WA WA - Seattle, WhtFem 30-50, 159UFWA, alias 'Mary Anderson', copper IUD, breast surgery scars, Oct'96

[GloSeattle]

Thank you for contacting them. Their response is really frustrating--and odd, considering there had been a bit of publicity surrounding her case that made it seem like they wanted the public's help. I wonder if this is why she isn't in Namus. It's almost like they don't care if she's identified. :banghead:

One must admit that with the advent of the internet and social media (while many good things have occurred) there are some very bad things that have occurred as well. People feel an anonymity that precludes them showing respect for professionals and their work. I'm sure I'm not the ONLY person who has contacted KCME requesting additional information and perhaps other callers that day had accused the "phone" staffer's office of "not knowing what they were doing." I know many times when I am "reminded" of someone's credentials it's not so much about "me" and rather about "them." With the prevailing attitude towards authority figures (although some is deserved) a lot of it is unnecessary and negative and nonproductive in nature. I think, for myself, I've had to cultivate relationships over the years a bit harder as a result of other's "lack of manners." (I think anyone working with the public would agree, it's just not the same please and thank you world we were all raised to behave properly in.) So in fairness to the Anthropologist whom I did not have the pleasure of speaking to, I will defer any opinions until I do. I will try her again next week and see if she's in her office. (I won't give up till I'm told to go away but I'll be courteous about it as well.)

 

[iamnotagolem]

I read through this entire thread today, it's amazing she was never identified.

My first thought was she was a spy of some sort, but the weight thing really makes that seem unlikely.

Despite having on lipstick, she doesn't appear to have on eyeliner or mascara, possibly not even eye shadow (really hard to tell in the black & white, could be natural darkness around the eyes or results of the cyanide).

The choice of clothing definitely suggests an older person, 50s-60s.

I do wonder if her weight contributed to her suicide, she seemed very organized in everything she did leading to her death, but her weight seems out of the ordinary for someone so neat and disciplined. JMO

Sorry I've been reading for hours and forgot half of what I was planning to post.

 

[FiveFelines]

The wahmee article is not on the web any longer it’s been taken down. I found a copy of it at: I think it's in this old deleted article by Todd Matthews "Something About Mary" I found a website where there's a copy of it along with the cipher article which was also taken off the net:
http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/archive...013&t=823074-1

That is odd. I just found it at that link yesterday.

 

[FiveFelines]

She was found with two pairs of eyeglasses. Would be interesting to know if these were glasses she wore regularly, as they are not included in any of the sketches of her, as is the case with some UIDs.

 

[RubyJuno]

I'm so glad that someone mentioned Judith O'Donnell. I'm of an age with her, so she's the first person I thought of when it came to Mary Anderson.

I sure wish I knew more about that bowl, too.

This is a fascinating thread.

 

[dogperson]

I've never felt suicidal but I think if I were doing it in a "planned" sort of way I would want to make up my face and fix my hair. Did someone else take her dental plate out before taking that photo? A lady who does her hair and makeup before committing suicide seems unlikely to not put her teeth in.

The bowl, could she have mixed something in it or have planned to? The only time I've ever taken a bowl to a hotel is when we travel with our small dog but I take it there's no evidence of a pet. Unless it had passed while she was on her trip, for she did have a fair amount of clothing with her and may have traveled for several days before reaching the hotel, so maybe something happened to the dog and it was the last straw? Like maybe she was already upset and that was the final thing?

I also got to thinking maybe she had traveled to the area to meet a man and things didn't go well. She might not have had anyone else in her life she was close to. So she checks in and commits suicide.

I don't know, just kind of grasping at straws here, but it's amazing she was never identified unless she wasn't originally from the US.

 

[LkjAndersen]

This site, http://meyahna.tripod.com/pg19.html, that someone linked to earlier, has a list of her possessions.

-two bags with no tags
-half a dozen stretch velour outfits separated in hues of emerald green, fuchsia, navy and black found hanging in the closet
-a cobalt blue Himalaya Outfitters jacket
-a pair of panty hose
-shoes
-packed, size 10, slippers for comfort
-black leather gloves from Nordstrom
-an expensive olive-green, woven-leather purse which contained $36.78 in cash
-Estée Lauder cosmetics (among which were Starlit Pink and Rich and Rosy color lipsticks)
-Estée Lauder Private Collection perfume
-toothpaste
-Metamucil
-Crystal Light
-a King James Bible
-a kitchen bowl
-an iron
-A copy of the Seattle's weekly with a pressed maple leaf on a page found on the hotel's desk
-Two pairs of eyeglasses of The Villager (by Liz Claiborne) and Alfred Dunner brands available at what was then The Bon Marché, or at J.C. Penney and in Canada, at Sears or Hudson's.

