Theories #1: What Happened to Jennifer Kesse?

[Truth Prevails]

Great. Glad you got J4J's picture posted here.

In all your good work in post above, one minor but important adjustment. Location 4 needs to be shifted down past gate entrance (that white slab through the hedges) to corner where green stops. It would about line up with the D in the name of the lane. POI walked past the gate, 1st image is at top of concrete slab, gate to his right, 2nd image is bottom of concrete slab, 3rd image is at corner where there was a palm tree, and he turned around.

Concrete slab is a slight incline from lane up to gate, maybe a foot to a foot and a half of incline. Walking would be in the lane out a little from the hedges and gate entrance incline.

Where 4 is now would be just before he entered image 1 range centered on gate.

By the way, the white van is about where Jennifer's car was parked, don't know if van is in first or second spot.

Thank you, thank you. I might have it right now.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dFczQr14UJRDEX3LZefAIMp5x_U&usp=sharing

I just want to make sure I'm understanding--do you really think the POI walked from marker #3 to marker #4, then reversed direction to walk back to Huntington Green Ct.; took a right to continue to the corner of Huntington Green Ct; took a right onto S. Texas Ave.; continued to the corner of S. Texas Ave.; took a right onto Americana Blvd.; continued straight through the intersection as the street name changed to Conroy Rd., which leads to Jenn's condo.

I can't decide if I think he was patting himself on the back over what a good job he had done; or if I think he was acting on orders to leave the car parked perfectly straight to receive full pay. Maybe he risked one last look from a distance to make sure, proceeded back to Jenn's condo where the actual perp was waiting to pay him?

Now I'm back to that again. :banghead:

 

[DD Byrd]

I think the answer lies in "why bring the car back?" A random carjacking and assault, leave it anywhere. I don't think an experienced criminal would look back in the first place. And he sure as hell wouldn't if he knew there were cameras. And if he was unsure why risk the entire operation in broad daylight. Only someone oblivious to his actions would do this, so I think this was a person paid/ asked to bring a car to a certain place. That would explain backing and filling into an unfamiliar spot. Extra time in the car could be wiping prints or just sitting making a call.

 

[marable]

From where the POI parked the car near the pool, could you see Jennifer's car if you were traveling on S. Texas Ave.?

 

[rd_jfc]

Thank you, thank you. I might have it right now.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dFczQr14UJRDEX3LZefAIMp5x_U&usp=sharing

I just want to make sure I'm understanding--do you really think the POI walked from marker #3 to marker #4, then reversed direction to walk back to Huntington Green Ct.; took a right to continue to the corner of Huntington Green Ct; took a right onto S. Texas Ave.; continued to the corner of S. Texas Ave.; took a right onto Americana Blvd.; continued straight through the intersection as the street name changed to Conroy Rd., which leads to Jenn's condo.

I can't decide if I think he was patting himself on the back over what a good job he had done; or if I think he was acting on orders to leave the car parked perfectly straight to receive full pay. Maybe he risked one last look from a distance to make sure, proceeded back to Jenn's condo where the actual perp was waiting to pay him?

Now I'm back to that again. :banghead:

Yes, location 4 is correct now. Great.

He wouldn't have reversed direction. In fact we know that in that image 4 doesn't contain him. I obtained image 4 somewhere on a site back in the day, is not posted on my Blowups page because nothing there. He had moved on from the palm tree.

He would not have wanted to walk out to Texas. As far as I remember, and rechecking the picture here, there is no sidewalk along Texas on the HOTG side, there's some berm but a person would want to continue walking up the lane past the gate and pool to corner of Americana and Texas. If he was going to bus stop catty corner he would have taken a few steps through some grass there at corner.

I don't believe POI was parking for someone else and checking if he perfomed correctly, etc. I believe he looked back to see if he was being watched by someone who had noticed him parking and walking away. Was a clean getaway as he wanted.

I don't believe POI knew about the surveillance cameras. If he had he would have done lots of things different, not parking there at all, or coming in gate, making immediate right on lane and driving down aways and parking, then walking across Texas before heading down toward Americana, etc.

