Zodiac Killer

[morf13]

The latest thing to come out is that the writing identified as the Author's Father's, and linked to zodiac, is not his writing but that of the Pastor that married them. The sample was taken from a marriage certificate.

 

[minazoe]

Spoiler Alert...

Things get vague at the end, conspiracy..etc...no answer on DNA, test back logged etc...

Still, highly compelling...the guy who could confer on the mikado is dead...the mother is not completely reliable..., and you wonder if the author went down a rabbit hole...but at the same time...this person is a known felon and has too many potential fits in a row to be ignored....

He was a known guy with a personal axe to grind with several papers...also he was spectacularly cunning and a forger of historical documents, so I think pressure should be applied to rule him out.

MOO...

 

[i.b.nora]

The latest thing to come out is that the writing identified as the Author's Father's, and linked to zodiac, is not his writing but that of the Pastor that married them. The sample was taken from a marriage certificate.

I was going to ask for a link to your claim but decided to look for it myself. I see you, or someone who uses similar phrases, called someone on the phone and they said ... blah, blah, blah.

http://blog.sfgate.com/crime/2014/05/22/zodiac-suspects-sex-scandal-shocks-cops/

"And about that handwriting: The document that Stewart says formed the core of his book’s forensics analysis is also in question — and that has longtime Zodiac theorist Mike Rodelli of New Jersey in a huff.

Stewart writes that an analyst matched the writing on his parents’ marriage certificate to that of the Zodiac’s, but a manager at the church that issued the certificate says the document was actually filled out by the church’s priest.

“That’s not the father’s handwriting, I’m sure of it,” said Audrey Phelps, administrator at St. Paul’s United Methodist Church in Reno, Nev. “It’s Reverend Edward Fliger’s (the priest who signed the certificate). He always filled those out. I laughed when I saw it in that book.”

Rodelli called the church on a hunch, heard from Phelps, then called The Chronicle. He has his own carefully researched theory that the Zodiac is a prominent San Francisco businessman who recently died, and he said the book’s contention was “an abomination that is giving everyone (theorists like him) a bad name.”

“I am offended by the way in which this entire book was thrust upon the public with no advance notice and, especially, no vetting of the evidence before other researchers familiar with the case,” he said. “…This book reeks of opportunism disguised as truth.”

Stewart sighed when told of the doubts on the handwriting. “My mother said he filled out the documents,” he said. “I say Van Best filled it (the certificate) out and Fliger didn’t.”"​

The more I hear about this book and the writer's theory, the more it interests me. But, what do I know? Nothing, according to you.

 

[minazoe]

Can more examples from reverend Filger be obtained?

 

[Annie1004]

Pretty compelling evidence that the Pastor filled out that actual marriage certificate. The application for the certificate was more than likely completed by EVB.

I.b.nora, I read the book and couldn't put it down. The story of Gary Stewart looking for his birth father was very interesting; the Z claims, not so much. But then I am well-versed, and grew up in the area during Z's reign. It makes for a fascinating who dunnit. Never thought it would have gone this long without being solved. Many have tried, though.

I would need a DNA match or a solid piece of evidence (the hood, Stine's shirt, definitive fingerprint) to be convinced.

 

[minazoe]

Annie, I found it interesting that there are so many mix and match characters in SF at that heady time, There were a lot of super weirdos around back then, the mansoners, the freaky acid head political conspiracy dudes, furry freak brothers, even the movie theater connection shows up in the Zodiac book...all these guys out there , lots of brilliant Berkeley drop outs and professional students...lots of cracker jacks with big educations, and random money...my husband was growing up in the Bay Area at the time...

So it's of particular interest...

 

[Annie1004]

Annie, I found it interesting that there are so many mix and match characters in SF at that heady time, There were a lot of super weirdos around back then, the mansoners, the freaky acid head political conspiracy dudes, furry freak brothers, even the movie theater connection shows up in the Zodiac book...all these guys out there , lots of brilliant Berkeley drop outs and professional students...lots of cracker jacks with big educations, and random money...my husband was growing up in the Bay Area at the time...

So it's of particular interest...

Ask your husband about the Zebra murders - something like 14 killed, many injured. Then we had the Peoples Temple (Jim Jones), Harvey Milk and George Moscone, Black Panthers, Patty Hearst and the SLA, etc., all in the 1970's when I first moved here from Davis. And that doesn't touch the 1960s (the music in particular). I wanted to go to Cal, but Berkeley in the sixties was a no-no per my parents.

San Francisco has always attracted unique individuals and causes. So many of the so-called "hippies" turned into capitalists and ended up like their parents in the long run. Heady, fun times, but money really DID matter.

 

[chlban]

I am 70% through the Kindle book. Agreed -- very interesting book that I haven't put down since noon today.

That being said, so far I haven't read anything that is a smoking gun or unknown clue. And until the SFPD, et al. declares officially even a partial DNA or fingerprint match (from Stine's cab?), then I will continue with my long-held skepticism.

I still hold out hope that the Zodiac's identity will be revealed in my lifetime, but don't see it being EVB, Jr.

You are more optimistic than I am. I don't believe his identity will ever be revealed. I think he is very likely already dead and that his family likely hid the evidence of who he was.

While I do think the photo is a good match, that doesn't really mean much. Put 1960's style glasses on 100 men and you would likely get about 70 of them that match just as well. Additionally, if I recall correctly, even the eyewitness (including the two survivors) descriptions don't all match, with the one exception that they all agree he wore glasses.

I was growing up in So. CA when the murders were taking place and they scared the bejeesus out of me. I would love to know the truth.

