Starting over again - Brainstorm session

[Normcar21]

Thanks for this thread Kimster, I'll be using this one alot!

 

[TamgMit]

Things I find odd;

Lindsey comes home with friend, and takes a shower.
Does she ask her mom if friend can spend the night?
Does mom say no, so she takes a shower and changes clothes in hopes of spending the night at friends house?
If she was planning on returning within an hour, why shower at that time?
Is she prone to taking a lot of showers throughout the day?

After taking a shower, she, her brother, and her friend, take a broken bike with them to friends house, but it and brother are sent home due to fighting.
Where did this happen? Who sent them home;
or did they decide they didn't want to push the bike and threw it in the bushes, and the bro took off in another direction, b/c, if he was told to walk with his sister, and he went home, why wasn't he sent back to walk with his sister?

Where does mom work? What are her hours?

Why was Lindsey missing school, and her grades dropping. She likes her teacher, so that isn't it. She has plenty of friends so social outcast isn't the reason.
If mom is gone when it's time to go to school, is she not responsible enough to get herself up, dressed, and on her way? I don't believe the divorce was troubling her. They had been seperated for a couple years. and she rarely saw her dad. I simply don't accept that reason for her dropping grades and missing school.
Was JB also missing a lot of school, were his grades also dropping?

How long had they lived at that address?

The nightmares could have been a result of her choice in movies, and books. moo

I read on the doctor website, don't know where it is now, that he observed the town blaming the mom for letting her out walking around that time of evening, but, I wonder if there is more to it than that. I wonder if mom isn't around much and the kids fend for themselves. I don't know this, I'm just asking.

I noticed during the vigil pics from cyber and JvK, thanks so much again, that JB is standing directly in front of his mom when she is talking into the mic.
My observation of this is "Look at Me, Mom" and I wonder what he's thinking.
All the other kids were sitting, paying attention, but he was restless, moving about.
Why? for attention? Didn't want to hear what was being said? Wished he was anywhere else but there?
Mom calls him a wanderer. To me, that says, she often doesn't know where he is or what he's doing.

And back to the shower thing, I find the timing of it an important clue. I'm not quite sure why.
One reason I think it's an important clue is b/c if she did shower with the hope she was going to spend the night with her friend at her friends house, wouldn't she have taken her cellphone. If she expected to come back with her friend in a hour, she might not take it, but would she take the time to shower?

Why was she "happy" her bro was going to juvi? Does she not understand what juvi is? or does she think he deserves it? or does he make her life so miserable that she prefers him in kiddie lock up, than at home? This is a clue, imo.

You know when I was around LB age we use to go swimming down to the pond. I can remember I use to have this crush on a young man, lol first love. Anyways, we use to primp up if there was a chance we might meet up with boys. Hoping that he would at least catch his eye. Maybe this is one of the reason that LB took a shower maybe there was some hope or plan she was going to see this boy who she might have had a crush on.

 

[TamgMit]

What we do know she did go to KK for approximately 15 min enough time to take off her shoes according to KK and slip them back on prior to leaving. I also believe there was mention of kk was home, along with her boyfriend and four kids. Two of the children were her own. Do we know who the other kids, or persons where that where also at that house at that time. Was wondering if one of them might have been someone that LB was interested in or maybe had a crush on. Or could she have even been interested in KK's son. Just a thought

 

[kageykaren]

Has anyone heard any rumblings about the relationship between Mom Baum and KK as of late? Do they share a new type of friendship after weeks of rehashing the last hour Lindsey saw anyone? Are any hard feelings detected between the two adult women lately? I'm feeling like there is information LE has held back. Does finding MB's co worker remain to be difficult to slueth? Hopefully the FBI is looking at everyone with 3 to 4 degrees of separation to Lindsey as I feel she had been groomed by someone who offered "The perfect listening ear" casually towards Lindsey's very vocal valid complaints of her brother. This is the only verbal complaint we have by Lindsey that caused her elation when she realized he would be removed from the home. I'm seriously wondering also about Lindsey's missed school days and if some are from stomach issues. Stress, anxiety and fear reaction tend to settle in a childs stomach as they tend to not verbalize as adults. I keep remembering Tubas comment about brother, and I remaiin wondering if the perp also had befriended the brother. We keep hearing how friendly both kids are. So many questions as the days slip by.