 

[rd_jfc]

From where the POI parked the car near the pool, could you see Jennifer's car if you were traveling on S. Texas Ave.?

I would say no in general. It's set back aways from Texas and surrounded pretty well.

 

[Myserty64]

About Jennifer's car being parked at HOTG.

I few pages back I mistakenly wrote that her car was reversed into the car park space.
I had wondered where I got the 'reversed' idea from.
Now I believe I found the answer.

Last night, for the umpteenth time I watched the Disappeared episode 'Girl Interrupted'.
In the re-enactments they showed her car being reversed into the parking space.
When they showed the scene where the detectives made Rob Allen stand there while they opened the trunk the car was shown parked as if it had been reversed in.

This is obviously where I got the reversed notion from.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Yes, location 4 is correct now. Great.

He wouldn't have reversed direction. In fact we know that in that image 4 doesn't contain him. I obtained image 4 somewhere on a site back in the day, is not posted on my Blowups page because nothing there. He had moved on from the palm tree.

He would not have wanted to walk out to Texas. As far as I remember, and rechecking the picture here, there is no sidewalk along Texas on the HOTG side, there's some berm but a person would want to continue walking up the lane past the gate and pool to corner of Americana and Texas. If he was going to bus stop catty corner he would have taken a few steps through some grass there at corner.

I don't believe POI was parking for someone else and checking if he perfomed correctly, etc. I believe he looked back to see if he was being watched by someone who had noticed him parking and walking away. Was a clean getaway as he wanted.

I don't believe POI knew about the surveillance cameras. If he had he would have done lots of things different, not parking there at all, or coming in gate, making immediate right on lane and driving down aways and parking, then walking across Texas before heading down toward Americana, etc.

Thanks so much for this.

I think I get some of what you are saying. You thoughts are that he never went back to Jenn's condo at all after he parked her car. I never really understood the small area that the surveillance video covered.

I finally understand that after markers #3 and #4, his path is pretty much all theory, mostly based on Bo's tracking. Gosh, that really opens things up, doesn't it?

I'm all out of time for now, but when I get a few minutes again, I'll go back and take out that walking path I put in. I really feel there is something not right there, so it would be better removed.

Regarding the bold by me, that makes much more sense than what I had come up with.

It blows my mind to think he wouldn't have known about the surveillance cameras and had so much luck to have his face blocked at every shot--still, what would we have seen anyway? More blurred images of the side of his face probably.

 

[Truth Prevails]

About Jennifer's car being parked at HOTG.

I few pages back I mistakenly wrote that her car was reversed into the car park space.
I had wondered where I got the 'reversed' idea from.
Now I believe I found the answer.

Last night, for the umpteenth time I watched the Disappeared episode 'Girl Interrupted'.
In the re-enactments they showed her car being reversed into the parking space.
When they showed the scene where the detectives made Rob Allen stand there while they opened the trunk the car was shown parked as if it had been reversed in.

This is obviously where I got the reversed notion from.

Thanks for this. I had the same idea for the longest time. I think it was you that straightened me out.

 

[Myserty64]

In the early days of this mystery I had a theory that there was a van parked next to Jennifer's car and that van had a sliding panel door on the side, open.

When Jennifer got to her car she was bundled into the van and then driven way.

A simple idea and I believe it is still a possible scenario. The abduction would have happened in mere seconds.

 

[Truth Prevails]

In the early days of this mystery I had a theory that there was a van parked next to Jennifer's car and that van had a sliding panel door on the side, open.

When Jennifer got to her car she was bundled into the van and then driven way.

A simple idea and I believe it is still a possible scenario. The abduction would have happened in mere seconds.

Indeed. Would you be thinking of a morning abduction on the 24th or an evening abduction on the 23rd?

This could work for either. Definitely planned, but I believe it was planned.

 

[Myserty64]

I don't know whether to go with a morning abduction or a night one.
Thinking that the first guess is the best one I lean toward the morning.

