Seeking Key Info 6/10-6/14 for New Leads

[JWG]

I saw in several postings on this thread a claim that in JG's interview, near the end, he says that Casey did not stay at home from June 11th through the 15th. I reread the interviews as well as the narrative from the latest document dump, and I have to respectfully disagree with the certainty of this interpretation.

Here is the excerpt as transcribed by ACandyRose:

JG: Well I believe that uh, uh, (sighs), I heard Caylee on the telephone on the 24th. But anybody seeing Casey r...really between the 11th of June and basically the end of June well is really the huge gap in regards to where was Casey during the 11th through the end of June. Because that, that is where in people saw, talked to her, but nobody saw her. She wasn't hanging out with anybody, and she wasn't staying at home. And the only person that she could have been staying with would have been Tony Lazaro.

EE: Uh-hum (affirmative).

JG: Uhm, I think that is where the, that is where this, this really gets specific in regards to where is Caylee. Because they saw her on the 10th. And according to her parents she saw her on the 15th uhm, at grandpa's place. But then, you know, the 16th through the 30th where, where is Casey? Where is Caylee?

In context, JG is saying that Casey's friends had not seen Caylee or Casey after the 10th, but confirms that her parents had seen them on the 15th. Recall that JG was actively involved in establishing a timeline amongst the friends, but keeping the parents more or less informed of what they were doing. The mixing of friends and parents in this sequence is confusing. However, I believe if leaves open the possibility that KC actually did spend those nights at her parent's.

Here is what I believe we can conclude as to KC and Caylee's nightly locations based on the evidence released to date:

June 9 - At RM's based on RM interview and KC cell pings. Moderate communications with AL.

June 10 - In the area of parent's home based on cell pings, but no specific location mentioned in interviews, so may have been at Lee's. Heavy communications with AL.

June 11 - In the area of parent's home based on cell pings, but no specific location mentioned in interviews, so may have been at Lee's. Heavy communications with AL.

June 12 - In the area of parent's home based on cell pings, but no specific location mentioned in interviews, so may have been at Lee's. Heavy communications with AL.

June 13 - At Fusion until at least 11 PM. Near Andy F. home 1:40 AM. At AL's 2:50 AM. Two calls to CA cell, then to Anthony home. <Speculation> "Mom, I am not coming home tonight." "Yes you are. Get here NOW." <End Speculation> Back in the area of parent's home at 3:15 AM.

June 14 - In the area of parent's home based on cell pings, but no specific location mentioned in interviews, so may have been at Lee's. Heavy communications with AL.

June 15 - At parent's home based on KC cell pings, home computer activity, GA interview seeing KC and Caylee leave between 12 and 1. Very heavy communications with AL.

June 16 - At AL's based on AL interview, KC cell pings, Blockbuster store video.
​

Nothing I could find in LA's interview suggests KC and Caylee were at LA's home June 10 - June 15. Do we know for certainty that LE was out of town those date? If so, link please.

I like Bond's statistical analysis showing high confidence in a statistical shift of cell pings from the parents to Lee's from June 10 - June. Just wish we could back it up with eye witnesses.
​

 

[wanttohelp]

I am not sure if you guys are discussing if she was home or not to determine date of death 6/15 or 6/16, but if you are I cant stop thinking about two things associated with this.

1.)Casey posts to Troy on myspace referencing Amy not moving into the (her parent's) house: she still has yet to move into the house. hell, in the past 9 days, i haven't even been living at the house. DRAMMMMMA. i'll fill ya in later on. miss ya, yo. 06/24/08 Tue
12:40 PM
counting back 9 days=June 15

2.) Refering to not seeing her daughter for 31 days.
Counting back 31 days-June 15

I think she ment what she said.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I like Bond's statistical analysis showing high confidence in a statistical shift of cell pings from the parents to Lee's from June 10 - June. Just wish we could back it up with data.
[/LEFT]

*snipped*
Not exactly sure what you mean... (perhaps, "by statements") since the statistical analysis is based only on pure numerical data, nothing else.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I am not sure if you guys are discussing if she was home or not to determine date of death 6/15 or 6/16, but if you are I cant stop thinking about two things associated with this.

