UK - Prince Andrew accused of underage sexual relationship, 1999-2002 *settled* #2

[zwiebel]

One of the woman involved in the sex abuse and exploitation case revolving around financier Jeffrey Epstein has named the UK's Prince Andrew as one of the men she was forced to sleep with when she was 17 - under the age of consent in Florida, where it's alleged to have happened.

'The woman, one of several in the lawsuit, and who filed the motion anonymously, alleges that between 1999 and 2002 — when she was a minor — she was repeatedly sexually abused and lent out by Epstein to rich and influential men around the world. Among her claims is that she was forced to have sex three times with Prince Andrew, says The Guardian'

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/.../?hootPostID=e4b6948e39274b3819c337a25c7d25bd

Buckingham Palace has said it will not comment on the detail of the case, except to say any allegations Prince Andrew slept with a minor are 'categorically untrue'.

Prince Andrew is pictured with Jeffrey Epstein, below.
Prince Andrew sex case claim denied

Thread #1

 

[Dotta]

Prince Andrew's 'brinkmanship' over sex abuse trial risks 'bringing down the monarchy' | Daily Mail Online

 

[mickey2942]

Prince Andrew denies sexual abuse allegations and asks for a jury trial in Virginia Giuffre lawsuit - CNN

Who believes PA?

Edited to add: I watched his "train wreck" of an interview, it was painful. If he is telling the truth, why does he sound so defensive? He had all of the classic "tell" signs of a person who was lying, and doing it very badly. This is my own opinion. But this bravado of asking for a jury trial is absolutely ridiculous. PA obviously has zero clue how he appears to others.

 

[UK Girl]

Prince Andrew denies sexual abuse allegations and asks for a jury trial in Virginia Giuffre lawsuit - CNN

Who believes PA?

I believe he possibly didnt know how old she was or that she was trafficked although she was above the age of consent here if he was going down that angle...but...some of his answers I just dont understand and are going to make him look guilty whether he is or not ie about being close friends with Maxwell or them going to this daughters party or about throwing a party for her or not knowing if he met her or not...things that can so easily be disproved.

 

[Dotta]

Prince Andrew denies sexual abuse allegations and asks for a jury trial in Virginia Giuffre lawsuit - CNN

Who believes PA?

Edited to add: I watched his "train wreck" of an interview, it was painful. If he is telling the truth, why does he sound so defensive? He had all of the classic "tell" signs of a person who was lying, and doing it very badly. This is my own opinion. But this bravado of asking for a jury trial is absolutely ridiculous. PA obviously has zero clue how he appears to others.

But isn't there a saying that if God wants to punish somebody, deprives them of reason?

 

[tayaway]

Prince Andrew denies sexual abuse allegations and asks for a jury trial in Virginia Giuffre lawsuit - CNN

Who believes PA?

Edited to add: I watched his "train wreck" of an interview, it was painful. If he is telling the truth, why does he sound so defensive? He had all of the classic "tell" signs of a person who was lying, and doing it very badly. This is my own opinion. But this bravado of asking for a jury trial is absolutely ridiculous. PA obviously has zero clue how he appears to others.

I honestly don't know one way or the other. It appears that PA's own words and actions are sabotaging any defense he may have. Good ol' hubris.

 

[UK Girl]

I honestly don't know one way or the other. It appears that PA's own words and actions are sabotaging any defense he may have. Good ol' hubris.

This is the issue I have. I believe he possibly had sex with her but didnt know how old she was ( although her age wasnt an issue here) and maybe he didnt know she was trafficked...but...surely the logical thing would be then to admit that and come what may? because saying things like he isnt close friends with Maxwell make no sense and then its like if you cant believe him about simple things like that how can he expect people to believe him about anything else?

 

[mickey2942]

A jury trial is such a bad idea. PA..stop the madness! Settle this mess out of court, stat! Then go home, and stay there.

Normal folks serve on juries. This didn't go well for GM.

 

[UK Girl]

A jury trial is such a bad idea. PA..stop the madness! Settle this mess out of court, stat! Then go home, and stay there.

Normal folks serve on juries. This didn't go well for GM.

In theory though should a man settle out of court if innocent just to stop it all? ( Not saying he is but in general)

 

[UK Girl]

Prince Andrew's 'brinkmanship' over sex abuse trial risks 'bringing down the monarchy' | Daily Mail Online

 

[UK Girl]

Voices: Prince Andrew wants a jury trial now? He’ll be in for a rude awakening (msn.com)

 

[Dotta]

In theory though should a man settle out of court if innocent just to stop it all? ( Not saying he is but in general)

I think that PA is afraid that a settlement - and thus indirect admission of guilt - might lead to criminal trial in future.
So he decided to stake everything on this lawsuit - trial and Jury.
Who knows, he seems to be lucky - a silver spoon and all
MOO

 

[Herat]

He had Epstein and Ghislane over to private Royal palaces multiple times. One of those included the 18 birthday party for one of the daughters, which was a very big do' with an expensive costume ball.