However when an independent investigator came up with the evening shut down of the phones I was stunned.

I would like LE to confirm the phones were shut down at 10:40 pm. It could then be taken as an absolute fact.
If LE has done that I missed it.

 

[marable]

For me , the phones being shut down at 10:40 pm if this is true and if it is true that her security system was not armed when the Mosaic managers made the wellness check for the Kesse's indicates a pm abduction.....Or , she was incapacitated inside her condo on Tuesday and was not able to set the alarm......I think in this case someone would have seen or heard something, maybe....

 

[Shin Masamura]

I've been sitting back, really letting the chat board brainstorm and l listened to the newest "Unconcluded" Series. What A cliff hanger. Now, to answer a few questions i've seen...

As for the Camera at the HOTG, Honestly, when I walk the path of the POI in 11', If I wasn't looking for it, I would have missed it. I remember it being on the building, under a triangle roof like structure. Small too, not very advanced, if was the same set up in 06 is beyond me.

About the walk back, man that is a walk. I know it was like 26 minutes or so but I did it at 3pm and it was scorching. Mind you it wasnt January. I had no idea about the back lot of the mosiac since I only went to the gate, I parked at the Publix, not the HOTG for obvious reasons.

Something did strike me though, Of the areas on Texas, this is not the worse, across Americana Blvd was far worse in some areas, the POI wanted to get back to the road quickly IMO.

But out of all this brainstorming, three things bother me about this case, The coincidence of Jennifer being abducted her first full night sleeping back at her condo after being out of town. Like the odds of that.. think about it..

Jan. the 22nd, she could have skipped sleeping at her boyfriends house and drove home to wake and goto work, but she didnt, so was the plan in place the day before, or the week before??? (Was she gone for the weekend or week before?)Tuesday morning crime? I always felt in my heart that the week/end being gone pissed someone off..

Second is the broad daylight and possible witnesses regardless.. if it went bad, its not like the could get out of the mosaic that easliy, Its inside a gate and did they know how disabled the camera systems were?. Also, her door was locked, its not like they would have taken the time to have grab her purse and brief case and lock the door.

And third, not" taking" her car or destroying it.. Un fun Fact, I worked at the Florida Mall somewhat near by, and car theft was a major issue. Like one a week bad, that coupled with leaving the DVD player, not taking anything else in the apartment if they had access is baffling. Why ditch it in the apartment complex and not.... TEXAS AVE behind it with nothing around. To make the car blend in? Sigh..

In conclusion, writing it outload so to speak, it seems like the POI was in a rush to get to where he was going. Park near the main road, and get back to where he needed to be. This also has to be someone familiar with her or her habits and feel like the trip sent them over the edge. What on God's green earth would possess them to park the car so close to the Mosiac unless they didn't move her that far. If the did more her far away why park so close to her residence? Only thing I can think, and sorry for the rambling, is there was a van, one group went one way, one got her keys moved her car up the street, and met back up.. But back the Mosiac?? Makes no sense..

 

[rd_jfc]

Thanks so much for this.

I think I get some of what you are saying. You thoughts are that he never went back to Jenn's condo at all after he parked her car. I never really understood the small area that the surveillance video covered.

I finally understand that after markers #3 and #4, his path is pretty much all theory, mostly based on Bo's tracking. Gosh, that really opens things up, doesn't it?

I'm all out of time for now, but when I get a few minutes again, I'll go back and take out that walking path I put in. I really feel there is something not right there, so it would be better removed.

Regarding the bold by me, that makes much more sense than what I had come up with.

It blows my mind to think he wouldn't have known about the surveillance cameras and had so much luck to have his face blocked at every shot--still, what would we have seen anyway? More blurred images of the side of his face probably.

Every little bit more that we could see would have helped, but it still wouldn't have necessarily allowed differentation between some of her known or possible associates that's been discussed. And if it's a stranger, wouldn't have been able to id him based on face profile. A little better, but not necessarily better than where we are.