1.)Casey posts to Troy on myspace referencing Amy not moving into the (her parent's) house: she still has yet to move into the house. hell, in the past 9 days, i haven't even been living at the house. DRAMMMMMA. i'll fill ya in later on. miss ya, yo. 06/24/08 Tue
12:40 PM
counting back 9 days=June 15

2.) Refering to not seeing her daughter for 31 days.
Counting back 31 days-June 15

I think she ment what she said.

Please, This thread is focused solely on the period 6/10-6/14.

 

[BondJamesBond]

...recap of a couple other things from earlier in the thread.

1) Early in the case George was cited 'bout a sighting by family friends of Caylee @ a mall near the Seminole County line on 6/12, IIRC. George described what Caylee was allegedly wearing which, again IIRC, was white rimmed sunglasses, etc. George may have dates confused, but, this was repeatedly attributed to 6/12. IIRC, a statement from Tony indicated he & Casey (no mention of Caylee?) were hanging posters at a mall regarding an upcoming event and perhaps ate at the mall too. That this was characterized as a "sighting" may have been attributed to the initial 6/9 missing date in statements...but, also fits the mindset that Caylee had been gone from G&C's essentially after 6/9.

2) Clint stated he saw Caylee @ Tony's apt. 6/13PM before going to Fusian that night, IIRC,

3) Kristina C. stated she walked w/ Casey & Caylee @ Lake Underhill, 6/12 or 6/13. I've never been able to find ping or a gap in the pings that supports this event. There is a period Friday PM pinging near JBPark between 8-9PM, just prior to going to Fusian. I've always wondered, regardless of which day this occurred, if it was for help to get Caylee asleep, or, probing for help from Kristina to keep Caylee. For the phone#'s I have for Kristina C. the only contact prior to 6/15 I have between the two is on 6/2 @ 12:22AM and 6/8 @ 4:15PM.

Anyone gotta fix on item (3)?

 

[JWG]

*snipped*
Not exactly sure what you mean... (perhaps, "by statements") since the statistical analysis is based only on pure numerical data, nothing else.

Are you saying, when I select word(s) poorly, you don't understand what I mean? :crazy:

You're right ... I should have said "eye witness" and not "data". I really need to proof-read my posts... :bang:

Edited above.

 

[JWG]

...recap of a couple other things from earlier in the thread.

1) Early in the case George was cited 'bout a sighting by family friends of Caylee @ a mall near the Seminole County line on 6/12, IIRC. George described what Caylee was allegedly wearing which, again IIRC, was white rimmed sunglasses, etc. George may have dates confused, but, this was repeatedly attributed to 6/12. IIRC, a statement from Tony indicated he & Casey (no mention of Caylee?) were hanging posters at a mall regarding an upcoming event and perhaps ate at the mall too. That this was characterized as a "sighting" may have been attributed to the initial 6/9 missing date in statements...but, also fits the mindset that Caylee had been gone from G&C's essentially after 6/9.

2) Clint stated he saw Caylee @ Tony's apt. 6/13PM before going to Fusian that night, IIRC,

3) Kristina C. stated she walked w/ Casey & Caylee @ Lake Underhill, 6/12 or 6/13. I've never been able to find ping or a gap in the pings that supports this event. There is a period Friday PM pinging near JBPark between 8-9PM, just prior to going to Fusian. I've always wondered, regardless of which day this occurred, if it was for help to get Caylee asleep, or, probing for help from Kristina to keep Caylee. For the phone#'s I have for Kristina C. the only contact prior to 6/15 I have between the two is on 6/2 @ 12:22AM and 6/8 @ 4:15PM.

Anyone gotta fix on item (3)?

Hopefully the following adds clarification.

On the 11th or 12th, according to AL, he met KC and Caylee at the Mall of Millenia in the afternoon and treated them to a meal at the Cheesecake Factory. KC was driving, and she must have picked AL up from his place because they stopped by the parents home on the way to the mall. AL says this is one of only two times he was at the parents home, the other time being when they got the gas cans. KC then drove AL back to his apartment, and she and Caylee left afterward. Pings support this happening on the 11th.

Next time KC comes over is the 13th for an evening at Fusian, and AL indicates Caylee is not with her. Says this is the first night that KC stays over, but based on cell pings she does leave around 3:00 AM, soon after calling her parents house.