 

[eyes4crime]

On what little I know and my logic, I'm going to rule out those who are not suspects. I know many have different ideas and that's what makes the world go round:

Mom Baum - no access to a car; no history of violence of any kind; willingly took a polygraph and passed. A loving, single mom who tries hard to make ends meet. Ruled out!

Josh Baum - a socially awkward child who seems to be the target of many. At 12 yo he doesn't have the skills to murder and dispose of human remains that go undetected by LE, FBI, peers, and the entire town of McCleary. I have no doubt Lindsey would have beaten the carp out of him if necessary. Ruled out!

Mom K - Doesn't drive; no history of violence; makes visible attempts to help find Lindsey on all fronts. Genuinely cares and tries to be helpful to many. Ruled out!
Mom K's live-in friend - willingly took a lie detector test and passed showing he has no need to be in the limelight or clutter the search for Lindsey. Ruled out!

Lindsey was last seen by two different people probably about one-two minutes apart between 5th & 6th and Maple...this is probably where she was approached and lured/taken...

1. by a person she was slightly familiar with who offered her a ride home - only to keep on driving.

2. by a slightly familiar person with a puppy, a disability, or pretending to be sick, lost, or in need of help.

3. by a person who presented as an authority figure.

or in an attempt to turn away from something that alarmed her, she turned and changed direction only to run into a more alarming situation.

to be continued....
Lindsey was taken near a somewhat busy intersection, close to the police station, and at a time when locals would be closing their business and heading home on a Friday night...about 9:15-9:30. With this in mind, I seriously believe this person knew the layout of the town and was familiar with McCleary's activity of a Friday night. Perhaps not a resident but a frequent visitor.

If Lindsey got in a car with someone familiar under the auspice of being driven home...and the car kept on driving...I hope every inch of woods and water have been searched off the road she lives on..Mommsen Road. That's it for now..sure not much to go on.

 

[Kimster]

Eyes, I am also interested in knowing more about those who saw Lindsey on her way home. We can't discount them when we know so little about them.

 

[sunni]

Things I find odd;

Lindsey comes home with friend, and takes a shower.
Does she ask her mom if friend can spend the night?
Does mom say no, so she takes a shower and changes clothes in hopes of spending the night at friends house?
If she was planning on returning within an hour, why shower at that time?
Is she prone to taking a lot of showers throughout the day?

After taking a shower, she, her brother, and her friend, take a broken bike with them to friends house, but it and brother are sent home due to fighting.
Where did this happen? Who sent them home;
or did they decide they didn't want to push the bike and threw it in the bushes, and the bro took off in another direction, b/c, if he was told to walk with his sister, and he went home, why wasn't he sent back to walk with his sister?

Where does mom work? What are her hours?

Why was Lindsey missing school, and her grades dropping. She likes her teacher, so that isn't it. She has plenty of friends so social outcast isn't the reason.
If mom is gone when it's time to go to school, is she not responsible enough to get herself up, dressed, and on her way? I don't believe the divorce was troubling her. They had been seperated for a couple years. and she rarely saw her dad. I simply don't accept that reason for her dropping grades and missing school.
Was JB also missing a lot of school, were his grades also dropping?

How long had they lived at that address?

The nightmares could have been a result of her choice in movies, and books. moo

I read on the doctor website, don't know where it is now, that he observed the town blaming the mom for letting her out walking around that time of evening, but, I wonder if there is more to it than that. I wonder if mom isn't around much and the kids fend for themselves. I don't know this, I'm just asking.

I noticed during the vigil pics from cyber and JvK, thanks so much again, that JB is standing directly in front of his mom when she is talking into the mic.
My observation of this is "Look at Me, Mom" and I wonder what he's thinking.
All the other kids were sitting, paying attention, but he was restless, moving about.
Why? for attention? Didn't want to hear what was being said? Wished he was anywhere else but there?
Mom calls him a wanderer. To me, that says, she often doesn't know where he is or what he's doing.

And back to the shower thing, I find the timing of it an important clue. I'm not quite sure why.
One reason I think it's an important clue is b/c if she did shower with the hope she was going to spend the night with her friend at her friends house, wouldn't she have taken her cellphone. If she expected to come back with her friend in a hour, she might not take it, but would she take the time to shower?

Why was she "happy" her bro was going to juvi? Does she not understand what juvi is? or does she think he deserves it? or does he make her life so miserable that she prefers him in kiddie lock up, than at home? This is a clue, imo.