Truth, I don't understand the part about my "thoughts are that he never went back to Jenn's condo at all after he parked her car." While this is true, the question is where he went when he walked out of HOTG onto the Americana sidewalk. I assume most believe he walked back to Mosaic, bolstered by the dog tracking (I don't know what the tracking path was away from her car that the police saw the dog perform, but of course is known by surveillance he walked around the pool and by the pool gate), and my opinion is he caught a bus there at the covered bus stop on the corner of Americana and Texas, but no matter how he walked out of HOTG it wouldn't give any indication of what he did or where he went on Americana. Does that make more sense?

Also, re:surveillance video area, I don't know details of cameras, whether they were all the same or something different about the "video" of car entering HOTG versus the still images of POI passing pool gate, but there are two cameras involved in that. The "video" of car entering is from a camera on top of poolhouse covering entrance and whatever can be seen of parking the car. The still images are from a camera on end of poolhouse aimed at the pool gate.

My understanding from previous postings we did here in 2007 was that there was a third camera on other end of poolhouse that was aimed in direction of where Jennofer's car was parked but was not operational. I don't remember details on that but we posted along those lines back then, that at least was my understanding back then from some info given here. I ran across some of those postings recently and surprised that I was involved posting about the third camera. Well I guess that was ten years ago.

 

[shelly111]

The police need to check who worked at that time, both in the mosaic and also in the apts behind it.
The poi could have walked back to jennifer's apt and from there he walked to the other apts behind it.
Maybe he parked his car there.
There was no gate between the two complexes and back than you could have walked easily from one complex to the other.
Also I think the dog followed Jennifer scent. the poi scent was not strong being such a short time in the car.
how can we know for sure the dog didn't got mixed up with Jennifer scent ?
the poi could have walked on Americana and not continue straight, but he turned right on john young pkwy and turned left to Millenia blvd entering the other complex and from there walked back to mosaic.
Maybe he didn't even had to go back to mosaic .Maybe he
parked his car /worked / lived
there .

 

[rd_jfc]

I don't know whether to go with a morning abduction or a night one.
Thinking that the first guess is the best one I lean toward the morning.

However when an independent investigator came up with the evening shut down of the phones I was stunned.

I would like LE to confirm the phones were shut down at 10:40 pm. It could then be taken as an absolute fact.
If LE has done that I missed it.

Re: bolded by me. There is no way an independent investigator came up with anything regarding the phones. That information could only come from cell phone carrier(s) for the two phones, looking at communication records for the phones and provided to Orlando Police, who then apparently told Jennifer's parents at some point.

If an independent investigator said anything similar, they are regurgitating the information given to Jennifer's parents. Plus there was some theorizing in blogs based on locations Orlando Police have made searches. It is possible someone could have friends in Orlando Police and obtained some of the same information prior to Kesses posting about it, I don't know and don't care to speculate, but it concerns me that independent investigator could be intertwined anywhere in this critical information. Is totally unacceptable. Not talking about their interpretation of the information, talking about being a source of it or influencing it in any way.

 

[Shin Masamura]

Sorry for the sudden post, but found this from Chris Henson ie To catch a predator" fame. It about Joyces thought on the POI from a TV reporter Beau Zimmer link below.. (And it was a four day trip.)

"Among them is an ex-boyfriend of Jennifer's who was reportedly in a jealous rage after learning that she had gone to the Caribbean with Rob.

"The night before or sometime before, he had been out drinking and gotten drunk and apparently he was upset that he was not the one that was with Jennifer," said Zimmer. "They talked with him several times, and while police say he is not a suspect in the case, certainly you get the feeling from others that he should be talked to a little bit more."

Jennifer's mom Joyce says there was a married co-worker who had been hitting on Jennifer at the office.

"Jennifer arranged to meet him in the cafeteria at work so that once and for all she could tell him, 'Leave me alone, I am never going to date you. And besides, I don't date married men,'" said Joyce.

That person was questioned.

"We feel it should have been consistent to keep the pressure on that individual," said Joyce."

