TX TX - Julie Moseley, 9, Mary Trlica, 17, Lisa Wilson, 14, Fort Worth, 23 Dec 1974 #8

Those who know something may well try to take that knowledge to the grave, but nothing happens in a vacuum. I still feel the girls are in the FW area, where they could be found.. JMO
 
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Teen girls (like most people) have favorite stores, and likely park in the same area. Is it known whether Rachel usually parked in the lot where the car was found? Somewhere on these threads must show the car details...like whether the seat was not set back for someone taller. I'd love to see that car re-examined now with touch DNA, etc.

If this was mall security, it is possible one of the trio did appear to steal something (on purpose or not)? Otherwise, could Rachel and Renee have known one of the guards and headed to their breakroom or wherever to hang out for a bit?

I still debate whether some passion killing (perhaps revenge) would burn strong enough to kill Julie. Blue wall or not, I think there might be leaks by now, esp if the key players are dead. What if something unplanned but no less tragic happened? Julie had an asthma attack, or one of them was stung by a bee and allergic and died. Or one of them OD'd while "hanging out," and security panicked? Maybe it was something simple that snowballed. To make it bigger needs motive. Who had motive, and what the hell was it? If it's money, and this is related to real estate, where is the trail?
 
Teen girls (like most people) have favorite stores, and likely park in the same area. Is it known whether Rachel usually parked in the lot where the car was found? Somewhere on these threads must show the car details...like whether the seat was not set back for someone taller. I'd love to see that car re-examined now with touch DNA, etc.

If this was mall security, it is possible one of the trio did appear to steal something (on purpose or not)? Otherwise, could Rachel and Renee have known one of the guards and headed to their breakroom or wherever to hang out for a bit?

I still debate whether some passion killing (perhaps revenge) would burn strong enough to kill Julie. Blue wall or not, I think there might be leaks by now, esp if the key players are dead. What if something unplanned but no less tragic happened? Julie had an asthma attack, or one of them was stung by a bee and allergic and died. Or one of them OD'd while "hanging out," and security panicked? Maybe it was something simple that snowballed. To make it bigger needs motive. Who had motive, and what the hell was it? If it's money, and this is related to real estate, where is the trail?
At first glance someone pretending to be Mall Security looks like a good possibility. However, the Runaway Letter makes this less likely, IMO. A random creep is not going to bother with a letter...they don't need to. The crime has been committed and they are miles away before anyone even realises that there is a problem. Plus, we cannot say for certain that they even visited the mall that day.

I don't believe money was the motive, IMO. If it was we would have a ransom letter instead of a runaway letter.

I think the best theory was the one laid out a few threads back. It involves Rachel returning home, with the two younger girls waiting in the car in the driveway and the situation going downhill from there. Again IMO, the last sighting of all three girls together was at that house. I believe it was at around 12.30pm ?
 
A random creep is not going to bother with a letter...they don't need to.
Yes, that's what I'd mentioned earlier. Leaving that note zooms the focus in on someone who either knew Rachel, knew (or was told) the relation to TT, but for whatever reason didn't write "Tommy," and/or took the time to get her address to mail something in the midst of a doubtless chaotic situation. You might write a note to cover all the bases. Because whoever killed likely wondered if Rachel had told people "I'm headed to see X and then to the mall." Better to (try to) switch focus to the mall and beyond timewise, than have her missing beforehand.

Not only is mayhem less risky in a private place rather than the mall, but if it had to do with Rachel (or Tommy) and follows the unplanned aspect of this whole thing, it went down at the house. That's why I'd mentioned at least Julie waiting in the car. But it stands to reason that Renee might wait with a young girl, esp if she didn't know the people Rachel went in to see. Rachel didn't wake up and say, "I'm to see X and could die". So, why did she go there? And what blew up? Because the two could be different, Rachel could have stopped to see one person, and found a third/fourth/fifth there. 99.9% of the time, I am not a believer in "she fell and hit her head," so I don't know how it escalated. But if it was business-related, could she have threatened to "tell." She could have been lured there simply to be threatened, but it went too far. Now you have two other kids out in the car (that the people in the house didn't even know were there) that have to be taken care of.

It's even possible she went to take a hit of something and OD'd, precipitating the outcome for Renee and Julie in the car. What reasons are there for Rachel to have gone there?

Side note: It seems Rachel called TT "Tommy," but what did others call him? Is there anyone in the 2nd or 3rd removed circle of acquaintances that would have called him "Thomas"? That would be his name on legal documents, if someone was looking at those but didn't know TT personally...
 
I was reading this quote from Rusty from an NBC News article from 2018, when the cars where being retrieved from Benbrook Lake :

“But the third car – the diver went down there and brought up a piece of it and I was able to identify what kind of car it was before we even brought it out of the lake,” Rusty said.

