seems to come up with a whole lot of new things every time she is interviewed.

I'd like to hear more from the girlfriend, the one he had at the time of the crime, not one from years ago, or some high school 4 year old response.

All of the above relates only to what "songline" indicated above:

I repeat songline's words: I really do not think we know enough about this guy.

Nor do I.:twocents:

There are very few people in this world that we can say
"This person is so loved by everyone, they never had one enemy"

I can say that I only know one such person.
I can say that I have people who adore me and some who really don't. LOL
the latter is the most common.
I still say the same
WE DONT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT THIS GUY, AND WE REALLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT REALLY HAPPEND YET.

Not jumping on the Hangman line :no: :no: :no:
There is plenty of time for that.

 

[Harmony 2]

GMA had the high school girlfriend on this morning, and the kind of guy she describes sounds like a few I dated in high school and college. Yeah, some guys are insecure, controlling jerks at that age, but they don't necessarily grow up to be murderers.

Long ago before I knew better, I dated guys who were/are capable of this kind of murder, and there's a big, big difference between them and little control freak insecure types. I tend to think of RC as the latter.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/accused-annie-le-killer-raymond-clark-history-anger/story?id=8648090

~video at link~

As the relationship progressed, so did his control, Del Rocco said, saying that if things weren't going his way, "he'd make them go his way."

"There were times he did frighten me," she said, saying that sometimes things got physical, which she said the police have asked her not to talk about. "He'd get this little look in his eye. Sometimes it was better to do what he said just to avoid the fight."

 

[JL50ish]

I do not think there would be much likelihood of the prosecution offering a deal with the forensic evidence they have and the surveillance.

I don't know WHO offered (prosecution or defense) but a plea was accepted in the case of Mark Hacking killing his wife and there was plenty of evidence...including a video of him disposing of the body. So, a plea deal could be accepted if money can be saved and the sentence is for a long time.

 

[Noway]

I don't know WHO offered (prosecution or defense) but a plea was accepted in the case of Mark Hacking killing his wife and there was plenty of evidence...including a video of him disposing of the body. So, a plea deal could be accepted if money can be saved and the sentence is for a long time.

I don't think the defense offered the deal because I don't think the defense in any case is allowed to. I think the prosecution has to do it (offer) and the defense can accept or not.

if the defense feels there is enough evidence for the prosecution to get the death penalty, then would life in prison seem like a sweet deal? IDK ...

If he pleads guilty then the judge will sentence him, so we have to wait until (I think) at least October 6 to see if he enters a plea then.

 

[JL50ish]

I don't think the defense offered the deal because I don't think the defense in any case is allowed to. I think the prosecution has to do it (offer) and the defense can accept or not.

.

The defense is absolutely allowed to proffer a plea deal..it happens all the time. The prosecution takes the proffer, reviews it, and decides to counter with a more severe plea (that requires more prison years) or accept.

As a matter of fact, there were rumblings that Jose Baez was in the process of putting together a plea deal for Casey (where Casey would say where the body was and she'd get 15 years) when the body was found.

 

[Normcar21]

GMA had the high school girlfriend on this morning, and the kind of guy she describes sounds like a few I dated in high school and college. Yeah, some guys are insecure, controlling jerks at that age, but they don't necessarily grow up to be murderers.

Long ago before I knew better, I dated guys who were/are capable of this kind of murder, and there's a big, big difference between them and little control freak insecure types. I tend to think of RC as the latter.

I really have little doubt about RC being the killer, I would simply like to know what was in his mind when he acted out. I think that mitigating circumstances are perhaps the only hope this fella has to avoid the death penalty, if this state has the death penalty, and I do believe it does. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm too lazy to check it out at this time. I'm sure he's be very pissed off to hear me say that, but I don't really care much about what this guy thinks, since, no matter what, he blew it and a very lovely person is now dead because he couldn't control himself...apparently.

I also believe that any one of us here is capable of making a fatal mistake in a moment of passionate whatever, given certain circumstances, such as missing the entire point of existence. :innocent::croc:

 

[songline]

Sometimes I may sound like an Idealist, but basically I am a practical thinker.

I do not understand this:
Why would a man who is planing to get married, has a good job, friends say he is a nice guy,
WANT to kill someone? We do need more facts to come to light.
She has been called feisty, even her family had said they did not always approve of her choices;
I see someone strong minded, not the easiest to deal with.
I am willing to bet that - this is the case - but she still did not deserve to be dead.

I imagine an accident - but the cover up is not OK.
I also can see that DNA will travel in those close quarters,
but the ID card unless it was stolen DOES tells us to look more closely.

I am perplexed with this case. :headache::
But I do find people who are ready to hang him without all the facts coming to light, highly offensive.
If I ever had to be in court I would never want them on my jury. :no:

 

[Francine]

"Roid rage is one of the working theories," a police source said. "What's clear is that he got off on giving the smart students a hard time. The guy was a glorified janitor but he was a major control freak."