I need to know the timeline of the Days Her brother and friends occupied her apartment, compared to his night at the blue martini, and which friends phone it was.. his or the other guy.. Unconcluded where are you when I need you..

https://crimewatchdaily.com/2016/03/21/cold-case-jennifer-kesse-disappears-steps-from-orlando-home/

 

[Shin Masamura]

Re: bolded by me. There is no way an independent investigator came up with anything regarding the phones. That information could only come from cell phone carrier(s) for the two phones, looking at communication records for the phones and provided to Orlando Police, who then apparently told Jennifer's parents at some point.

If an independent investigator said anything similar, they are regurgitating the information given to Jennifer's parents. Plus there was some theorizing in blogs based on locations Orlando Police have made searches. It is possible someone could have friends in Orlando Police and obtained some of the same information prior to Kesses posting about it, I don't know and don't care to speculate, but it concerns me that independent investigator could be intertwined anywhere in this critical information. Is totally unacceptable. Not talking about their interpretation of the information, talking about being a source of it or influencing it in any way.

Amen, and correct me if im wrong, but she stated in Unconcluded , she was not told the 10:40 time by LE.. they want that info to hold if they catch the perps

 

[JnRyan]

I apologize for backtracking, but I think I finally found the picture of where the POI may have been standing when the facial shot was captured in "Image 3". I'll add it below in case anyone else would like to see it, and also with hope someone will tell me if it is the wrong one.

The only place I could find it was on "rd_jfc's" photo page. So, a special thank you to rd_jfc and also to J4J, the original owner. I'll upload it in a smaller size and will also link it to the bigger size.

http://www.justiceforchandra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3033&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Scroll down to second post from bottom at link and see the third picture.
______________________________________________________________________________


I'm also again adding the image of the facial shot of the POI because I want to take a moment to think of him taking extra time to backtrack around the pool to stand there and do what? Admire his handiwork?

______________________________________________________________________________


So, if I've got this correct, #4 below is where he was standing in the above images. (Please don't hesitate to let me know if anything needs adjusting.)

______________________________________________________________________________


And below is my attempt at his walking path. I tried to show him going toward the pond side of Jennifer's condo building. Notice location "B". (Letter "B" and number "4" are same location, different map layers).

I find it beyond bizarre. What kind of evil would stroll around like this at high noon in broad daylight after committing a heinous crime, or being party to it?

Has anyone listened to the "Sidebar" episode of the "Unconcluded" podcast where they talk about the POI being a teenager with a skateboard? Do we agree with him carrying a skateboard? I can't see anything so I'm open; but I don't think we are looking at a teenager. From the little I can make out from the video, I find his shoulders and upper arms look wide and large--strong, in other words. That's why I don't think it is a woman, or a man of slight build.

Always willing to admit I am wrong, though. Always. Always.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dFczQr14UJRDEX3LZefAIMp5x_U&usp=sharing
______________________________________________________________________________


Last thoughts--is everyone in agreement with "missing" sections in the video of the POI that were mentioned in episode 3 of the podcast? I was wondering if this is where the images of the face view appear?

I suppose this is foolish, but I'm wondering if a sketch artist could render a sketch from image 3? Make two or three possibilities--put them out there. See what turns up.

I'm onboard with this except for the path. And I'm a bit vague on this, but I thought the dog tracked through a field adjacent to HOTG instead of straight to the street. (Down Downing St to Tom Jones and out the back of HOTG?) Again, some of the 'facts' about this case have been refuted so this may be wrong as well.

 

[JnRyan]

In the early days of this mystery I had a theory that there was a van parked next to Jennifer's car and that van had a sliding panel door on the side, open.

When Jennifer got to her car she was bundled into the van and then driven way.

A simple idea and I believe it is still a possible scenario. The abduction would have happened in mere seconds.

I thought of this, too. I still have it as one of my scenarios if I'm considering a morning abduction. In a similar case, Jodi Huisentruit, it is believed a van was involved as well.