There is a photograph of Ghislane sitting on a throne in one of the palaces.

He is photographed multiple times with her in her company. He was photographed inside her home in London

You cannot get me to believe he was not a friend of Ghislane's, so this simple statement of his appears a blatant falsehood and casts extreme doubt on anything else he states. I cannot see how he thinks a public trial is an ethical and reasonable behaviour.

 

[UK Girl]

He had Epstein and Ghislane over to private Royal palaces multiple times. One of those included the 18 birthday party for one of the daughters, which was a very big do' with an expensive costume ball.

There is a photograph of Ghislane sitting on a throne in one of the palaces.

He is photographed multiple times with her in her company. He was photographed inside her home in London

You cannot get me to believe he was not a friend of Ghislane's, so this simple statement of his appears a blatant falsehood and casts extreme doubt on anything else he states. I cannot see how he thinks a public trial is an ethical and reasonable behaviour.

I am confused...you dont think its ethical and reasonable behaviour for him to fight it when it wasnt even him who called the court case?

 

[tedtink]

Prince Andrew denies sexual abuse allegations and asks for a jury trial in Virginia Giuffre lawsuit - CNN

Who believes PA?

Edited to add: I watched his "train wreck" of an interview, it was painful. If he is telling the truth, why does he sound so defensive? He had all of the classic "tell" signs of a person who was lying, and doing it very badly. This is my own opinion. But this bravado of asking for a jury trial is absolutely ridiculous. PA obviously has zero clue how he appears to others.

Have you watched 'The Behavior Panel' on YouTube dissecting PA's interview?
Very interesting

 

[tedtink]

I believe he possibly didnt know how old she was or that she was trafficked although she was above the age of consent here if he was going down that angle...but...some of his answers I just dont understand and are going to make him look guilty whether he is or not ie about being close friends with Maxwell or them going to this daughters party or about throwing a party for her or not knowing if he met her or not...things that can so easily be disproved.

Read VG's memoir.
One of the first things that GM allegedly said to PA when he entered the London townhouse .............
"how old do you think Jenna is"? When Andrew guessed correctly, I was seventeen years old, she was surprised, thinking I could have passed for younger"

DocumentCloud

 

[Kristin Esq.]

It's interesting that while Andrew just denies or can't confirm or deny, each specific count, he offers nothing to exonerate himself.

moo

This is a typical answer for a civil lawsuit. Address each of the paragraphs in the complaint and list your affirmative defenses.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

@LisaBloom
·
5m

This one's a doozy: Prince Andrew's 5th defense, CONSENT. I didn't do it, he says, but if I did do it, she consented. Underaged girls cannot consent to sex with adult males. If I were taking Andrew's deposition I would start here. Are you saying she consented? So it happened?
bbm

He actually said this? ..if I did do it? And he says he didn't do it.
So was he sleepwalking or what?

Defendants will put all affirmative defenses in the Answer, that may work for the type of lawsuit.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

If he’s innocent, it’s very hard to prove a negative.

Also, I understand that his ‘side’ have not seen the evidence nor has ‘discovery’ taken place.

Give it all time to surface, let’s see if he counter sues for defamation etc.

Clear now as to why The Queen demoted him to ‘private citizen’.

The Royals usually buy their way out of trouble, perhaps he’d been smarter to just pay her off with no admission of guilt.

I do understand how that would look given the nature of the case.

In civil cases, it's not about innocense and guilt. It's liable vs. not liable. And the burden of proof is different. In criminal cases it's beyond a reasonable doubt, but in civil cases its a preponderance of the evidence, which means that the plaintiff showed that a particular fact or event was more likely than not to have occured.

 

[Kristin Esq.]

I think that PA is afraid that a settlement - and thus indirect admission of guilt - might lead to criminal trial in future.
So he decided to stake everything on this lawsuit - trial and Jury.
Who knows, he seems to be lucky - a silver spoon and all
MOO

In my opinion, this is very likely to settle. This is just a normal part of the process. When I was handling civil cases, there was always a demand of jury trial. Then we would conduct discovery - demands and depositions, and then there is medidation and eventually a settlement. And usually in the settlement agreement, it states that there is no admission of guilt.