Janet Stonier, whose son was Clark's high school classmate, told The ENQUIRER that the lab tech's family was worried about the way he'd suddenly fly off the handle.

"A family friend told me he's been doing steroids lately," said Janet.

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/yale_killer_raymond_clark_secret_roid_rage_annie_le_murder/celebrity/67363

Similar to the Benoit case == the wrestler who apparently killed his family and himself due to roid rage. I'll have to check into that to see what was made of the toxicology results, if anything. In this case they do have a live suspect, and the police must have taken blood samples which may have led them to suspect steroids. Can defense use this as a mitigating factor?

 

[KAE]

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/yale_killer_raymond_clark_secret_roid_rage_annie_le_murder/celebrity/67363

Similar to the Benoit case == the wrestler who apparently killed his family and himself due to roid rage. I'll have to check into that to see what was made of the toxicology results, if anything. In this case they do have a live suspect, and the police must have taken blood samples which may have led them to suspect steroids. Can defense use this as a mitigating factor?

I usually associate steroid use with bodybuilders,weightlifters or football players and I'm sure there are many other sports where they could enhance an individual's performance, but come on... Softball?! Really?

If it turns out that he was taking steroids, I wonder where he obtained them. If one of his buddies from his team supplied them, could he be held responsible in some way?

ETA a coma. There, that looks better

 

[Chanler]

Sometimes I may sound like an Idealist, but basically I am a practical thinker.

I do not understand this:
Why would a man who is planing to get married, has a good job, friends say he is a nice guy,
WANT to kill someone? We do need more facts to come to light.
She has been called feisty, even her family had said they did not always approve of her choices;
I see someone strong minded, not the easiest to deal with.
I am willing to bet that - this is the case - but she still did not deserve to be dead.

I imagine an accident - but the cover up is not OK.
I also can see that DNA will travel in those close quarters,
but the ID card unless it was stolen DOES tells us to look more closely.

I am perplexed with this case. :headache::
But I do find people who are ready to hang him without all the facts coming to light, highly offensive.
If I ever had to be in court I would never want them on my jury. :no:

Hi, Songline, I think that the key is that it was a volatile situation. She was under the pressure of winding up at the lab and preparing for "the most important day" of her life; he was probably hoping to confront her or make some demand in the limited time before she disappeared to get married.

One reason that the situation might have escalated is the good job and future plans that you mentioned. After a friend of mine threatened to report a taxi driver for refusing to take her to her destination, he drove his car into her, actually shredding her shoe and injuring her foot. He had no previous record.

Your caution about being hanging judges before the trial is wise, but I do think that it's difficult to reconcile a strangling death with an accident, especially since the corpse was concealed.

 

[Shlock Homes]

Except for a few people, and nameless sources, who suggest Ray Clark was a 'control freak', the general consensus seems to be he was a pretty nice guy. Maybe not the type to go out of his way or anything, but he was in his position for about 3 years. How many people in the previous years had messy cages? Did he attempt to murder them? We're not a couple of people who were literally at each other's throats, and they weren't a couple of crackheads or street thugs who looked at each other the wrong way. They were two students, scientists, all looking to do their work, and then go home to their personal lives. In other words, there would be no reason for them to have crossed swords on that morning.

I think we'll just have to be patient for the trial to find out what the strong evidence is that ties him to the crime. The little bits and pieces they've been sneaking out to the media are still circumstantial in nature.

 

[JL50ish]

She has been called feisty, even her family had said they did not always approve of her choices;
I see someone strong minded, not the easiest to deal with.
I am willing to bet that - this is the case -

I would NOT say that just because her family said that they didn't always "approve" of her choices that that means that she was "not the easiest to deal with." Do our families always agree with OUR CHOICES...no!

Her family is traditional Vietnamese and VERY CATHOLIC...of course they didn't "approve" of the fact that she was marrying someone who is Jewish and she wasn't getting married in the Catholic church...She was even attending Jewish classes to possibly convert (some suggest that she was doing this to appease her wealthy future in-laws before the wedding, but wasn't actually going to convert - I don't know - no one really knows). So, of course her parents didn't "approve" of any of this...but that doesn't mean that she was "difficult to deal with". My own Italian Catholic parents would have had fits if I hadn't gotten married in the Church....LOL I do think that it's interesting that because she died before her marriage, her parents had total control over her funeral and burial...which were Catholic.

 

[Shlock Homes]

We should also remember that people who appear feisty to their families aren't necessarily going to behave that way in a professional or educational setting. Feisty for parents might imply she didn't like to listen to their rules and follow their wishes, but that doesn't mean the same person is going to behave that way with strangers or even friends. It definitely wouldn't lead someone to commit murder against such an individual.