The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #6

[fullmoon]

I however, tend to think entry was in fact gained through the front door which goes to the other person who could have gained the trust of Sherrill or Suzie

I agree with your belief that entry was gained through the front door by someone one of the women was very familiar with. With a dog in the house, entry gained via a window or the sliding glass doors would have gotten the attention of the dog pretty quickly. Dogs will bark even sensing the approach of someone.

As is often said, the prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich. The odds are good that knowing he had but one bite at the apple (double jeopardy applies), he decided not to move forward with that case at that time. The evidence wasn't sufficient to establish a certitude of a conviction.

That brings to mind Cox. He had his murder conviction in the beating death of Sharon Zellers reversed by the Florida Supreme Court due to a lack of evidence. Makes me wonder if the Springfield prosecutor doesn't want a repeat in this case, if the prosecutor firmly believes it is Cox, and wants more evidence.

This case is solvable from what I have been told.

I agree, Richard. This case IS solvable. LE's case review, digitizing tens of thousands of documents to be sent to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children for review took a huge effort, so there is a renewed interest in solving this case.

The only thing missing is the physical evidence or in the alternative a confession

Or an ex-wife who has information that could crack the case.

So far as I know the broken globe fragments were recovered. I often wonder if any attempt was made to reconstruct it for clues. I think that is an area ripe for further exploration

If the globe was made of a thick glass, as mine is, the shards may have been larger, which would have had a greater chance of having intact fingerprints.

The tape was gone over with a fine toothed comb and yielded up nothing of value per my contact.

Forensics is always advancing. There might be the ability to get information off an erased tape someday, if they don't already have that.

 

[fullmoon]

I know Missouri Mule has long been focused on the question of who had the trust of the women to get them to open the door that night. I agree it is significant. Right up there with that question, for me, is, why was it necessary to remove the women from the house? Why not do the deed - sexual assault and murder - inside the house? Removing the women was risky for the perp(s) - any of the women could have loosened their bonds (if they were confined) and bolted or brought attention to their plight at any point in the abduction/transportation process. There would have been somewhat more traffic that night/morning than usual due to the graduation parties, not to mention the possibility of neighbors seeing this going down.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I know Missouri Mule has long been focused on the question of who had the trust of the women to get them to open the door that night. I agree it is significant. Right up there with that question, for me, is, why was it necessary to remove the women from the house? Why not do the deed - sexual assault and murder - inside the house? Removing the women was risky for the perp(s) - any of the women could have loosened their bonds (if they were confined) and bolted or brought attention to their plight at any point in the abduction/transportation process. There would have been somewhat more traffic that night/morning than usual due to the graduation parties, not to mention the possibility of neighbors seeing this going down.

100% agree with Hurricane who has said there two crime scenes. The one where they women were taken and the second to where they were taken. I seriously doubt any attempt was made at assaulting any of the women in the house itself unless we are to believe the visitors to the home completely obliterated the crime scene. We'll never know for a certain fact.

In my notes, however, it did say there was some DNA found. Not sure about the usefulness but apparently there was something. I'd have to back to check the exact wording to be certain, however. Could have been as simple as a single hair follicle or a partial print as yet unidentified.

My personal opinion is that the glass shards of the broken globe hold the most important clue. Don't ask me.

 

[TexasT]

"but I am neither LE or a PI "

So since you 're an admitted lay person what gives you the right to criticize other posters ? Because really you don't know any more value then anyone else . If you're telling us somehow you have been given exclusive access to LE documents then someone has put the investigation and to a smaller degree their career on the line .

By handling this case on this forum in this manner drive-by posters & new-bee posters who know little of the facts of the case .

How do you know that ? Because others have careers and don 't spent 24/7 on a public web site ? Can you explain why there is a need for the condescending attitude?

If your theories are right and everyone else is wrong ? So what ? Do you want a cookie ?
If you can't bring Sherrill , Suzie and Stacy back , not sure what there is to gloat about .

do.