Interesting that she texts AL at 1:40 AM and 3:02 AM. I would have thought he recalled her leaving before dawn.

Anyhow, I believe Clint's recollection of last seeing Caylee lines up with the day AL, KC, and Caylee went to the mall.

Regarding the JBP pings on the 13th, when the cell IDs are pulled into play along with the pings before / after, I think this reflects the drive to Fusian from AL's.

All that said, I have yet to figure out when she met Kristina. I am beginning to think Kristina was off by a number of days.

 

[JWG]

Anyhow, I believe Clint's recollection of last seeing Caylee lines up with the day AL, KC, and Caylee went to the mall.

I take that back. Cell pings show Casey at AL's apartment that afternoon from roughly 1:30 PM to 6:00 PM, so Clint likely did see Caylee then.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Posting the following on the "6/13" ping map thread in the Sticky Forum cell ping thread as well&#8230;

I propose Casey left Caylee with Kristina C. Friday evening 6/13 while she went to Fusian. I propose they met for a brief walk @ JB Park (vs. Lake Underhill) between 8:10-9PM and Casey went on from there to Fusian while Caylee stayed with Kristina. At 10:58PM Kristina (via Adam) texted Casey &#8216;bout coming to get Caylee.

Details below&#8230;

I propose Casey & Caylee&#8217;s walked with Kristina C. Sunday 6/1 around JB Park vs. Lake Underhill. It also appears Casey may have been in contact w/ Kristina 6/12 @ 7:54PM, &#8220;sounds good hun.&#8221; via Facebook perhaps arranging a quick visit for the kids @ JB Park 6/13PM based on the following:

(a) The absence of cell pings near Lake Underhill in the early-late PM hours 6/1-6/15
(b) A 3hr period of inactivity on Casey&#8217;s cell Sunday 6/1 between 5:16PM and 8:15PM w/ before & after pings @ tower located near JB Park
(c) Approx. 1 hr before she shows up @ Fusian 6/13 @ 9PM, Casey is pinging @ tower located near JB Park
(d) Kristina's statement she saw Caylee & Casey for a walk 6/11, 12 or 13
(e) The only direct cell contacts between Casey & Kristina pre-6/16 are:

MON, 6/2 @ 12:22AM Casey texts Kristina
SUN, 6/8 @ 4:15PM Kristina texts Casey​

It appears Casey & Kristina may have had a Sunday afternoon ritual of getting the kids together for playdates. They may have pre-arranged their 6/1 get together on Facebook and/or MySpace (now deleted) or email since there doesn&#8217;t appear to be cell evidence of making the plans 6/1. Or, they may have had a typical meeting time & place. Perhaps the 12:22AM text from Casey to Kristina was an &#8220;enjoyed the walk&#8221;, or, &#8220;can you watch Caylee?&#8221;, or even &#8220;I&#8217;m coming to get Caylee&#8221; if Kristina may have kept Caylee that evening after the walk.

I propose the following incoming texts from &#8220;Adam&#8221; were contacts w/ Kristina C. through (or on) Kristina&#8217;s husband/boyfriend&#8217;s cell, with no evidence or return calls/texts to this number:

MON, 6/2 1:10PM Adam texts Casey
FRI, 6/13 10:58PM Adam texts Casey
SUN, 6/15 2 :39PM Adam texts Casey​

The, Monday 6/2 instance was perhaps a follow-up to the Sunday 6/1 walk.
The Friday, 6/13 instance may have been the &#8220;come pick up Caylee&#8221; referenced above.
The Sunday, 6/15 instance was perhaps to ask if they were &#8220;on&#8221; that day for their play date.

Wasn&#8217;t there a statement from Ricardo &#8216;bout Casey showing up w/ Caylee @ his place 6/13PM or early morning hours 6/14????

 

[BondJamesBond]

Casey's last ping @ Fusian is @ 10:58PM (which I believe is a text from Adam/Kristina to come get Caylee), then, she texts Tony from near Andy F's house @ 1:39AM and finally places 3 calls to Cindy @ 2:48AM pinging from Tony's apt. By 3:12AM 6/14 Casey is pinging @ G&C's.