 

[chlban]

I am going to have to go look up pictures of the verified female victims again. I remember Darlene's appearance and there is a similar look to the authors mother, but I don't recall the other two girls as looking like Darlene.

I will state, with no disrespect to anyone, that the fact that die hard Zodiac researchers are immediately dismissing this new book. I have found, in general, that they are usually so married to a particular suspect already, that anything that challenges that, is ignored. OTOH, they have seen the crazy claims from the other two nut jobs about their stepfathers being the Zodiac-including the woman who's actual bio dad as JFK, according to her, so yeah, she's credible.

I don't have a particular theory. In fact, I don't believe the Zodiac was any of the "popular" suspects.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

As a member both here and at the Zodiackiller.com MB, I can say that we have seen far too many claims of solving the case that do not meet the challenge of scrutiny. Deborah Perez claimed that her stepfather was Zodiac, but was exposed as delusional. Dennis Kaufman claimed his stepfather was Zodiac, but he was found to be falsifying the origins of photographic "evidence" and was exposed as a fraud.

Both the the above step-daddy Zodiacs were confirmed through handwriting comparisons by certified document examiners - just like EVB has been "confirmed by the author's CDE. At least Perez's and Kaufman's CDEs looked at their suspect's real handwriting before coming to wrong conclusions. Through the excellent work of Morf13 and Mike Rodelli, it is apparent that the new "match" was made to the wrong person's handwriting.

One then has to wonder, if someone can make such a clear blunder on a central part of their case, what else have they screwed up that isn't quite so apparent yet?

 

[HMSHood]

If I recall about the Zodiac Killer, he targeted couples. He has shades of Elliot Rodger as he is probably highly narcissistic and envious with a vindictive mindset.

 

[chlban]

As stated, I think the Zoidac will end up like Jack the Ripper. In another 100 years everyone will still be speculating about the "known" suspects. I do not believe it is any of the "known" suspects, although I have at one time or another seen very convincing arguments about most of them.

After the identity of BTK was revealed, I became convinced that that Zodiac was probably a very similar story. In that I mean that while everyone is looking for the freak, the stand out crazy, Zodiac was likely simply going about his life which likely included a nuclear family. At least when he wasn't murdering people.

Also like BTK., he liked toying with the press and LE and I think would ultimately want his identity known when he died. However, I don't think his family would have wanted it known.

It's one thing to accuse a stepfather or a bio dad that was never part of your life, of being a sadistic serial killer. It is quite another, IMO, to admit that your dad, the man that raised you and that you loved, is one.

After living 58 years of my life without knowing I was adopted I recently had a phone conversation with the man that is listed on BC as my bio dad. He means nothing to me.No offense to him, he says he never knew about me and that may be true. I am not angry at him, he just means nothing. IF I were to find out he was a serial killer? Other than wondering if I might have inherited some of the "crazy" I cannot imagine it really being all that difficult to accept.

However, my "dad" the man that raised me, loved me and taught me so many things about life? The man, long since dead, whose examples of honesty and integrity I still try to live by? It would devastate me to find out that he had ever stolen $10 bucks in his lifetime, much less killed someone. Much less been a notorious serial killer.

I find it completely believable that the real Zodiacs child or children covered up whatever "proof" he left behind. Based on the timing and the age estimates, particularly if the Police Officers estimate was close he would almost certainly be dead by now. I don't think we will ever knonw the truth.

 

[STANDREID]

And, then there's Hodel.

 

[chlban]

And, then there's Hodel.

Yeah, what a joke he turned out to be. Seems his daddy killed everyone from the Black Dahlia to the Zodiac Victims.

I forget, was daddy on the grassy knoll in Dallas too?

 

[GoBrewers]

I just cannot get over how many people love the idea of making money off the suffering of others. Speculation does not = facts.

 

[Onaliv]

Aside from the obvious DNA question, here are my observations/questions:

Q: Was EVB ever a suspect during the original investigation?

Q: Did EVB have any history with owning firearms?

Q: What kind of cars did EVB own during the timeframe of the Zodiac killings?

Q: What size of shoe did EVB wear?

Q: Besides selling antique books did EVB have any employment? How did he support himself?

Have a hard time seeing EVB as The Zodiac when viewing the early '60s footage from court appearance on Internet, hardly looks like the killer we expected all these years, but that's just my opinion.

Does anybody have input on these areas?

 

[chlban]

I just cannot get over how many people love the idea of making money off the suffering of others. Speculation does not = facts.

Of course it doesn't, but isn't speculation what we are all doing here?
Cases like this are speculated on forever, just look at Jack The Ripper, Lizzie Borden, Dahlia.

Unfortunaely it appears Zodiac will end up the same way. Unless, of course, the DNA matches. I don't expect it will.

 

[minazoe]

I can't get over his name appearing in the cipher bottom line.

 

[Donamena]

Annie, I found it interesting that there are so many mix and match characters in SF at that heady time, There were a lot of super weirdos around back then, the mansoners, the freaky acid head political conspiracy dudes, furry freak brothers, even the movie theater connection shows up in the Zodiac book...all these guys out there , lots of brilliant Berkeley drop outs and professional students...lots of cracker jacks with big educations, and random money...my husband was growing up in the Bay Area at the time...

So it's of particular interest...

Mine was an intern at the time...wild place he says. Hot mess of psychos, alternatives, straights, not so straights, weird religions, beliefs...open air asylum

 

[Donamena]

I just cannot get over how many people love the idea of making money off the suffering of others. Speculation does not = facts.

Like Hodel? Sometimes he stretches his point, as in some of the photos. But, his father was a suspect.