If I have it correct, two cars were retrieved from Benbrook Lake, but the third was in bad condition and could not be retrieved. Does anyone know what the make of the third car in the lake is ?
 
Can you link to that article? It sounds like Rusty just knows his vehicles and recognized it from a single piece, small enough to carry up, like part of a grill, head or taillight. But I'd be interested to know if he commented any further, "so-n-so owned one of those." Or maybe he did, just not to the public.
 
I was reading this quote from Rusty from an NBC News article from 2018, when the cars where being retrieved from Benbrook Lake :

“But the third car – the diver went down there and brought up a piece of it and I was able to identify what kind of car it was before we even brought it out of the lake,” Rusty said.

If I have it correct, two cars were retrieved from Benbrook Lake, but the third was in bad condition and could not be retrieved. Does anyone know what the make of the third car in the lake is ?
I'm going totally from memory here, but I believe they brought up a piece of the 3rd car and it was distinguishable enough to say it was from a model that was a year or two after the girls went missing. So, it was from a 1976 or later model car.
 
Can you link to that article? It sounds like Rusty just knows his vehicles and recognized it from a single piece, small enough to carry up, like part of a grill, head or taillight. But I'd be interested to know if he commented any further, "so-n-so owned one of those." Or maybe he did, just not to the public.
Link below, DD Byrd.

 
I'm going totally from memory here, but I believe they brought up a piece of the 3rd car and it was distinguishable enough to say it was from a model that was a year or two after the girls went missing. So, it was from a 1976 or later model car.
Anything that rolled off the production line later than 1974 is 99.9% a 'red herring' in this case, IMO.
 
So who had access to a car and was either willing to lose it, or wanted to get rid of it anyway? A friend of a friend of a friend may not even know to this day what the car was involved in. Is there even a wisp of a chance an junked car (with bodies in trunk, etc.) was loaded on a wrecker and towed there? That lake looks to be in the absolute boondocks, and that's NOW. Around Christmas in '74 it would've been desolate, but was this whole thing so planned out a disposal car was ready, or were the killings impulsive and the bodies lay until a car was found?

To me, the letter was hurried, but also sounds dictated by someone else; I see the writer anticipating the next word of the composer and stopping in time to cause the hesitation/"do-over" marks. He/she either added "to" in front of" get" after "get" was written, or regularly thought of it as one word.."toget"... away, but it looks tight. Then re-entering the correct apostrophe for "we're." It's entirely possible this was a draft, but either there was only one piece of paper and it "had to do," or the composer (male) wasn't physically with the writer (needed 'female' writing) to see the obvious mistakes and have it done over. So, a phone call...."quick, get a pen and write this down..." I'm sensing someone trying to be grammatically correct and proper (sidenote: "Thomas") who actually wasn't him or herself.

Then the change of mind or afterthought on "Houston." That wasn't the original letter, which looks like to be a "B", "C," "G" or "F" if a capital, but almost anything if not, and not certain it was a location. "We're going to be back by, wait no, we're going to..." Also a spacial pause after the "to," I see thinking on the fly. Plus, the period after Houston is so close and dark. Possibly written "We're going to . " and was filled in after the framework was written. He/she/they left a blank while they figured out what to write, then stretched the "n" in Houston to the right to fit. I think "see" was the start of "seeing" or some other word and was abruptly stopped but who knows. There are also a lot of higher pressure spots, bolded. Either to overwrite or some subconscious finality.

After seeing this note many times, my biggest takeaway this time is back to the original red-flag of "Rachel." I'd always thought someone had started to spell Rachel incorrectly. But looking at it now, the 2nd (wrong) "e" had a definite stop. Could someone had been writing "Rachel" but THINKING "Renee," and wrote Rachee...then fixed it? They'd already gotten the first "e" correct, so why is their brain seeing another one? If you knew the spelling as RachAel, you'd have written the "a" first and the overwritten letter doesn't look like an "a." If you were writing "Rachle" by accident, you'd have already blown it and be trying to hide a tall "l". This might be a reach... but if you're writing an "h," it's the same endstroke as an "n," and "nee" could have been the result of someone thinking "Renee." If it was an "n" it looks like a match to the one in "going." Further, if there was the same huge space after the R in Rachel as their was with the T in The, I can even see it signed "R enee" originally, with the "n" converted to an "h" and the "a" in Rachel added afterward, albeit pretty smoothly. Overall, the double "e" in "week" looks natural, as does the word "upper," so unless this person was truly ambidextrous, I don't think it was an attempt to write with the non-dominant writing hand. But it's jerky and possibly not written in full the first time. Curious if schools were already teaching manuscript rather than script in the early 70s? That could narrow the age range (of the writer, anyway). As I've said before, "catch it" sounds like a regional thing to say, as in, I don't think whoever wrote this was from the Bronx.