Since it only took Casey ~20mins to get from Tony's to G&C's it appears she went directly there...suggesting to me that,

(a) Caylee had been sleeping in the Pontiac while Casey was with Tony @ his apartment for... something less than the hour...that it took to get from near Andy F's @ 1:39AM (Kristina's??) to Tony's apartment, until 2:48AM.

OR

(b) Casey had taken Caylee to G&C's after picking her up from Kristina's between 11PM 6/13 and 1:39AM 6/14. Then, Casey ran up to Tony's alone.​

Since Casey initiated the calls to Cindy @ 2:48AM, I speculate that (b) is the more likely of the two options...Casey took Caylee to G&C's around 2AM, then, ran up to Tony's and was calling home to tell Cindy she wouldn't be coming back until later Sunday. And Cindy told her to get home and tend to Caylee...and Casey promptly came home.

Anyone have Kristina's address from the first 400pg doc's? I'm ready to bet that it's somewhere near Andy F's.

 

[guideposts]

Bond ~
8779 Sartori St. #*advertiser censored*, 32829
Info taken from statement to police. Handwritten page no 44

 

[BondJamesBond]

Bond ~
8779 Sartori St. #*advertiser censored*, 32829
Info taken from statement to police. Handwritten page no 44

Hey, guideposts. Thanks!

FWIW. I posted the above in a few different threads since it touches on a few different topics. Currently pulling through the Kristina string on the "Kristina..Globe" thread in the main forum.

With help from others, esp. JWG, mom2chloe, BeanE, etc. it looks like the 1:39PM ping near Andy F.'s could be the group goin' to Sean H's house (near Andy's) after Fusian and Casey catchin' up w/ them there after droppin Caylee @ G&C's after 11PM. Just speculation...but, FYI. JWG also noted that Christina's parents live on Chickasaw between Tony's and G&C's. The address you listed above would likely ping same tower as G&C's (south tower near tow yard) as suggested by JWG.

...speculated on the Kristina thread that perhaps Casey picked up Caylee and took her to G&C's DUI...before going back out....just speculation...but that coulda sent Cindy ballistic..staging the 6/15 'fight'...

 

[JBean]

bump for discussion

 

[wings]

Just an idea, and it may have already been discussed, sorry Bond but this predates the 6.10.08 date by 2 days but would affect those date imo. Nancy Grace re-aired the first 24 hours issue again last night, and it hit me that in the interviews Casey said that on the 8th Cindy took Caylee to see her parents, Caylee's great Grandparents. Assuming this is so, maybe Cindy did do fathers day on that date thinking she would be on vacation on the actual fathers day of the 15th??? Just a possibility. I know KMC said she saw Caylee that week but we don't have any proof of that. and Clint R. H. Said he saw her the 13th at FUL but has anyone else actually backed that up either??? In the interview Casey never corrected the statement to say oh you know what that was fathers day I remember now that is why they went to Mt Dora...

 

[BondJamesBond]

Just an idea, and it may have already been discussed, sorry Bond but this predates the 6.10.08 date by 2 days but would affect those date imo. Nancy Grace re-aired the first 24 hours issue again last night, and it hit me that in the interviews Casey said that on the 8th Cindy took Caylee to see her parents, Caylee's great Grandparents. Assuming this is so, maybe Cindy did do fathers day on that date thinking she would be on vacation on the actual fathers day of the 15th??? Just a possibility. I know KMC said she saw Caylee that week but we don't have any proof of that. and Clint R. H. Said he saw her the 13th at FUL but has anyone else actually backed that up either??? In the interview Casey never corrected the statement to say oh you know what that was fathers day I remember now that is why they went to Mt Dora...

Hi, wings. I understand why you make the connection...

IMHO, just to respond to the point you raise, and not wanting to take up the debate [again] on this thread...the 6/15 visit to grandparents has been validated several, independent ways. I don't wanna get into it here so as not to fuel the debate here...hope you understand.

 

[wings]

Hi, wings. I understand why you make the connection...

IMHO, just to respond to the point you raise, and not wanting to take up the debate [again] on this thread...the 6/15 visit to grandparents has been validated several, independent ways. I don't wanna get into it here so as not to fuel the debate here...hope you understand.

gotcha, you can have them delete the suggestion as it was off your topic, and i know where you are coming from not wanting to rehash it here... no prob.