I am way behind here & sorry if someone already thought of this, but is it possible she showered because they had been swimming that day?

I know I usually do, but thats just me...

 

[STEADFAST]

Wow, this thread is great! Really important questions and observations.

You know, I just can't get the Bee Hive retirement center off my mind in relation to this case.
1. It's right where Lindsey was last seen.
2. "Outsiders" would not be noticed there -- employee's, visitors, etc. (Even a complete stranger could be parked in the lot.)
3. According to jvk, most, if not all, of it wasn't searched during the original search.

 

[DotsEyes]

House to house search sounds like someone is hiding her.

 

[eyes4crime]

Eyes, I am also interested in knowing more about those who saw Lindsey on her way home. We can't discount them when we know so little about them.

I agree Kimster...there are two calls with very similar information about time and place. If that wasn't the case and there was only one call...my inclination would be to ignore the info. At least one of the calls is legit and I feel tells us a great deal of info. jmo

 

[Kimster]

Another thing I don't remember that I'd like to revisit was Lindsey's time after the bike fight. She and friend walked to friend's house...remind me how long she stayed there? KK and her BF were home and other people were there as well, weren't they? How much do we know about interactions at the time she was there before she left to go home again?

 

[eyes4crime]

Another thing I don't remember that I'd like to revisit was Lindsey's time after the bike fight. She and friend walked to friend's house...remind me how long she stayed there? KK and her BF were home and other people were there as well, weren't they? How much do we know about interactions at the time she was there before she left to go home again?

Hi Kimster! Here is my logic and take on the walk: Since there were 3 kids walking together going to mom K's home, I doubt we really know the facts about the walk...children are terrible reporters; extremely inaccurate. Their times are way off and each child interprets differently. So I'm not sure about the 'bike fight' and the walk to mom K's. All the two mom's know, and what we know, is what was reported by the kids.

Once at the house (somewhere around 9:00pm?), we know Lindsey was there long enough to ask about the over-night; she and her friend were told 'no'...Lindsey was told she better get going 'cause it was soon to be dark. (seems most everyone knows of Lindsey's fear of the dark). I believe mom K and her live-in boyfriend were there along with the 4 kids...I doubt they noted any exact times pertaining to arrival or exits of Lindsey...why would they? Nobody was preparing for a tragedy ( I know I don't think of noting exact time except when I have appointments to keep). I have no idea what took place amongst the 2 adults and 5 kids at that time.

Lindsey left and was watched by her friend 'till she was no longer visible. Lindsey was seen around 9:15 or so walking down Maple by a passer by. Somehow the timing of all that makes sense to me.

Considering children are doing the reporting regarding their walk - and once at the home, it may have been chaotic with all the kids - who knows for sure who was talking with whom and for how long.

this is how I see the walk and time at mom K's...everyone will have their own interpretation and that's good...that leads to many diverse possibilities.

 

[Kimster]

I am way behind here & sorry if someone already thought of this, but is it possible she showered because they had been swimming that day?

I know I usually do, but thats just me...

My mom made me shower BEFORE I went in the pool, not after. We all have our "things"! LOL

 

[Track292008]

snipped:
Mom K - Doesn't drive; no history of violence; makes visible attempts to help find Lindsey on all fronts. Genuinely cares and tries to be helpful to many. Ruled out!

I don't recall hearing or reading that Kayla's mother doesn't drive. That seems most unusual for a person today, and I wonder if anyone knows the reason. TIA.

 

[Haddie McFaddies Mom]

In the process of reviewing all news articles within the Media Thread in Lindsey's Forum. Does this help at all? I don't know, or does it only add to the conflicting statements and location of Lindsey's last known whereabouts? I don't even know what I'm doing besides going around in circles, but while obsessing, I might as well try and be productive.