"I know I'm going to catch it, but we just had toget away. We'r'e going to Houston.Seei you _in about a week. T_he car is in Sear's upper lot." Love R_enee or Racheel

I don't think the way it was ultimately made to be read is what it originally said, even before the signature.
 
So who had access to a car and was either willing to lose it, or wanted to get rid of it anyway? A friend of a friend of a friend may not even know to this day what the car was involved in. Is there even a wisp of a chance an junked car (with bodies in trunk, etc.) was loaded on a wrecker and towed there? That lake looks to be in the absolute boondocks, and that's NOW. Around Christmas in '74 it would've been desolate, but was this whole thing so planned out a disposal car was ready, or were the killings impulsive and the bodies lay until a car was found?
RSBM
There was a theory posed that the girls were killed by Rachel's husband and sunk in a car belonging to him into Benbrook Lake. While I don't buy that particular theory, Rachel's husband and father  would have connections to people with salvage yards (since they raced and owned an auto repair shop). LE would also have these connections/access.
To me, the letter was hurried, but also sounds dictated by someone else; I see the writer anticipating the next word of the composer and stopping in time to cause the hesitation/"do-over" marks. He/she either added "to" in front of" get" after "get" was written, or regularly thought of it as one word.."toget"... away, but it looks tight. Then re-entering the correct apostrophe for "we're." It's entirely possible this was a draft, but either there was only one piece of paper and it "had to do," or the composer (male) wasn't physically with the writer (needed 'female' writing) to see the obvious mistakes and have it done over. So, a phone call...."quick, get a pen and write this down..." I'm sensing someone trying to be grammatically correct and proper (sidenote: "Thomas") who actually wasn't him or herself.

Then the change of mind or afterthought on "Houston." That wasn't the original letter, which looks like to be a "B", "C," "G" or "F" if a capital, but almost anything if not, and not certain it was a location. "We're going to be back by, wait no, we're going to..." Also a spacial pause after the "to," I see thinking on the fly. Plus, the period after Houston is so close and dark. Possibly written "We're going to . " and was filled in after the framework was written. He/she/they left a blank while they figured out what to write, then stretched the "n" in Houston to the right to fit. I think "see" was the start of "seeing" or some other word and was abruptly stopped but who knows. There are also a lot of higher pressure spots, bolded. Either to overwrite or some subconscious finality.

After seeing this note many times, my biggest takeaway this time is back to the original red-flag of "Rachel." I'd always thought someone had started to spell Rachel incorrectly. But looking at it now, the 2nd (wrong) "e" had a definite stop. Could someone had been writing "Rachel" but THINKING "Renee," and wrote Rachee...then fixed it? They'd already gotten the first "e" correct, so why is their brain seeing another one? If you knew the spelling as RachAel, you'd have written the "a" first and the overwritten letter doesn't look like an "a." If you were writing "Rachle" by accident, you'd have already blown it and be trying to hide a tall "l". This might be a reach... but if you're writing an "h," it's the same endstroke as an "n," and "nee" could have been the result of someone thinking "Renee." If it was an "n" it looks like a match to the one in "going." Further, if there was the same huge space after the R in Rachel as their was with the T in The, I can even see it signed "R enee" originally, with the "n" converted to an "h" and the "a" in Rachel added afterward, albeit pretty smoothly. Overall, the double "e" in "week" looks natural, as does the word "upper," so unless this person was truly ambidextrous, I don't think it was an attempt to write with the non-dominant writing hand. But it's jerky and possibly not written in full the first time. Curious if schools were already teaching manuscript rather than script in the early 70s? That could narrow the age range (of the writer, anyway). As I've said before, "catch it" sounds like a regional thing to say, as in, I don't think whoever wrote this was from the Bronx.

"I know I'm going to catch it, but we just had toget away. We'r'e going to Houston.Seei you _in about a week. T_he car is in Sear's upper lot." Love R_enee or Racheel

I don't think the way it was ultimately made to be read is what it originally said, even before the signature.
IMO, "Houston" looks like it could've been intended to be "Dallas", but someone changed their mind. Also, I feel Renee and Rachel could've collaborated on the letter (possibly under duress). Renee's father stated confidently in a podcast (apologies I don't recall which one) Rachel did not write the letter,  but I don't recall him ever actually stating that Renee didn't write it.
Houston rapist/serial killer Dean Corll forced one of his victims (Billy Ray Lawrence) to write a letter to his father that imo bears a striking resemblance to the letter in this case. Corll was killed in 1973 (and went strictly for boys), but someone with ties to Houston would've likely known about that case, and might've been inspired to do similar. Just a thought, and jmo.
 