Regards
TT

 

[TexasT]

I just want to thank you Hurricane for the way you post. For me it is refreshing to see, but of course I have a different perspective than most on the case considering my husband is Mike Clay. I know how much those IMO's hurt and have seen them go down the line and get turned into "fact". I've seen people go on my page and turn innocent pictures of my children at Halloween turned into "evil" things and have gotten private messages by not so nice people. So I just wanted to tell you Thank you because for me personally I really appreciate your way over most of the others.

Well when you Desecrate peoples loved ones and show no respect for the living or dead , And make statements of ill will towards the Victims what kind of response would you expect ?
I think thats part of being a Felon .



Honestly if the felons and their familes have a clear Conscience, who cares what strangers in the internet think/say ?
I actually find it quite bazzare they would even join / post in these forums .

Regards
TT

 

[monkeymann]

100% agree with Hurricane who has said there two crime scenes. The one where they women were taken and the second to where they were taken. I seriously doubt any attempt was made at assaulting any of the women in the house itself unless we are to believe the visitors to the home completely obliterated the crime scene. We'll never know for a certain fact.

In my notes, however, it did say there was some DNA found. Not sure about the usefulness but apparently there was something. I'd have to back to check the exact wording to be certain, however. Could have been as simple as a single hair follicle or a partial print as yet unidentified.

My personal opinion is that the glass shards of the broken globe hold the most important clue. Don't ask me.

So if what you say is right, and no crime was committed in the house, other than the abduction, why is it claimed that four separate law enforcement agencies claimed that it was a "Sexually Motivated" crime? If the women were taken from the house, prior to anything else happening to them, why do people think that it was a "Sexually Motivated" crime.

By "Sexually Motivated" are we referring to something sexual that had happened prior to that night, "consensual", that lead to the events of that night occurring......recalling the prior conversations we've had here about a pregnancy tester being found at the house by police.

 

[irisheyesofblue]

Well when you Desecrate peoples loved ones and show no respect for the living or dead , And make statements of ill will towards the Victims what kind of response would you expect ?
I think thats part of being a Felon .



Honestly if the felons and their familes have a clear Conscience, who cares what strangers in the internet think/say ?
I actually find it quite bazzare they would even join / post in these forums .

Regards
TT

It matters when some of the information is not factual. It brings the talk to "theories" that go down the wrong paths and that will not solve anything. All I want with all my heart is this to be solved for many reasons. The biggest is for the families. Being a mom and a sister I could not imagine so yes I like the truth posters far more. Plus my children and I did nothing wrong. We did not do anything and did not even know Mike back then. You can judge us all you want, but judge us on our truths and not for things we had nothing to do with. Also it is never expectable to post pics of our then 5 yr old on a board and that is actually the reason my husband went on the boards. I have considered putting up all sorts of blocks so people don't have access to my fb page when it was clear people were by messaging me and stealing my pics, but to me that would look like I had something to hide and I don't. To be honest the only reason I wrote yesterday was to try and help with ways to get people that actually know something to talk. I know I would be far more likely to talk to someone that goes by facts and not the turning every lil thing said into something else route. Also I'm not a felon. The worse thing I've done is got one speeding ticket 15 yrs ago and my children have done nothing wrong. Plus Mike has not been in trouble since he met me almost 19 yrs ago.

 

[Missouri Mule]

So if what you say is right, and no crime was committed in the house, other than the abduction, why is it claimed that four separate law enforcement agencies claimed that it was a "Sexually Motivated" crime? If the women were taken from the house, prior to anything else happening to them, why do people think that it was a "Sexually Motivated" crime.

By "Sexually Motivated" are we referring to something sexual that had happened prior to that night, "consensual", that lead to the events of that night occurring......recalling the prior conversations we've had here about a pregnancy tester being found at the house by police.

I wouldn't go so far as to say no crime was committed in the house. It would be more accurate to say that no evidence indicating violence was found. If the women were coerced out of the home a crime was certainly committed.

I never had access to the house or any forensic evidence that might have been found. It may simply be that since nothing of value was taken this was the default fallback position taken. It may also be that there was information reaching the police of a stalker or something of that nature. Of course that is speculative. I don't know.