 

[BondJamesBond]

gotcha, you can have them delete the suggestion as it was off your topic, and i know where you are coming from not wanting to rehash it here... no prob.

Hey, Wings. I appreciate the thought...not necessary...really. The way things cross-over on this case it is almost impossible to stay focused onna individual topic.

I'd really like to see some additional info surface that places the 6/10-6/14 circumstances in better view. There's just enough out there IMHO to create reasonable suspicion that things were changing radically 6/10-6/14 that might give us insight into what happened to Caylee. IF Caylee was being sedated...and, perhaps Ricardo had been involved in that somehow...this woulda been the period Casey started taking things into her own hands...sorta slippery slope way-of-thinkin'... Not to stray too far off into theoryland...just wanna see some hard info surface on this timeframe that'll warrant further scrutiny...or to drop it altogether.

 

[cloud9]

Hafta add the Brackenwood house to the short-list for 6/10-6/13 now.

Yes! The Brackenwood house.

 

[Verité]

I don't understand. For purposes of exploration, the dates Caylee was last seen were originally cited adamantly by CA as 6/8 & KC 6/9. I've continued
to have a headful of ??? about KC's early AM departure with Caylee away from the apt. of [then] bfnd. RM to ???? where. I rechecked items alleged
to verify the 6/15 FaDay visit & found them spotty at best, e.g. the
Great-GMA computer-generated mail, alleged date on last-seen Caylee videos, etc. Add to this the claims of over-powering car stench in what
may have been less then 3 days, & I remain puzzled by nature of events of
6/9, 10 until the fateful evening of 6/15/08. Just for drill, I think it's
OK to rehash a bit.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I don't understand. For purposes of exploration, the dates Caylee was last seen were originally cited adamantly by CA as 6/8 & KC 6/9. I've continued
to have a headful of ??? about KC's early AM departure with Caylee away from the apt. of [then] bfnd. RM to ???? where. I rechecked items alleged
to verify the 6/15 FaDay visit & found them spotty at best, e.g. the
Great-GMA computer-generated mail, alleged date on last-seen Caylee videos, etc. Add to this the claims of over-powering car stench in what
may have been less then 3 days, & I remain puzzled by nature of events of
6/9, 10 until the fateful evening of 6/15/08. Just for drill, I think it's
OK to rehash a bit.

Hi, Verite'.

I guess I should have been clearer.

I understand and agree that the selection of the 6/8 & 6/9 by both Casey & Cindy alone creates a high level of suspicion. In fact, that is one of the reasons I am VERY interested in understanding what was happening 6/10-6/14.

Especially in the early stages of the case there was MUCH debate over Caylee possibly being murdered priot to 6/15, with a great deal of effort being taken by Casey, etc. to conceal a focus on this week by fabricating evidence (e.g. rolling date forward on cameras, etc.). There was so much debate it tended to choke much of the focus on anything else. Posters went on & on 'bout counting "31 days", and "4 weeks" and Cindy's last day of vacation, looking @ the calendar and making a mistake, and, well...

I started this thread on the basis that we had enough evidence to suggest Caylee was alive <6/15 and that we needed a focused search for more information on where & how Caylee was cared for during this period w/o getting hung up on the endless debate of whether individual posters believe any one of the pieces of evidence...there are other threads for those debates...and that's all healthy debate. So, fortunately, we've been able to intensely focus on the 6/10-6/14 period and Caylee.

The 6/10-6/14 period represents a tremendous transition period for Casey, Caylee and G&C. I've ref'd information & analysis earlier in this thread that suggests Casey was keeping Caylee somewhere near G&C's (e.g. Lee's or Brackenwood house are potentials). Info suggests that Cindy kept Caylee the entire time she was on vacation before 6/9. Once Casey took Caylee to Ricardo's for the night 6/9...it was a new ballgame. IMHO, post-6/10 Casey's version of Caylee-care took a turn that ultimately resulted in disaster.

Soo....hoping we can stay focused on Caylee-Care 6/10-6/14 in this thread...and have/continue the healthy debate re: date selection & belief in other threads focused more specifically on those topics. I was re-reading Casey's intial statement again this week and may go bump one of those early threads on date selection to kick it around a bit more.

All, IMHO, of course.