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If you look around any auto repair shop you will cars that have been there forever. The owners essentially abandon them rather than pay for the repairs. Some may abandon the car (in exchange for waiving the tow bill) before any work is started. Others won’t pay once the work is done. A shop can get legal possession of abandoned cars, but most owners aren’t going to follow up. So it’s possible a car would be available, maybe even one that runs but has a transmission repair the owner didn’t wish to pay for.

So I think it’s quite possible to come up with a car no one would notice is missing. But I think it’s unlikely that was done.
 
(maybe not so) long time no see.
Another long break from thinking about this case. Back again, and I have a question.

General narrative tends to suggest that there was such a strong jealousy between DA and Rachel.
Some allegedly confirmed claims report they got into a fight over TT night before.
I know that, y'all know that.
BUT
How on Earth we (kinda) all just kinda accepted that's pretty likely that two teenage wives are getting along perfectly?

I mean come the freaking on. One moment there is a fist fight with sister over a guy. And about twelwe hours later his ex randomly shows up to pick up their son, changing all premade Christmas arrangements and there is like zero annoyance, just a friendly chat? And no tension? No jealousy going on from either side here?

Oh yeah? So you're randomly showing up at our house, with no guarantee that I'm here with the baby and you decide to pick him up, despite of agreeing earlier he'll be with us on Christmas? That's perfectly fine! Come on in and chat with my friends while I'll be packing up his stuff, while I'm going to be all cheery and happy while seeing my husband's ex.
 
(maybe not so) long time no see.
Another long break from thinking about this case. Back again, and I have a question.

General narrative tends to suggest that there was such a strong jealousy between DA and Rachel.
Some allegedly confirmed claims report they got into a fight over TT night before.
I know that, y'all know that.
BUT
How on Earth we (kinda) all just kinda accepted that's pretty likely that two teenage wives are getting along perfectly?

I mean come the freaking on. One moment there is a fist fight with sister over a guy. And about twelwe hours later his ex randomly shows up to pick up their son, changing all premade Christmas arrangements and there is like zero annoyance, just a friendly chat? And no tension? No jealousy going on from either side here?

Oh yeah? So you're randomly showing up at our house, with no guarantee that I'm here with the baby and you decide to pick him up, despite of agreeing earlier he'll be with us on Christmas? That's perfectly fine! Come on in and chat with my friends while I'll be packing up his stuff, while I'm going to be all cheery and happy while seeing my husband's ex.
Good point. JMO, but I don't believe either event happened (the "fight" or the "pick-up"). I think it was a P.I. stirring the pot to see what would happen...again, jmo
 
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Good point. JMO, but I don't believe either event happened (the "fight" or the "pick-up"). I think it was a P.I. stirring the pot to see what would happen...again, jmo
I seem to recall TTs first wive sent an email (to LE ?) back in 2000 outlining the 'pick up' and seeing Rachel at Minot Ave., in the Oldsmobile at around 12.30pm, I think.

I would love to see a copy of that email.
 
If something happened at the house or for that matter anywhere that involved the first wife, why would she put herself at the house that day when it appears no one else mentioned her being there that I am aware of? This email about see Rachel at the house kind of makes me think the ex was not involved in any way.
 
If something happened at the house or for that matter anywhere that involved the first wife, why would she put herself at the house that day when it appears no one else mentioned her being there that I am aware of? This email about see Rachel at the house kind of makes me think the ex was not involved in any way.
I would tend to agree with you that she was not involved, for the reasons that you have outlined. However, I can't help wondering if she has, at minimum, a good idea of what happened that day, (if it went down the way I suspect it did).
 
Good point. JMO, but I don't believe either event happened (the "fight" or the "pick-up"). I think it was a P.I. stirring the pot to see what would happen...again, jmo
Well I don't believe both of these things could happen within limits of logic of this universum (unless sisters hated each other deeply, while current and ex wife were best friends - I don't recall anyone suggesting that).
If something happened at the house or for that matter anywhere that involved the first wife, why would she put herself at the house that day when it appears no one else mentioned her being there that I am aware of? This email about see Rachel at the house kind of makes me think the ex was not involved in any way.
a) Cause she was there, everything went as she said, she left like she said and wasn't involved in the disappearance so she said what she could to possibly help in search/investigation. No reason to not put herself anywhere she was if she wasn't involved.
b) Cause she was there and was involved in something and some neighbours could see/remember that.
 
b) Cause she was there and was involved in something and some neighbours could see/remember that.
I'm going with b. She knew she may have been seen, and that's all it would take. Especially with someone who may have been 'clever' (or lucky) enough to write or dictate the letter "signed" by RA, that also found a way to leave the car at the mall. Even in the early 70s she'd have known fingerprints are clues. She'd have to be in the house to leave them, though doubtful she would have considered fresh versus overlapped. But then to fit Julie and Renee in...were they in the car and came to see where Rachel was, and there was a resulting blood bath? I read that somewhere as well, which I don't think is a valid source.
 

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