I have no knowledge about any pregnancy tester.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Well when you Desecrate peoples loved ones and show no respect for the living or dead , And make statements of ill will towards the Victims what kind of response would you expect ?
I think thats part of being a Felon .

Honestly if the felons and their familes have a clear Conscience, who cares what strangers in the internet think/say ?
I actually find it quite bazzare they would even join / post in these forums .

Regards
TT

For one I'm glad that someone who actually has first hand knowledge has the courage to speak out about this. When one has paid their debt to society it is time for all of us to move on. By all accounts Mr. Clay has been a model citizen and should be commended, not criticized. Every one of who is a human being live imperfect lives and in our youths made some bad choices. It's over.

And I also find it troubling that some self-righteous people feel the need to dump on someone they don't even know needlessly; for what end.

 

[TexasT]

It matters when some of the information is not factual. It brings the talk to "theories" that go down the wrong paths and that will not solve anything. All I want with all my heart is this to be solved for many reasons. The biggest is for the families. Being a mom and a sister I could not imagine so yes I like the truth posters far more. Plus my children and I did nothing wrong. We did not do anything and did not even know Mike back then. You can judge us all you want, but judge us on our truths and not for things we had nothing to do with. Also it is never expectable to post pics of our then 5 yr old on a board and that is actually the reason my husband went on the boards. I have considered putting up all sorts of blocks so people don't have access to my fb page when it was clear people were by messaging me and stealing my pics, but to me that would look like I had something to hide and I don't. To be honest the only reason I wrote yesterday was to try and help with ways to get people that actually know something to talk. I know I would be far more likely to talk to someone that goes by facts and not the turning every lil thing said into something else route. Also I'm not a felon. The worse thing I've done is got one speeding ticket 15 yrs ago and my children have done nothing wrong. Plus Mike has not been in trouble since he met me almost 19 yrs ago.

Ms Clay,
I don't at all condone anyone being threatening to you or sending nasty messages to you or any of your family . If he's rehabilitated that's great. When the Streeter's and McCall's have been going through H*** for almost 22 years. It comes across disrespectful is soliciting sympathy for the felons who are free to come and go as they please.

Okay lets examine Facts: In more cases often then not family or acquaintances are are the offenders. And one thing that can be agreed upon in this case universally is that at least one of the offenders was known to the victims. So tell us what other family/friends are person of interest And do not have an alibi that cannot be confirmed.? ( Words of the Detective). And if those are not true then I would retain an attorney to have those comments removed.

Motive: Weather anyone wants to belittle it or not facing a felony and jail time is a motive.

The Threat: Wished they were dead.

So until it comes to light that another acquaintance has done all those things unfortunately for the felons, they are going to be looked at. It was Their actions after all that caused this. If they were at home doing homework or where ever they supposed to have been, instead of committing a gruesome felony, the world would never have known their names.

regards,
TT

 

[Missouri Mule]

There is an old saying worth recalling.

"When you are in a hole, stop digging."

My $0.02 worth of advice this day.

Can we talk about the on-going case for a change, please?

 

[TexasT]

For one I'm glad that someone who actually has first hand knowledge has the courage to speak out about this. When one has paid their debt to society it is time for all of us to move on. By all accounts Mr. Clay has been a model citizen and should be commended, not criticized. Every one of who is a human being live imperfect lives and in our youths made some bad choices. It's over.



And I also find it troubling that some self-righteous people feel the need to dump on someone they don't even know needlessly; for what end.

What I take exception with is that abuse of a corpse keeps getting downplayed and blown off as some childhood prank. Sorry but a childhood prank is shoe polishing a car or TP'ing a house.

That is some Very dark Disturbing behavior. What if it was your grandmother that they plucked her teeth fillings out and set on fire ? Are you still telling us its " no big deal" and "everybody does it" ? A bad choice would be shoplifting some candy at Wal-Mart. I could overlook that.



And for some people to act like the felon is some celebrity and " thank him" for his presence is even more disturbing. Ask Bartt how he feels about it. If they have some useful information that would clear them and collect 140K then I'm all for it . Come forward, it's been long enough.



In many many post you reference one of the offenders as being known, So who is it then ? let's be honest Cox does not work with other people. Ted Bundy did not work with other people.