I assume that the bible belonged to the hotel, though, now that it is mentioned, it is specifically called, in what I've read, the "King James bible", not "a bible" or "a Gideon bible". But that is probably a matter of choice of nomenclature, on part of whoever first described it. It doesn't necessarily mean she brought her own along with her.

I gotta say, it is a strange mix of things. It feels like she packed thinking ahead, "I will need to look my best", "what if it is cold?", "I need several sets of clothes", "Oh, this is a nice leaf". Not like she was planning suicide. At least not when she left home

I don't wonder about the bowl, if she was on a metamucil diet, she probably wanted one around. The iron is strange, though. I don't know why she would feel the need to pack that.

Seattle Weekly, did she get it from the hotel, or had she been in town for a short while? If she got the magazine at a hotel, she would have to have left her room after checking in, during which she would find the leaf.

I googled the glasses, and I think the Villager series are sunglasses or sportsglasses, not necessarily prescription.

I see toothpaste, but, and this may just be lacking from the list, no toothbrush, soaps, shampoos or what have you. She has a fortune worth of make-up, and she is satisfied with hotel-soap?

She lacks any form of ID, credit-cards, drivers-license, receipts from her day around town. Probably destroyed before she killed herself.

And, I think it was GloSeattle, who noticed that she didn't have any jewelry. Which, yes, seems strange for a woman with otherwise seemingly expensive tastes.

I am thinking, either she didn't leave home planning on suicide, that plan came to her later, or she did plan suicide, and went on a final hurrah, surrounding herself with what she considered the finer things in life, spending the last of her money, but not having enough for jewelry. And when she had just enough for the hotel, check in, check out. Do we know if her possessions seemed "worn", like she had actually spend time using them, or if they seemed recently purchased? Though the Metamucil and Crystal light speaks against that. If I were on a "To heck with it all, I am spending my money before I die!" tour, my weight would probably not be on my list of worries.

I am thinking some sort of connection to New York. It is a real adress and a real zipcode, they just don't go together, with 132 East Third being Manhattan and 11103 being Astoria, Queens. The 212-569 area codes were introduced in 1994, according to allareacodes.com. I don't think she was a native New Yorker, but she was able to rattle off a real adress, a real zipcode and a fake number with a recently introduced New York area code. So I am thinking that she at least knew people in New York and/or had lived in the city. According to the phonenumber, within the last 18 or so months.

 

[FiveFelines]

Agree with most of these observations. Couple of thoughts:

I was under the impression that she mixed the cyanide with the Metamucil to speed its activity. I assumed she liked Crystal Light and/or used that to mask any bad taste from the cyanide, but don't know if this is correct.

The major strike against the spur-of-the-moment suicide theory is that cyanide wasn't easily obtained back then. It's not a spur-of-the-moment suicide method in that respect.

 

[FiveFelines]

I think just because she seems to have killed herself not long into her stay at the Seattle hotel, that doesn't mean that this was the only destination in her travels. She could have spent a few days or a week or whatever traveling elsewhere in Seattle, Washington, the US, or even Canada. She was so methodical about everything else, I wouldn't be surprised if she had planned this trip as her final journey and Seattle was her last stop.

Just imagine that you have decided to end your life for whatever reason. You get your affairs in order, decide to see or do whatever might have been on your bucket list, buy plane tickets or whatnot. You obtain the cyanide. Maybe you gave away your belongings or don't want them used to help identify you, so you purchase enough clothing for the trip, keeping things simple by buying seven of the same comfortable outfit. You like to look nice, so you buy or pack cosmetics. Maybe you bring the bowl because you think you might need it to mix the cyanide with the Metamucil or food but end up just mixing it in a glass.

 

[GloSeattle]

She was found with two pairs of eyeglasses. Would be interesting to know if these were glasses she wore regularly, as they are not included in any of the sketches of her, as is the case with some UIDs.

They were mentioned as over the counter standard readers, so she wouldn't have worn them unless she was reading.

 

[GloSeattle]

I'm so glad that someone mentioned Judith O'Donnell. I'm of an age with her, so she's the first person I thought of when it came to Mary Anderson.

I sure wish I knew more about that bowl, too.

This is a fascinating thread.

Yes, I thought the similarities between she and Judith O'Donnell to be striking. I know Judy was 2 inches taller but... as you age you loose height, plus back in the Department of Licensing days they did NOT measure you, and everyone wanted to be taller and would say (I'm 5ft 9 when you are really 5ft 7), moreover MOST medical offices do not measure you or have devices that are not functioning correctly (I'm in the medical field, and I've seen it first hand!). So, I believe sincerely the KME measured her correctly, but again in post mortem you begin to "recede" it's possible after 2 days of decomposition she may have lost an inch of tissue on the bottom of her feet and other tissues. I say it's possible, not for sure... Also this is why I wanted to know if they took a DNA sample. I'm sure if they did it would be easy to compare it to Judith and see if there's a match. Judith had bad front teeth, and it was suspected she might be a "high end call girl" therefore, looking at her pictures with her flat chest, having breast surgery and having an upper plate (she might have been injured in the mouth due to her line of work) would make perfect sense to me. Yeah I saw the similarities right off, and Seattle would be the end of the world for her. She had said she wanted to be an actress or a singer... where do you go to do that? Hollywood!