Lindsey J. Baum was last seen at roughly 9:15 p.m. on Maple Street.
http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor....11d86a7b.html

Witnesses say Lindsey seemed normal as she headed out around 9:15. Another friend even walked her part of the way, but Lindsey never showed up at her home. (??) (bolded by me)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html

The last person to see Lindsey was a resident driving through town who saw her walking on Maple Street between Fifth and Sixth streets around 9:15 p.m. Scott said.
ttp://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/896613.html

She would have walked down Maple and would have had to cross 3rd Street, which is a main road in the town and has a crosswalk. At that point she would have had a short walk through a commercial area, including a nearby bus station and a gas station. She would have had to cross the larger street, then back onto a residential street without a sidewalk and head down to her house at the 300 block of Mommsen Street, a dead-end residential neighborhood within view of the police station.
But a minute or two before she crossed 3rd Street, she disappeared. A neighbor spotted her about two-thirds of the way home, Scott said.
http://www.thedailyworld.com/article...5957341684.txt

The friend who last saw Lindsey also addressed the crowd. She said the girls asked if Lindsey could spend the night at her house, but when her parents said no, the girls parted. “I saw her at the end of Maple (Street),” the girl said.
http://www.thedailyworld.com/article...2474655699.txt

Lindsey was last seen at the corner of 6th and Maple heading home from her friend's house at about 9:15 p.m last Friday.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49891642.html

On Wednesday a second person came forward to report having seen Lindsey Baum on Friday night as she walked home along Maple Street from a friend's house.
http://www.komonews.com/news/49651607.html

I guess what jumps out at me is the statement about another friend walking her part of the way. (Misreported?) :waitasec:

and that this:The friend who last saw Lindsey also addressed the crowd. She said the girls asked if Lindsey could spend the night at her house, but when her parents said no, the girls parted.

conflicts with this: “She wasn’t intentionally supposed to be alone,” Melissa Baum said. “She was with a friend and was supposed to come back together.
http://www.thedailyworld.com/article...4694664243.txt

If they were asking if they could spend the night at MK's, why would MB think Lindsey was supposed to come back "together"?

My next post is going to be about what LE "thinks" based on the statements they have made, so if you think this post has you confused, just wait :crazy:

Me - :bang::waitasec::banghead::sheesh::beersign::drink::crosseyed:

 

[TamgMit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8gq.../news.php?extend.1113&feature=player_embedded

I was just wondering about the feelings Shannon. It states she usually walks her dog every night except for the night LB disappeared. What made her feel uncomfortable about walking the dog that night. Was something going on prior in the area to LB going missing, that gave her these bad feelings. Was there someone new in the area that she might have seen that made her uneasy. I know I am kind of grabbing at straws and going around in circles. She seemed to think or was aware something was a not right that she wasn't going to take the risk of walking the dog that night..jmo

 

[JenniferO]

The bad feelings that the woman, who usually walks her dog, is talking about is the bad feelings she has now. She feels bad because she thinks if she had walked her dog that night Lindsey might not have disappeared.

 

[scandi]

Another thing I don't remember that I'd like to revisit was Lindsey's time after the bike fight. She and friend walked to friend's house...remind me how long she stayed there? KK and her BF were home and other people were there as well, weren't they? How much do we know about interactions at the time she was there before she left to go home again?

Hi Kimster, I don't know if KK was home or not!

I hope I can say this here, but I read a comment she wrote, somewhere Ah-Hmmmm, where she said she was not home when Lindsey left.

It contradicts what is out there, saying she told Lindsey to go home. Well actually I think it was her BF who told Lindsey to go home before it got dark, right? I am quite sure she has said that.

What got me thinking about this Kimster is in your intro timeline there was something that shouted RED FLAG at me as loud as it could. That her cell phone was being charged at the time Lindsey left. It just seems like an incongruity, MONK-like in feeling, that it could be a big clue as to the truth about what was going on when Lindsey left that home.


It is going to be something like this - an overlooked clue, something said that does not fit, or something not said about something that triggers the mind of just one investigator working on the case. God, let it be the reason. Lindsey needs to be found.

If I had not read the comment she wrote in a post about NOT BEING THERE this would never have entered my mind. I think her comments have been confusing as they continually changed from A to Z. That is never a good sign. And I don't think she was involved but for some reason can not just spit it out, the truth about the situation that night. She knows something. It could be why LE has been watching her. I would too!

 

[boondock]

Hi Kimster, I don't know if KK was home or not!

I hope I can say this here, but I read a comment she wrote, somewhere Ah-Hmmmm, where she said she was not home when Lindsey left.

It contradicts what is out there, saying she told Lindsey to go home. Well actually I think it was her BF who told Lindsey to go home before it got dark, right? I am quite sure she has said that.