Regards,

TT

 

[irisheyesofblue]

Richard,
What I take exception with is that abuse of a corpse keeps getting downplayed and blown off as some childhood prank. Sorry but a childhood prank is shoe polishing a car or TP'ing a house.
That is some Very dark Disturbing behavior. What if it was your grandmother that they plucked her teeth fillings out and set on fire ? Are you still telling us its " no big deal" and "everybody does it" ? A bad choice would be shoplifting some candy at Wal-Mart. I could overlook that.

And for some people to act like the felon is some celebrity and " thank him" for his presence is even more disturbing. Ask Bartt how he feels about it. If they have some useful information that would clear them and collect 140K then I'm all for it . Come forward, it's been long enough.

In many many post you reference one of the offenders as being known, So who is it then ? let's be honest Cox does not work with other people. Ted Bundy did not work with other people.

Regards,
TT

Mike actually talked to Bart personally, answered all his questions, apologized and sent him the statement his sister made. He has never down played what he has done, but how many times must one relive, apologize and say it was awful and nasty. He is only trying to get the facts straight so this can be solved at least the facts from his end because that is all he knows. You are right it was a nasty awful thing he did, but that is not what will solve finding out what happened to the girls and that is what is important.

 

[irisheyesofblue]

There is an old saying worth recalling.

"When you are in a hole, stop digging."

My $0.02 worth of advice this day.

Can we talk about the on-going case for a change, please?

Well said!

 

[TexasT]

Mike actually talked to Bart personally, answered all his questions, apologized and sent him the statement his sister made. He has never down played what he has done, but how many times must one relive, apologize and say it was awful and nasty. He is only trying to get the facts straight so this can be solved at least the facts from his end because that is all he knows. You are right it was a nasty awful thing he did, but that is not what will solve finding out what happened to the girls and that is what is important.

Fair enough . Thanks for the reply .

Regards
TT

 

[Simply Caustic]

This thread kinda trailed off for a bit.

Bumping for a reminder of while we're all here....

Three lives cut short.

I'd love a resolution to this case in 2014. Anyone imagine that's feasible?

 

[monkeymann]

There is an old saying worth recalling.

"When you are in a hole, stop digging."

My $0.02 worth of advice this day.

Can we talk about the on-going case for a change, please?

That's what we were doing before we mentioned, once again, some of the hard questions that have never been answered on these boards.

And, its unfortunate that every time these couple of questions get brought up, a couple individuals come on the forum and try and derail the conversation for some reason.

So, with that said, where is the "Rest of the story" about the "Other People" who were the "Last to see the girls that night",.....you know, those "Other People" no one seems to want to talk about????

 

[fullmoon]

That's what we were doing before we mentioned, once again, some of the hard questions that have never been answered on these boards.

And, its unfortunate that every time these couple of questions get brought up, a couple individuals come on the forum and try and derail the conversation for some reason.

So, with that said, where is the "Rest of the story" about the "Other People" who were the "Last to see the girls that night",.....you know, those "Other People" no one seems to want to talk about????

I have the original police report, but not any supplementals, which would be separate from the initial police report. That might have the statements of the "other people."

 

[Missouri Mule]

Not entirely sure what the issue is.

We know most of the major players in this crime. So far as I know their names are not secret. In my opinion, one has to clear the GJ3 before spending a whole lot of time looking at others.

Speaking only for myself, I'm not really looking for any other folks other than the ones already having been spoken of. If the implication is that the friends from school need to be looked at I personally think that is a dry hole.

In summary, we have the GJ3, Cox, Carnahan (very doubtful), one original suspect and two others who have recently come to light. Those names are known to the police and will never be made public short of an indictment or going to trial.

 

[fullmoon]

In summary, we have the GJ3, Cox, Carnahan (very doubtful), one original suspect and two others who have recently come to light. Those names are known to the police and will never be made public short of an indictment or going to trial.

There is still no nexus, or connection, to the women. If we are to believe someone was familiar enough to one of the women to get them to open the door in the middle of the night, that link has not yet become apparent, i.e., Cox, Carnahan, Garrison.