 

[GloSeattle]

Agree with most of these observations. Couple of thoughts:

I was under the impression that she mixed the cyanide with the Metamucil to speed its activity. I assumed she liked Crystal Light and/or used that to mask any bad taste from the cyanide, but don't know if this is correct.

The major strike against the spur-of-the-moment suicide theory is that cyanide wasn't easily obtained back then. It's not a spur-of-the-moment suicide method in that respect.

Yes, the Crystal Light probably was a staple of hers with her weight as it was (someone who has breast implants was probably NOT always heavy and cared about her appearance), and it's a great way to mask the taste of bitterness. The Metamucil is also a staple of people with eating disorders or dieters that's been going on for quite a long time and even now. Laxatives make the bowel take on more water, thereby depleting water as a nutrient in the body, causing the stool to be more watery and with the fiber create more bowel movements. Depriving the body of any additional liquids would aid in the cyanide's work in that it would be more concentrated. Small amounts of cyanide can be tolerated and excreted through the urine, however water would be a necessary element in order to assist in it's exit. Crystal Light contains B12, and cyanide overwhelms the body with B12 causing organs to shut down. So, again my thoughts she must have worked in an industry where she had access and possible exposure on a small level to cyanide. It might have made her have some in her system as time went on. Taking the breast implant out was a result of her weight gain, and I believe the weight gain was a by product of her depression. But again only my thoughts.

 

[GloSeattle]

This site, http://meyahna.tripod.com/pg19.html, that someone linked to earlier, has a list of her possessions.



I assume that the bible belonged to the hotel, though, now that it is mentioned, it is specifically called, in what I've read, the "King James bible", not "a bible" or "a Gideon bible". But that is probably a matter of choice of nomenclature, on part of whoever first described it. It doesn't necessarily mean she brought her own along with her.

I gotta say, it is a strange mix of things. It feels like she packed thinking ahead, "I will need to look my best", "what if it is cold?", "I need several sets of clothes", "Oh, this is a nice leaf". Not like she was planning suicide. At least not when she left home

I don't wonder about the bowl, if she was on a metamucil diet, she probably wanted one around. The iron is strange, though. I don't know why she would feel the need to pack that.

Seattle Weekly, did she get it from the hotel, or had she been in town for a short while? If she got the magazine at a hotel, she would have to have left her room after checking in, during which she would find the leaf.

I googled the glasses, and I think the Villager series are sunglasses or sportsglasses, not necessarily prescription.

I see toothpaste, but, and this may just be lacking from the list, no toothbrush, soaps, shampoos or what have you. She has a fortune worth of make-up, and she is satisfied with hotel-soap?

She lacks any form of ID, credit-cards, drivers-license, receipts from her day around town. Probably destroyed before she killed herself.

And, I think it was GloSeattle, who noticed that she didn't have any jewelry. Which, yes, seems strange for a woman with otherwise seemingly expensive tastes.

I am thinking, either she didn't leave home planning on suicide, that plan came to her later, or she did plan suicide, and went on a final hurrah, surrounding herself with what she considered the finer things in life, spending the last of her money, but not having enough for jewelry. And when she had just enough for the hotel, check in, check out. Do we know if her possessions seemed "worn", like she had actually spend time using them, or if they seemed recently purchased? Though the Metamucil and Crystal light speaks against that. If I were on a "To heck with it all, I am spending my money before I die!" tour, my weight would probably not be on my list of worries.

I am thinking some sort of connection to New York. It is a real adress and a real zipcode, they just don't go together, with 132 East Third being Manhattan and 11103 being Astoria, Queens. The 212-569 area codes were introduced in 1994, according to allareacodes.com. I don't think she was a native New Yorker, but she was able to rattle off a real adress, a real zipcode and a fake number with a recently introduced New York area code. So I am thinking that she at least knew people in New York and/or had lived in the city. According to the phonenumber, within the last 18 or so months.

Spot on! I wanted to ask about her toothbrush too if I ever have the chance to talk to anyone at KME's office... and the Bible if it's new or old... and agreed on the jewelry, it's a clue no doubt, and yes the clothing (what she died in was NOT velour and her being around my age no one my age wore velour, I think that was just a "plant" to throw people off or to stay warm in a supposed cold climate) I wanted to ask if the clothing had been worn, laundered, etc... I believe a lot of what she had was purchased in Seattle before she checked in and her identifiable items were disposed of. And YES I believe she was from New York even though the address was fake, she had the zip codes and the phone number area codes down on the spot on her registration, or as you say at least VERY familiar with NY AC's and Zip Codes.

 

[FiveFelines]

Yes, the Crystal Light probably was a staple of hers with her weight as it was (someone who has breast implants was probably NOT always heavy and cared about her appearance), and it's a great way to mask the taste of bitterness. The Metamucil is also a staple of people with eating disorders or dieters that's been going on for quite a long time and even now. Laxatives make the bowel take on more water, thereby depleting water as a nutrient in the body, causing the stool to be more watery and with the fiber create more bowel movements. Depriving the body of any additional liquids would aid in the cyanide's work in that it would be more concentrated. Small amounts of cyanide can be tolerated and excreted through the urine, however water would be a necessary element in order to assist in it's exit. Crystal Light contains B12, and cyanide overwhelms the body with B12 causing organs to shut down. So, again my thoughts she must have worked in an industry where she had access and possible exposure on a small level to cyanide. It might have made her have some in her system as time went on. Taking the breast implant out was a result of her weight gain, and I believe the weight gain was a by product of her depression. But again only my thoughts.

Agreed. I thought she had a breast reduction ( not implants per se)?

Re: Judith O'Donnell. I believe her sister is or was on Websleuths somewhere....

 

[GloSeattle]

Agreed. I thought she had a breast reduction ( not implants per se)?

Re: Judith O'Donnell. I believe her sister is or was on Websleuths somewhere....

I was under the impression she had her implants taken out hence the scars underneath each breast? Again, another question for the KCME :-( And yes, Judith is on Websleuth's, but from what I know her family doesn't feel this is a good match for Judith, and I respect her opinion on that. However, as I said Judith was my first thought when I looked at this woman's face, just something about it.

 

[Lil'E]

I do believe, like several of you all, that this case requires looking outside the proverbial box!! So, I sent an email to the Chief ME at King County, asking if the last digit in the phone number (9) was dropped and the first 9 numbers 212-569-554, investigated as a SS number, I also am thinking SS #s were still used as drivers license #s in 1996, it would be an easy enough rule out by the DL photo, if Jane had a DL???

Back to my perusing old newspaper articles!!

SS#'s were on drivers license in 1996 in the state of Ill. It is entirely possible that it was present on the State of Maryland DL as well, which is where a SS # that begins in 212 is issued from .

 

[Lil'E]

The use of IUDs has increased over the years but in the 90s it was still a relatively obscure form of birth control (i.e. not heavily marketed in the US) compared to say OCP and condoms. In NYC, however, many gynecologists implanted IUDs because NYC was the hub of a lot of IUD research. Lastly, IUDs were expensive in the 90s as it requires not only a doctor to implant it but regular checkups to check for continued proper placement and risk of infection. She would have been a regular patient with her gynecologist of that I have no doubt.
Chloe

Hey Chloe, I am giving my age away speaking about this but oh well..lol I had the copper CU7 IUD in the late 70's and early 80's and think they began to phased them out in the 90's. :thinking: I miscarried my twins in 82 as a result of this device, it was a nightmare. It became imbedded in my lady parts.

 

[GloSeattle]

I was under the impression she had her implants taken out hence the scars underneath each breast? Again, another question for the KCME :-( And yes, Judith is on Websleuth's, but from what I know her family doesn't feel this is a good match for Judith, and I respect her opinion on that. However, as I said Judith was my first thought when I looked at this woman's face, just something about it.

And just a Post Script thought about this breast surgery... so many of the old silicon breast implants leaked in the 90's they had to be removed... and along that line with the IUD's those were murder too with many complications and eventually were banned from being used due to them "drilling into your female parts" ... so yes, I think these things were probably done sometime in the 80's and then the implants removed (they would have contained serial numbers too), and the IUD would have been remove had she not decided on suicide.

 

[GloSeattle]

Another quick thought I had, in 1996 two rather severe crashes happened TWA 800 and one that crashed in the Florida Everglades... could that be why she has no family, they were on one of those flights? That's all the real newzy news I read during the months leading up to Mary taking her life.

 

[FigTree]

And just a Post Script thought about this breast surgery... so many of the old silicon breast implants leaked in the 90's they had to be removed... and along that line with the IUD's those were murder too with many complications and eventually were banned from being used due to them "drilling into your female parts" ... so yes, I think these things were probably done sometime in the 80's and then the implants removed (they would have contained serial numbers too), and the IUD would have been remove had she not decided on suicide.

I believe that the surgery was a breast reduction - in the 80's and even until now, the procedure hasnt changed a great deal - with scars under the breast and scars around the nipple.

Illustrations:
http://www.drzevon.com/procedures/breast/breast-reduction/breast-reduction-illustrations/

JMO