What got me thinking about this Kimster is in your intro timeline there was something that shouted RED FLAG at me as loud as it could. That her cell phone was being charged at the time Lindsey left. It just seems like an incongruity, MONK-like in feeling, that it could be a big clue as to the truth about what was going on when Lindsey left that home.


It is going to be something like this - an overlooked clue, something said that does not fit, or something not said about something that triggers the mind of just one investigator working on the case. God, let it be the reason. Lindsey needs to be found.

If I had not read the comment she wrote in a post about NOT BEING THERE this would never have entered my mind. I think her comments have been confusing as they continually changed from A to Z. That is never a good sign. And I don't think she was involved but for some reason can not just spit it out, the truth about the situation that night. She knows something. It could be why LE has been watching her. I would too!

I don't recall KK making this comment and thought I had followed her online pretty good

 

[scandi]

In the process of reviewing all news articles within the Media Thread in Lindsey's Forum. Does this help at all? I don't know, or does it only add to the conflicting statements and location of Lindsey's last known whereabouts? I don't even know what I'm doing besides going around in circles, but while obsessing, I might as well try and be productive.

Lindsey J. Baum was last seen at roughly 9:15 p.m. on Maple Street.
http://www.king5.com/topstories/stor....11d86a7b.html

Witnesses say Lindsey seemed normal as she headed out around 9:15. Another friend even walked her part of the way, but Lindsey never showed up at her home. (??) (bolded by me)
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html

The last person to see Lindsey was a resident driving through town who saw her walking on Maple Street between Fifth and Sixth streets around 9:15 p.m. Scott said.
ttp://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/896613.html

She would have walked down Maple and would have had to cross 3rd Street, which is a main road in the town and has a crosswalk. At that point she would have had a short walk through a commercial area, including a nearby bus station and a gas station. She would have had to cross the larger street, then back onto a residential street without a sidewalk and head down to her house at the 300 block of Mommsen Street, a dead-end residential neighborhood within view of the police station.
But a minute or two before she crossed 3rd Street, she disappeared. A neighbor spotted her about two-thirds of the way home, Scott said.
http://www.thedailyworld.com/article...5957341684.txt

The friend who last saw Lindsey also addressed the crowd. She said the girls asked if Lindsey could spend the night at her house, but when her parents said no, the girls parted. “I saw her at the end of Maple (Street),” the girl said.
http://www.thedailyworld.com/article...2474655699.txt

Lindsey was last seen at the corner of 6th and Maple heading home from her friend's house at about 9:15 p.m last Friday.
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49891642.html

On Wednesday a second person came forward to report having seen Lindsey Baum on Friday night as she walked home along Maple Street from a friend's house.
http://www.komonews.com/news/49651607.html

I guess what jumps out at me is the statement about another friend walking her part of the way. (Misreported?) :waitasec:

and that this:The friend who last saw Lindsey also addressed the crowd. She said the girls asked if Lindsey could spend the night at her house, but when her parents said no, the girls parted.

conflicts with this: “She wasn’t intentionally supposed to be alone,” Melissa Baum said. “She was with a friend and was supposed to come back together.
http://www.thedailyworld.com/article...4694664243.txt

If they were asking if they could spend the night at MK's, why would MB think Lindsey was supposed to come back "together"?

My next post is going to be about what LE "thinks" based on the statements they have made, so if you think this post has you confused, just wait :crazy:

Me - :bang::waitasec::banghead::sheesh::beersign::drink::crosseyed:

Hi Sweetie, and Yes, it is super confusing. KK is the one who made the air go hazy by saying on the way to her house the girls changed their mind and decided they would rather spend the night at KK's instead of MB's. That is the only place we have heard this, from her mouth, changing what we heard from Lindsey's Mom.

That is BIG IMO, as Lindsey's Mom has never addressed this issue.

So: Lindsey's Mom expected her to be coming back that night and she waited until 10pm until alarm bells rang in her head and she said something is not right here to herself , and without a car she proceeded on foot to try and go find her daughter.

Then there must have been a communication between her and KK {whose cellie was being charged at the time }, and they met up and since MB's car was not running and KK doesn't drive {no license evidently, or for some other reason}, and ended up in a car together searching for Lindsey.

We need to go back to the beginning. Something with this situation does not add up IMO. What is it that is off here? It does not fit, or am I too involved in this case to see it in a simple way that spells out the truth?

:blowkiss: